Safe standing at Fossetts a no go?

[OldBlueLady]

Certainly worth talking about at the exhibition, that's exactly what we need to be getting across.

 

[leeblue]

I reckon a safe standing...petition/survey would garner very little support. How many times did we try to get the north bank going again......poor numbers unfortunately. Modern footy fans want a seat....apart from a few

 

[Liam AAS]

I reckon a safe standing...petition/survey would garner very little support. How many times did we try to get the north bank going again......poor numbers unfortunately. Modern footy fans want a seat....apart from a few

Certainly not asking for a huge section. 15% of 21,000 is 3,150 (so call it 3,000)? That's still 18,000 seats.

 

[leeblue]

Certainly not asking for a huge section. 15% of 21,000 is 3,150 (so call it 3,000)? That's still 18,000 seats.

I am fully behind standing. I grew up on football terraces from early 80s. I never asked to sit at football. Would be great to have a section like that.

 

[* ORM *]

Let's have a reality check here shall we. Standing is never going to be permitted again in the upper echelons of football. We've been talking about a new stadium for 30 years. We're not even off the starting blocks, AGAIN! Converting terrace to seats costs money. Much as I miss the old days terraces are a thing of the past and we may as well deal with that fact.

 

[Crowstone Crevette]

Although i hate sitting at football i am not sure that this will achieve what people are really after. Even if rail seats were allowed it wouldn't get us back to the days that some are hoping for.

Pre Taylor Report you bought a ticket for the terrace of your choice, not a 'square yard' of that terrace that had been pre designated 'your seat' for that match, but anywhere you liked. Down the front by the wall, or further back to get a better perspective on the match.

You bought your ticket and met up with your mates at your usual spot. Not designated. Tickets didn't have to be bulk bought in advance. It just happened. If someone didn't make it, no problem. If friends of friends turned up on the day, great, so be it.

THIS IS NOT THE SAME.
· You will still have to buy a ticket in advance.
· You will have a designated spot to stand in and be restricted to it.
· You will (probably) not be able to buy subsequent tickets for standing space next to, behind, or in front of you for friends etc that decide to come after you have purchased your ticket.
· *You will not be able to mingle with your friends (because of above).
· You will be in the same situation as you would be if you were seated i.e. stuck in one position, with the people who have bought tickets around you, who are not necessarily the people you want to share the match with.

* As an example (and please i am not having a go at TBV).........but would they all stand in there predesignated seat space / area? Or would they stand next to the person they came in with/were best mates with etc. I know what i would do.

IT DOESN'T WORK!!!

As I stated at the outset i fully support the campaign for standing at football matches but i fear that it will never return as i want it and believe many of you want too.

As someone astutely said at the beginning of this debate - decision were taken too quickly. And the removal of fences would have resolved some of the issues that were raised after the tragedy in April '89 at Hillsborough. If some thought and time had been taken, rather than the knee jerk reaction that Thatcher 'demanded', i believe that some form of terracing without rail seats could have been possible. Standing is not inherently more dangerous than seating. Standing areas can be safe areas, without the need to restrict people to 1 square yard of predetermined terrace.

Good luck with the campaign. I'll sign up!

But it will never be the same...

 

[danburyshrimper]

I ll probably aged around 98 by the time the stadium is built so i ll probably be unable to stand up anyway !

 

[Jai]

Surely there would be the same facility to have unreserved standing, much like seating at away games. I guess it would depend on the size of the section.

It wouldn't be the same as before, you're quite right. But it would be better than the only viable alternative, which is a soulless all-seater.

 

[Liam AAS]

Let's have a reality check here shall we. Standing is never going to be permitted again in the upper echelons of football. We've been talking about a new stadium for 30 years. We're not even off the starting blocks, AGAIN! Converting terrace to seats costs money. Much as I miss the old days terraces are a thing of the past and we may as well deal with that fact.

I don't believe that any of FF will be built with rail seating or any other form of safe standing section from the outset. However our best best is to convince the club and the architects to alter any existing designs for the ground to allow for their eventual installation.

The enquiry into the Hillsborough tragedy is still ongoing so I don't expect any legislative progress on this (the government only admitted 3 years ago!) but we can convey our wishes to the club and lobby for design alterations to the ground for the long term benefit of the fans and the club.

