Simon Dobbin Verdicts

[Massimo Giovanni]

Nobody has, as far as I am aware, tried to justify the brutal assault on Simon Dobbin. Anyone who did would surely have been unanimously shouted down by every posting member of this board.

The problem is that there is a huge divide amongst Zone members over the way the incident panned out on the day and the subsequent charges. There is little doubt that the behaviour of SOME Cambridge supporters on that day was the initial trigger for the scenes that ensued, however, there has been no evidence of any action being taken against those people, and yet there has clearly been some contrivance to get sentences on those who were (or, in some cases, weren't obviously) involved from the Southend point of view.

Some posters, early in this thread and on the closed ones DID seek to justify the assault by stating they "knew" things about SD, that he was a known trouble maker and that he had been ejected from the game- all untrue BUT not ever retracted. Others have tried to blame SD for having a few beers at the designated away pub and then walking to the train station!
There has been some Shouted down" of those posting the attempts at justification BUT it has not been by anywhere near to unanimous an understanding of the events related to the charges and convictions.

 

[Willie Coulson's Red Cheeks]

Thank you for the kind words 'WCRC'.

In fairness, I have never felt or said that I am anything other than appalled by what happened to him. I don't think anyone feels any different to that. I have said my piece on how awful the whole tragedy is on previous threads and on this thread, as well. Nothing will ever change my view on the fact that this is an appalling crime.

The thread, however, is about the verdicts and prison sentences handed down to the defendants and my concern, as outlined in my last post, is that if people are going to serve lengthy sentences for 'conspiracy' then the net is wider, on the day, than just those convicted.

In a Utopian society, I'd like the thugs who committed the assault to serve very lengthy sentences and anyone not involved to be considered as such. In a way, by staying collective as defendants, they each signed their own fate.

Where I sit uneasily is that if they are convicted for 'conspiracy' to cause general violence during the day, then others should have been, as well. If the convictions are for 'conspiracy' to attack Simon Dobbin in particular, then that's a different matter.

I don't like our club being dragged through this anymore than anyone else. If anything, by saying that other people indirectly contributed to this, I feel I am attempting to show that our club are not only intolerant of this behavior from those involved, but any behavior from others on a matchday, which drags us into this.

No-one has been convicted from Cambridge for 'conspiracy to commit violent disorder' yet without their behavior, none of this would have happened.

That doesn't condone any actions directly against Simon Dobbin. Those people should be convicted of the awful attack and serve appropriate sentences.

Andy, I respect your views and, as you always do, have articulated them eloquently. However, your post is just another which makes me feel uncomfortable because of your focus on "other events" that day. There may well come a time when those should be focused on but, personally, I don't think that time is now.

Too much damage has been done to the reputation of our club already and I sincerely believe that our focus now should be on sympathising with SD's situation, and that our anger should be solely directed towards the perpetrators of the crime and those who treated his wife and daughter so disgracefully after the guilty verdicts.

In my opinion, focus on anything else for the moment is too soon and will be perceived negatively by the outside world thereby damaging our club's reputation further.

 

[Oakley1]

if I remember right a few years ago there was a Brentford fan stabbed outside the same pub by some Southend Fans who came out of the Railway to have a go at them, after a cup game at Roots Hall......must be nice set of drinkers in this pub, I guess the reputation stays with you

 

[OldBlueLady]

Some posters, early in this thread and on the closed ones DID seek to justify the assault by stating they "knew" things about SD, that he was a known trouble maker and that he had been ejected from the game- all untrue BUT not ever retracted.

I believe there has actually been some evidence to this effect shown on FB, although I haven't seen it shared on here.

 

[united we stand]

I wasn't sure whether to write this , as I'm not convinced my message will be clear and understood Sometimes I really struggle to understand how some people see everything in black and white, and cant apply common sense ,or read an entire post and just focus on one aspect of it. In my line of work when something goes wrong we take everything apart and try and learn from it.

Not once has anyone on here said that SD deserved what he got, everyone is appalled, many no doubt have thought 'that could be me, or my dad, or my mate' etc etc. Everyone would be far happier if the guilty had admitted to what happened and/or those that know more told the truth.

Everyone is saying this must never happen again, and everyone agrees with that - well how do you make that happen?
That can only happen if you look at EVERTHING that happened and how you might do things differently in the future. There are things that IMO the police could have down differently that may have prevented this tradegy. Hopefully they have reviewed what happened and have considered this and have considered if they need to make changed going forward. Do I think think this in any way excuses the people who beat SD senseless- of course not, not in any way at all . Do I think its worth doing and discussing, in order to prevent this happening to anyone in the future- yes I do - and I 'think' that is what others are implying as well

 

[rigsby]

I wasn't sure whether to write this , as I'm not convinced my message will be clear and understood Sometimes I really struggle to understand how some people see everything in black and white, and cant apply common sense of read an entire post and just focus on one aspect of it. In my line of work when something goes wrong we take everything apart and try and learn from it.

