Question Is the Coulthirst contract killing the team spirit...

[davewebbsbrain]

Apologies, you are right. But I still stand by my point that we didn't adopt any different tactic despite Corr not being in the team, and it didn't play to Coulthirst's strengths.

Out of interest, can you explain to me why he's scored 19 goals in 29 appearances for Spurs under-18's and under-21's, 1 goal in 2 appearances for England under-19's, a goal in a game at Orient, 2 in 4 appearances at Torquay, but hasn't found the net once with us in 8 games?

Has he forgotten how to play football overnight? Or are we surely to blame for the fact he's scored everywhere else but here?

If he can't play the way we set up then he needs to go back and PB needs to get someone who can.

 

[RobM]

Payne isn't exactly tall but at least he challenges in the air. Coulthirst doesn't even try.

 

[amsemp]

If he can't play the way we set up then he needs to go back and PB needs to get someone who can.

Who can play the way we set up then? Apart from Corr towards the end of last season, no striker has performed under Phil's system. Coulthirst isn't the first and won't be the last. We need some serious work in the final third otherwise Shaq doesn't stand a chance.

 

[davewebbsbrain]

Who can play the way we set up then? Apart from Corr towards the end of last season, no striker has performed under Phil's system. Coulthirst isn't the first and won't be the last. We need some serious work in the final third otherwise Shaq doesn't stand a chance.

You made the point that Coulthirst was this goal scoring machine elsewhere and now isn't with us and it's Southend's fault. We scored goals last season, Hurst, Corr etc so we can do it. If Shaq can't adapt, we need someone that will.

Shaq is a pro and I dare say has had a fair amount of high balls in the past. He just doesn't seem to want to challenge. As someone said earlier, Payne is diminutive but always challenges for the ball

 

[amsemp]

You made the point that Coulthirst was this goal scoring machine elsewhere and now isn't with us and it's Southend's fault. We scored goals last season, Hurst, Corr etc so we can do it. If Shaq can't adapt, we need someone that will.

Shaq is a pro and I dare say has had a fair amount of high balls in the past. He just doesn't seem to want to challenge. As someone said earlier, Payne is diminutive but always challenges for the ball

Since last season, Corr, Eastwood, Barnard, Cowan, Woodrow, Reid, Loza and Coulthirst have scored 26 goals between them in a combined 160 appearances. That doesn't really showcase Brown's system being great for strikers does it?

 

[rlb999]

This is where we over analyze - it's a thread based on complete speculation. Very Daily Mail.

We've had loads of loans in over recent seasons, as have most clubs at our level. A premier club isn't going to let a promising youngster go on loan without some reassurance he will play - it's common sense really so don't be surprised by it. One solution would be to not loan anyone, but then we won't have players like Egan and Sokolik.

Equally a premier league kid earns more than a league 2 pro - that's the way football is and it's probably getting worse this season because of the recent injection of cash at the top level. It must be really hard for someone like Woodrow to come to a club like Southend knowing he's earning more than the rest of the squad, but also knowing he has less experience than them too. It must be a constant battle to prove he's not a big time Charlie.

The Coulthirst contract will be no worse than the Woodrow contract or the Sokolik contract or the Egan contract or the Kiernan contract or the Loza contract. Our financial position hasn't radically changed, so the deals done will be pretty similar. If team spirit is being killed (and I've seen no sign of it this season) it's something else that's killing it. Possibly the fans having a nervous breakdown after 6 games?

 

[davewebbsbrain]

Since last season, Corr, Eastwood, Barnard, Cowan, Woodrow, Reid, Loza and Coulthirst have scored 26 goals between them in a combined 160 appearances. That doesn't really showcase Brown's system being great for strikers does it?

I agree with you totally on that.

I don't think that Coulthirst is putting 100% in though. He could be so much better as the stats show. Just because a player is a few inches taller than you, doesn't mean you can't challenge. Coulthirst doesn't look interested enough by the look of it

 

[mrsblue]

This is where we over analyze - it's a thread based on complete speculation. Very Daily Mail.

We've had loads of loans in over recent seasons, as have most clubs at our level. A premier club isn't going to let a promising youngster go on loan without some reassurance he will play - it's common sense really so don't be surprised by it. One solution would be to not loan anyone, but then we won't have players like Egan and Sokolik.

Equally a premier league kid earns more than a league 2 pro - that's the way football is and it's probably getting worse this season because of the recent injection of cash at the top level. It must be really hard for someone like Woodrow to come to a club like Southend knowing he's earning more than the rest of the squad, but also knowing he has less experience than them too. It must be a constant battle to prove he's not a big time Charlie.

The Coulthirst contract will be no worse than the Woodrow contract or the Sokolik contract or the Egan contract or the Kiernan contract or the Loza contract. Our financial position hasn't radically changed, so the deals done will be pretty similar. If team spirit is being killed (and I've seen no sign of it this season) it's something else that's killing it. Possibly the fans having a nervous breakdown after 6 games?

Disagree entirely.

These loan guys do not need to justify their selection,They could be playing at 85% of their capacity yet they know the next game they will get further pitch time,If they score bucket loads they will be off to bigger things.

 

[united we stand]

Seeing as people are comparing Shaq and Payne did anyone see Payne win anything in the air? I made a point of counting with Shaq in the second half and he actually did win two in the air, which seems to be two more than anyone thinks ( Including me, hence why I counted)

 

[Mark2907]

Question, if it is true that we are obliged the play Coulthirst, every game, you have got to be a pretty special player to be accepted by your teams mates that you keep out of the starting line up........and it that is the problem, he isn't.