 

[ooh-andy-ansah]

I should add, I'd happily assist any argument from the Trust's perspective, but the lack of common courtesy exhibited towards my offers of free assistance to the Club in the past (both SK and RM) have left me feeling somewhat bitter and largely apathetic about the entire scheme.

The last thing RM will want is someone who knows what they are doing getting involved :winking:

 

[rigsby]

Although i hate sitting at football i am not sure that this will achieve what people are really after. Even if rail seats were allowed it wouldn't get us back to the days that some are hoping for.

Pre Taylor Report you bought a ticket for the terrace of your choice, not a 'square yard' of that terrace that had been pre designated 'your seat' for that match, but anywhere you liked. Down the front by the wall, or further back to get a better perspective on the match.

You bought your ticket and met up with your mates at your usual spot. Not designated. Tickets didn't have to be bulk bought in advance. It just happened. If someone didn't make it, no problem. If friends of friends turned up on the day, great, so be it.

THIS IS NOT THE SAME.
· You will still have to buy a ticket in advance.
· You will have a designated spot to stand in and be restricted to it.
· You will (probably) not be able to buy subsequent tickets for standing space next to, behind, or in front of you for friends etc that decide to come after you have purchased your ticket.
· *You will not be able to mingle with your friends (because of above).
· You will be in the same situation as you would be if you were seated i.e. stuck in one position, with the people who have bought tickets around you, who are not necessarily the people you want to share the match with.

* As an example (and please i am not having a go at TBV).........but would they all stand in there predesignated seat space / area? Or would they stand next to the person they came in with/were best mates with etc. I know what i would do.

IT DOESN'T WORK!!!

As I stated at the outset i fully support the campaign for standing at football matches but i fear that it will never return as i want it and believe many of you want too.

As someone astutely said at the beginning of this debate - decision were taken too quickly. And the removal of fences would have resolved some of the issues that were raised after the tragedy in April '89 at Hillsborough. If some thought and time had been taken, rather than the knee jerk reaction that Thatcher 'demanded', i believe that some form of terracing without rail seats could have been possible. Standing is not inherently more dangerous than seating. Standing areas can be safe areas, without the need to restrict people to 1 square yard of predetermined terrace.

Good luck with the campaign. I'll sign up!

But it will never be the same...

Agree with nearly all of your post as I grew up o the terraces. But you can't say it was a knee jerk reaction when we had 96 people killed at a football match. In 1989 we were serving our European ban because of the other tragedy that is never mentioned on Merseyside. There was, don't forget, the riot at Birmingham were someone was killed.

Sad fact is we have had some growing incidents of pitch invasion recently. We can't have fences so the FA will never allow terracing to return in the form that we all remember so fondly.

 

[Liam AAS]

Agree with nearly all of your post as I grew up o the terraces. But you can't say it was a knee jerk reaction when we had 96 people killed at a football match. In 1989 we were serving our European ban because of the other tragedy that is never mentioned on Merseyside. There was, don't forget, the riot at Birmingham were someone was killed.

Sad fact is we have had some growing incidents of pitch invasion recently. We can't have fences so the FA will never allow terracing to return in the form that we all remember so fondly.

Pitch invasions have always occurred I just think that now with so many games televised the perception is that they're on the rise. I think the most realistic thing we can hope for here is to imitate Spurs:

Their new ground has the same architects as FF and if we can convince the club to agree to a slightly amended design it shouldn't be too expensive in future to potentially install rail seating. Spurs's work with Populous should have mean that there's not a whole load of research and cost for us to do here.

 

[Blue_Shrimper1959]

Although i hate sitting at football i am not sure that this will achieve what people are really after. Even if rail seats were allowed it wouldn't get us back to the days that some are hoping for.

Pre Taylor Report you bought a ticket for the terrace of your choice, not a 'square yard' of that terrace that had been pre designated 'your seat' for that match, but anywhere you liked. Down the front by the wall, or further back to get a better perspective on the match.

You bought your ticket and met up with your mates at your usual spot. Not designated. Tickets didn't have to be bulk bought in advance. It just happened. If someone didn't make it, no problem. If friends of friends turned up on the day, great, so be it.