Not once has anyone on here said that SD deserved what he got, everyone is appalled, many no doubt have thought 'that could be me, or my dad, or my mate' etc etc. Everyone would be far happier if the guilty had admitted to what happened and/or those that know more told the truth.

Everyone is saying this must never happen again, and everyone agrees with that - well how do you make that happen?
That can only happen if you look at EVERTHING that happened and how you might do things differently in the future. There are things that IMO the police could have down differently that may have prevented this tradegy. Hopefully they have reviewed what happened and have considered this and have considered if they need to make changed going forward. Do I think think this in any way excuses the people who beat SD senseless- of course not, not in any way at all . Do I think its worth doing and discussing, in order to prevent this happening to anyone in the future- yes I do - and I 'think' that is what others are implying as well

Glad you did sir, good post.

 

[Willie Coulson's Red Cheeks]

I wasn't sure whether to write this , as I'm not convinced my message will be clear and understood Sometimes I really struggle to understand how some people see everything in black and white, and cant apply common sense of read an entire post and just focus on one aspect of it. In my line of work when something goes wrong we take everything apart and try and learn from it.

Not once has anyone on here said that SD deserved what he got, everyone is appalled, many no doubt have thought 'that could be me, or my dad, or my mate' etc etc. Everyone would be far happier if the guilty had admitted to what happened and/or those that know more told the truth.

Everyone is saying this must never happen again, and everyone agrees with that - well how do you make that happen?
That can only happen if you look at EVERTHING that happened and how you might do things differently in the future. There are things that IMO the police could have down differently that may have prevented this tradegy. Hopefully they have reviewed what happened and have considered this and have considered if they need to make changed going forward. Do I think think this in any way excuses the people who beat SD senseless- of course not, not in any way at all . Do I think its worth doing and discussing, in order to prevent this happening to anyone in the future- yes I do - and I 'think' that is what others are implying as well

I agree with the thrust of your argument 100%. If you read my last post I never said that the events of the day should not be looked at. I stressed that in my opinion now is too soon.

 

[AndyT]

I was kind of with you Andy, until the penultimate paragraph. You can't know that "without their behaviour, none of this would have happened". Unfortunately we have our fair share of knuckle dragging numpties.

Your other point about others (presumably Cambridge 'fans') not being convicted for 'conspiracy'. Just because there was insufficient evidence or they weren't nicked at the time, or whatever reason doesn't stop the ones that have been convicted for conspiracy being guilty

Andy, I respect your views and, as you always do, have articulated them eloquently. However, your post is just another which makes me feel uncomfortable because of your focus on "other events" that day. There may well come a time when those should be focused on but, personally, I don't think that time is now.

Too much damage has been done to the reputation of our club already and I sincerely believe that our focus now should be on sympathising with SD's situation, and that our anger should be solely directed towards the perpetrators of the crime and those who treated his wife and daughter so disgracefully after the guilty verdicts.

In my opinion, focus on anything else for the moment is too soon and will be perceived negatively by the outside world thereby damaging our club's reputation further.

Some fair points and I must admit, some posts on here have helped in shaping my view slightly differently from when the thread began, which is exactly why it's been a very beneficial thread and I'm glad the mods have kept it open.

The earlier events, I agree, could be deemed to be irrelevant to the case being tried, but they were a key part of the prosecution case. They had painted a picture of the defendants as planning to cause trouble all-day and indeed called key witnesses from the events at the Spread Eagle, so it was they who introduced this as evidence, hence my feeling that if they are linking these events, then they are relevant and, as such, so are the parts played by others.

I do also believe these earlier events had everything to do with what happened to Simon Dobbin. We may have some "dodgy" supporters, but I can't think of a single case where supporters of another side have felt threatened, if they had come to Roots Hall to watch the match and nothing else.

I don't have any issue, for the moment, that the ones convicted aren't guilty. I remain unsure if they all are, as I don't know the exact circumstances at The Railway that evening, but I did experience what happened at the Spread Eagle and was witness to violent disorder in there.

 

[AndyT]

Not sure if this has been posted, but below is the CPS newspage on the convictions, for anyone who wants to see them :-

http://www.cps.gov.uk/news/latest_news/men-guilty-of-violent-attack-which-/

 

[Hotman]

I agree with the thrust of your argument 100%. If you read my last post I never said that the events of the day should not be looked at. I stressed that in my opinion now is too soon.

Or too late, depending on whether you look at it from the eyes of someone looking in, or the eyes of someone innocent looking out (from their prison cell).