Just to be clear, its very unlikely we would agree to a contract which guarantees Shaq pkays every game. Usually there will be financial incentives to encourage clubs to play the loanees e.g. we pay 100% of wages if he doesnt play, 75% for less than 90 minutes and 50% if we play him for the entire match.

Personally i would send him back now.

 

[davewebbsbrain]

Seeing as people are comparing Shaw and Payne did anyone see Payne win anything in the air? I made a point of counting with Shaw in second half and he actually did win two in the air, which seems to be two more than anyone thinks ( Including me, hence why I counted)

Who is Shaw?

What I did see is Payne play numerous quality balls, use the ball intelligently, create space for himself and team mates, bring other team members into play and score a good goal. If he didn't win any headers, I'm not too bothered

 

[Angell Delight]

I'm literally losing the plot with all the Coulthirst criticism. He's proven he can score goals at Spurs, Orient, Torquay and England u-19's, but he comes to us and turns into a donkey? No!

I could've counted on one hand (maybe even on no hands) how many decent chances we created for Shaq today. How you expect anyone to score without any decent service is beyond me. The dreadful Atkinson cross on the break sent him over the edge and you could see his frustration with how he reacted. He looked seriously ****ed off when he was subbed and I felt for him. He's taking a hell of a lot of flack when he's being let down by his team mates.

Maybe if Phil Brown stops playing him on the wing and actually sets the team up to provide him with service, he'll be more dangerous. Anyone with any decent understanding of football can see there's a player in there, but a striker without service is like a car without petrol. It's not gonna do **** all!

I guarantee you Shaq will be one of the players who doesn't do it for us and then joins someone else on loan and scores a hatfull. Sad truth is, that will be OUR fault and not his.

Give that man a medal. Excellent post. :clap: #SpotOn

 

[Chris Powell's mate]

Have seen Coulthirst three times; hasn't impressed in any one, but there again neither has anyone else up top.
A couple of chances taken and we would have coasted today.
Assuppliers, Atkinson and Leonard were abysmal. I'm willing to bet the former survived because he ran around more.

 

[buffalowolf]

All the arguements about SHAQ and the contract etc ,are to me off the mark,i know i dont get to see SUFC play but i do get to read all the threads on the games ,and from my vantage point ,i think the fault lays with PB and the system hes playing,maybe ( i dont know ) but maybe hes playing the same system with SUFC as he did with Hull.Trouble is with HUll he needed to play more defensively to try to keep them in the Premiershite, with SUFC he needs to implore a more attacking system,and start to play to our strikers strengths, then just maybe Shaq will score goals,he has with everyone else hes played for.Remember people Shaq is just 19 years old and we have some very useful 19year olds in our squad ,dont kill their enthusiasm by slagging off at them , look at what PB needs to do to bring out the best in them ,each has talent, same goes with Leonard , Clifford ,Thompson etc they are all young ,

 

[Barry.C]

Crouch was 8 foot 3 inches but could barely get off the ground. Mind you he didnt have too?.Equally lots of vertically challenged folk can leap like gazelles.It depends whether you have grasshopper legs and a head for heights

 

[united we stand]

Who is Shaw?What I did see is Payne play numerous quality balls, use the ball intelligently, create space for himself and team mates, bring other team members into play and score a good goal. If he didn't win any headers, I'm not too bothered

Maybe my point wasn't clear. Posters are explicitly stating that Payne is challenging for headers and shaq is not. I am simply challenging that statement. I am not referring to any other comparisons . Shaq won two headers in the second half for sure, how many did Payne win? I agree that in general his challenging is rubbish , but people are implying he wins nothing which is factualy inaccurate

 

[southendkid]

Is there any actual proof of this alleged contract clause? All our strikers are rubbish atm it's not like Corr and Barney are getting goals, at least Shaq is getting some shots in (although yesterday he was terrible) I'm not that surprised he is getting picked at the moment because he is the best of a bad bunch.

 

[davewebbsbrain]

Maybe my point wasn't clear. Posters are explicitly stating that Payne is challenging for headers and shaq is not. I am simply challenging that statement. I am not referring to any other comparisons . Shaq won two headers in the second half for sure, how many did Payne win? I agree that in general his challenging is rubbish , but people are implying he wins nothing which is factualy inaccurate

Payne challenged headers plenty of times yesterday. He is diminutive as we all know so may well not have won any BUT the point is he gave 100% and wanted and tried to win every header. Coulthirst, on the other hand, didn't look overly interested.

For me, this conversation would be the same whether Coulthirst was our player or not. If he isn't giving his all, he shouldn't be wearing the shirt. I couldn't care less if there is/isn't a clause saying he has to play. I want to see the best 11 on the pitch and that they give 100%.

Second half, nobody gave anywhere near 100% and they all let the fans down big time

 

[OldBlueLady]

Second half, nobody gave anywhere near 100% and they all let the fans down big time

Interesting. I wonder if the likes of White, Prosser, Coker, Clifford and Atkinson would agree that they failed to give 100%?

 

[Jedi Shrimper]

Coulthirst is a young player, that judging by his record elsewhere has something about him. What he needs is something to go in - even off it's his backside and could well then go on a run. If people are slaughtering him for not scoring, why on earth would Brown risk destroying one of our own youngsters (Williams, Layne, Brown) confidence by playing them?