Jeremy Corbyn's Labour

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

What history book did you read because most of that statement is bollocks. And Livingston has history with his nazi comparisons so I don't think he was taken out of context at all.

Good on Corbyn for acting so quickly.

He has acted quickly on this and though Ken has done some good work in the past he has become a liability and the Party is bigger than one man so I'm quite pleased to see him go.

 

[Benfleet A1]

Yes thanks for reminding me, Hitler hated the Jews. You still haven't explained what bit of my post is bollocks.

Tell you what, I'll not bother again. All of your post was bollocks, Hitler wanted to wipe out the entire jewish race, not send them to a utopia jewish state and if you want to believe anything different then feel you boots. I'm done.

 

[londonblue]

I would agree with you there and TBH, I not sure I did.
Genuine question for you - would you be considered "anti zionist" and all that could imply if you disagreed with the Israeli government on land settlement policy? My point being, you can support the state of Israel without agreeing with it's policies of the current government.

Exactly.

Zionism doesn't mean different things to different people. It has one aim, and one aim alone. That aim is a state of Israel, i.e. a Jewish homeland. Anything else has been added by other people for their own benefits. (Mostly racists who want to make out that there is some kind of worldwide Jewish conspiracy to rule the world.)

So TUIB says he's an anti-Zionist, i.e. he doesn't believe the Jewish people should have a homeland, and (by extension) certainly not in the Middle East. That's fine, he's entitled to his opinion however profoundly wrong I believe him to be.

However I think we have now exposed not only his hypocrisy, but also his lies:

(Sorry but I'll go to my grave thinking of myself as a friend of Israel's).

 

[rigsby]

Tell you what, I'll not bother again. All of your post was bollocks, Hitler wanted to wipe out the entire jewish race, not send them to a utopia jewish state and if you want to believe anything different then feel you boots. I'm done.

Probably for the best, your beginning to sound like John Mann.

After the Nazis come to power, up until about 1937 some 60% of German Jews, around 300,000 left/were forced from Germany. At that stage Hitler was not to fussed where they went. After that some were able to bribe their way out, if they had the means. The Final solution was not agreed until about 1942.

Everybody has a different slant on the word Zionism, to some it does not just mean a utopian Jewish state.

 

[Benfleet A1]

Probably for the best, your beginning to sound like John Mann.

After the Nazis come to6 power, up until about 1937 some 60% of German Jews, around 300,000 left/were forced from Germany. At that stage Hitler was not to fussed where they went. After that some were able to bribe their way out, if they had the means. The Final solution was not agreed until about 1942.

Everybody has a different slant on the word Zionism, to some it does not just mean a utopian Jewish state.

It's estimated that 140- 180,000 german jews were murdered, no oppotunity of zion for those poor *******s was there. And I'd rather sound like John Mann than a Marxist has-been trying to justify racism within his party.

 

[rigsby]

It's estimated that 140- 180,000 german jews were murdered, no oppotunity of zion for those poor *******s was there. And I'd rather sound like John Mann than a Marxist has-been trying to justify racism within his party.

Yes nobody's defending what happened in Germany and I couldn't care less what happens to Ken or his newts.

But all I said was this piece of halibut was fit for Jehovah.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Exactly.

Zionism doesn't mean different things to different people. It has one aim, and one aim alone. That aim is a state of Israel, i.e. a Jewish homeland. Anything else has been added by other people for their own benefits. (Mostly racists who want to make out that there is some kind of worldwide Jewish conspiracy to rule the world.)

So TUIB says he's an anti-Zionist, i.e. he doesn't believe the Jewish people should have a homeland, and (by extension) certainly not in the Middle East. That's fine, he's entitled to his opinion however profoundly wrong I believe him to be.

However I think we have now exposed not only his hypocrisy, but also his lies:

I have never said anything like that.In fact, it's a gross distortion of what I do believe.

I've always believed in a two state solution for Israel.As do many others.

Your own view of what Zionism consists of is an exceptionally narrow one.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

"At the same time, supporters of Corbyn fear that the issue of antisemitism is being used to undermine his leadership"


http://www.theguardian.com/international

This is the crux of the matter, in my opinion.

 

[londonblue]

I have never said anything like that.In fact it's a gross distortion of what I do believe.

I've always believed in a two state solution for Israel.As do many others.