THIS IS NOT THE SAME.
· You will still have to buy a ticket in advance.
· You will have a designated spot to stand in and be restricted to it.
· You will (probably) not be able to buy subsequent tickets for standing space next to, behind, or in front of you for friends etc that decide to come after you have purchased your ticket.
· *You will not be able to mingle with your friends (because of above).
· You will be in the same situation as you would be if you were seated i.e. stuck in one position, with the people who have bought tickets around you, who are not necessarily the people you want to share the match with.

* As an example (and please i am not having a go at TBV).........but would they all stand in there predesignated seat space / area? Or would they stand next to the person they came in with/were best mates with etc. I know what i would do.

IT DOESN'T WORK!!!

As I stated at the outset i fully support the campaign for standing at football matches but i fear that it will never return as i want it and believe many of you want too.

As someone astutely said at the beginning of this debate - decision were taken too quickly. And the removal of fences would have resolved some of the issues that were raised after the tragedy in April '89 at Hillsborough. If some thought and time had been taken, rather than the knee jerk reaction that Thatcher 'demanded', i believe that some form of terracing without rail seats could have been possible. Standing is not inherently more dangerous than seating. Standing areas can be safe areas, without the need to restrict people to 1 square yard of predetermined terrace.

Good luck with the campaign. I'll sign up!

But it will never be the same...

I don't know much about safe standing, but why would this be the case? I went to the 1860 relegation play off in the Allianz earlier this year, went in the standing area (which is converted to seats for CL games), and wasn't restricted to a certain space or area? Could move about freely as I wanted.

 

[Taunton_Shrimper]

Although i hate sitting at football i am not sure that this will achieve what people are really after. Even if rail seats were allowed it wouldn't get us back to the days that some are hoping for.


THIS IS NOT THE SAME.
· You will still have to buy a ticket in advance.
· You will have a designated spot to stand in and be restricted to it.
· You will (probably) not be able to buy subsequent tickets for standing space next to, behind, or in front of you for friends etc that decide to come after you have purchased your ticket.
· *You will not be able to mingle with your friends (because of above).
· You will be in the same situation as you would be if you were seated i.e. stuck in one position, with the people who have bought tickets around you, who are not necessarily the people you want to share the match with.

* As an example (and please i am not having a go at TBV).........but would they all stand in there predesignated seat space / area? Or would they stand next to the person they came in with/were best mates with etc. I know what i would do.

IT DOESN'T WORK!!!

But it will never be the same...

jumping the gun a bit there mate, there is more than one design for safe standing available, these don't restrict you to your designated spot......

http://www.fsf.org.uk/campaigns/safe-standing/what-does-safe-standing-look-like/

 

[Jam_Man]

You will certainly have a designated seat, it will just be raised. However cant see how they can stop you moving around especially as there would be plenty of empty "seats".

 

[Liam AAS]

You will certainly have a designated seat, it will just be raised. However cant see how they can stop you moving around especially as there would be plenty of empty "seats".

Absolutely this, one of the most important lessons to learn from Hillsborough is that each area of the ground now has a capacity which absolutely must not be exceeded. "Open" terracing is a thing of the past.

 

[Jam_Man]

For those wanting safe standing looks like its something thats been added to the latest plan.

 

[Sherif H]

For those wanting safe standing looks like its something thats been added to the latest plan.

View attachment 4753

That isn't anything to do with safe-standing. It is referring to seat kills which will be marked down as 'restricted view' seating, presumably due to the profile of the adjacent stand, which will prevent seated spectators in that small section highlighted from enjoying an uninterrupted view of the game.

Let us be clear, the system that John Darch is referring to is based on a crappy and archaic system designed and manufactured by a German company that have partnered with a seating company in the UK - this is what they peddle on the roadshow. Reality is, it takes quite a lot of effort and expense to install this system, and it simply isn't intelligent or flexible enough to justify the additional expense at present.

We won't see any safe-standing (certainly of this type) at FF. Any fan calling for it needs to face up to the reality that this simply will not happen until the PL and FA buy in to the philosophy, and are presented with something more sophisticated than what John Darch is proposing.

 

[Jam_Man]

Well its talking about a seating system thats locked away and specifically labelled safe standing, so not what sure the difference is.

Bigger:





Where they talk about restricted viewing is actually the two areas next to the safe standing, not the safe standing area itself.

 

[Sherif H]

Well its talking about a seating system thats locked away and specifically labelled safe standing, so not what sure the difference is.

See my post on the FF thread - it won't happen. They are referring to a possible trial area should it become legal. We are a long way off.