But you're an anti-Zionist, and therefore don't believe Israel has a right to be there. I also quoted you telling us you're a friend of Israel, but you deny its right to exist. You have some very screwed up views and I suspect you don't like them being exposed.

Your own view of what Zionism consists of is an exceptionally narrow one.

Hence my original question about what Zionism means to you. Because my view of Zionism isn't a narrow one, it is the only one. As I said, people may broaden the scope to suit their own (usually racist) means, but Zionism is simply the belief that the Jewish people have a right to a homeland.

 

[londonblue]

"At the same time, supporters of Corbyn fear that the issue of antisemitism is being used to undermine his leadership"


http://www.theguardian.com/international

This is the crux of the matter, in my opinion.

Then he needs to do something about it, and be seen to do something about it. I assume therefore you applaud the stance he took against that idiot Ken Livingston then?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

He has acted quickly on this and though Ken has done some good work in the past he has become a liability and the Party is bigger than one man so I'm quite pleased to see him go.

He'll be back,mark my words.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

But you're an anti-Zionist, and therefore don't believe Israel has a right to be there. I also quoted you telling us you're a friend of Israel, but you deny its right to exist. You have some very screwed up views and I suspect you don't like them being exposed.

I have never said that I don't believe that the state of Israel has no right to exist.That is a lie.What I have said is that I believe in a two state solution to the problem of Israel.

Hence my original question about what Zionism means to you. Because my view of Zionism isn't a narrow one, it is the only one. As I said, people may broaden the scope to suit their own (usually racist) means, but Zionism is simply the belief that the Jewish people have a right to a homeland.

As I said,I don't subscribe to what your narrow view of what Zionism consists of.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Then he needs to do something about it, and be seen to do something about it. I assume therefore you applaud the stance he took against that idiot Ken Livingston then?

I'm quite happy for there to be an enquiry into KL's comments.As I said before, I'd be suprised if Ken and the MP for Bradford,Naz Shah, aren't exonerated and re-instated.

 

[Uncle Leo]

Read this by Gaby Hinsliff in The Guardian and for some reason it reminded me a bit of this thread....

"But there is another possible explanation, and that’s the belief found close to many leftwing hearts that they, and they alone, are the good guys – the champions of equality and fairness – and therefore incapable of prejudice. They don’t need to question their assumptions, or take a long hard look in the mirror, because the racists are the other guys."

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Nazi-Zionist Agreement

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Read this by Gaby Hinsliff in The Guardian and for some reason it reminded me a bit of this thread....

"But there is another possible explanation, and that’s the belief found close to many leftwing hearts that they, and they alone, are the good guys – the champions of equality and fairness – and therefore incapable of prejudice. They don’t need to question their assumptions, or take a long hard look in the mirror, because the racists are the other guys."

I subscribe to this. The Labour Party is inherently anti-racist. Why would you join the Labour Party - an anti-racist party, if you were racist.


I get that your quote is taking the **** out of people like me for having those thoughts but that has to be my standpoint. It would be like a member of UKIP tweeting about how they were concerned about post exit trade deals - surely you'd just leave the party.


Labour Party members being anti the policies of the Israeli government - now that makes complete sense to me, but people need to be careful with the language they use to express that or they risk sounding like the kind of person that has no place in the Labour Party.

 

[Gremlin]

What a terrible week it's been for the Labour party. If the man this thread is supposed to be about was the strong leader many hoped he would be then the last few pages of this thread wouldn't have been written.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Read this by Gaby Hinsliff in The Guardian and for some reason it reminded me a bit of this thread....

"But there is another possible explanation, and that’s the belief found close to many leftwing hearts that they, and they alone, are the good guys – the champions of equality and fairness – and therefore incapable of prejudice. They don’t need to question their assumptions, or take a long hard look in the mirror, because the racists are the other guys."

So you right-wingers are really the good guys? Thanks for that.

Nazi-Zionist Agreement

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement

So Hitler was a Zionist then? :winking:

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

So you right-wingers are really the good guys? Thanks for that.



So Hitler was a Zionist then? :winking:

no comment, I just posted that up as a point of interest. I do think there are some grey areas in the argument on that

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

What a terrible week it's been for the Labour party. If the man this thread is supposed to be about was the strong leader many hoped he would be then the last few pages of this thread wouldn't have been written.

He can't tell people what to say, but he can deal with people that say things that are deemed unacceptable - and that is what he has done.