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

Not sure if this has been posted, but below is the CPS newspage on the convictions, for anyone who wants to see them :-

http://www.cps.gov.uk/news/latest_news/men-guilty-of-violent-attack-which-/

IMO a poor report from the CPS; overly dramatic and giving a lie to intelligence and planning sophistication by the attackers, which I do not believe amounted to be much more than a few texts, lots of beer talk, and a fundamental lack of sense and moral fibre by a large mob group of hapless loser males.

As others have stated this sort of thing MUST never happen again AND some of the first "steps" on the route to hooliganism and thuggery are, sadly, witnessed by the glorification of the football thug culture of past eras (including on this site by some): and closer to home the non unilateral disdain for the idiots who keep letting of smoke bombs or perform in the manner of a few individuals such as the pitch invader/Col Ewe game fist thrower.

 

[Rattus Norvegicus]

IMO a poor report from the CPS; overly dramatic and giving a lie to intelligence and planning sophistication by the attackers, which I do not believe amounted to be much more than a few texts, lots of beer talk, and a fundamental lack of sense and moral fibre by a large mob group of hapless loser males.

As others have stated this sort of thing MUST never happen again AND some of the first "steps" on the route to hooliganism and thuggery are, sadly, witnessed by the glorification of the football thug culture of past eras (including on this site by some): and closer to home the non unilateral disdain for the idiots who keep letting of smoke bombs or perform in the manner of a few individuals such as the pitch invader/Col Ewe game fist thrower.

Yes. Quite a few posts on here over the years - hardly any posts (posters) who seem to understand the effect of violence and intimidation that results from their actions. :sad:

 

[Lord Football]

IMO a poor report from the CPS; overly dramatic and giving a lie to intelligence and planning sophistication by the attackers, which I do not believe amounted to be much more than a few texts, lots of beer talk, and a fundamental lack of sense and moral fibre by a large mob group of hapless loser males.

As others have stated this sort of thing MUST never happen again AND some of the first "steps" on the route to hooliganism and thuggery are, sadly, witnessed by the glorification of the football thug culture of past eras (including on this site by some): and closer to home the non unilateral disdain for the idiots who keep letting of smoke bombs or perform in the manner of a few individuals such as the pitch invader/Col Ewe game fist thrower.

That's because it is not a report. It is a press release. It is designed to give an overview of a situation. Journalists would then need to do their own research to construct their own story. All Government Departments and Agencies provide the same sort of thing regularly. Their size is limited, usually to one side of A4.

 

[Beefy]

I agree with the thrust of your argument 100%. If you read my last post I never said that the events of the day should not be looked at. I stressed that in my opinion now is too soon.

I really appreciate the eloquence with which you've put your point of view across, a point of view that I agree with almost entirely.

I agree that now isn't the time for the conversation about everything else that happened that day. It isn't too soon though, it's two and a half years too late. Complaints should have been made to the Police, statements offered and if the Police bungled an investigation into the conduct of any away fans or didn't bother pursuing Cambridge fans then they should have been criticised for that at the time.

This trial wasn't about everything that happened that day, it wasn't about the fight in the Spread, or the thugs from Cambridge who came to Essex and caused a day's worth of violence. This trial was about a single incident outside the Railway and the supposed 'conspiracy' that caused it.

From day one on here and Social Media there's been a narrative put forward that this was nothing to do with Southend United or it's fans. Originally in the threads at the time we were told that those arrested weren't even Southend fans and hadn't been to the game. Then we were told that Dobbin was a hooligan, had caused the issue and that the truth of that day would come out at trial. Now it's the fault of the Police.

We've all been to enough games over enough years to know that Roots Hall is a safe ground to visit. What happened that day was massively uncharacteristic of a match day in Southend and it isn't fair that our reputation as a club and a set of fans has been dragged down by everything that happened that day and I'd hope that the authorities, the club and everyone else learns from it but none of that is relevant to this trial and these verdicts.

A lot of things happened that day and a lot more people should have been arrested and punished but of all the altercations this trial was to do with one incident outside the Railway with one group of Cambridge fans trying to get to the train station. Everything else is just context and bringing it up just gives off the impression - whether it is the view of the individual or not - that what happened to Simon Dobbin was the direct fault of anyone other than the individual or individuals who beat him into a coma.

 

[Sentinel]

Today I put Simon Dobbin on the prayer list at my church.

I go to St Mary's Prittlewell which is the huge church just across the road from Roots Hall (effectively the church for Southend). It is the route he would have taken whilst walking from the Spread towards The Railway and the station and the church would have been one of the last things he'd have seen. I know that putting someone on a prayer list may not mean a lot to some people, but we're keeping him in our thoughts.

 

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

My overall view is that the two, three or four that went well over the top in leaving Simon Dobbin in that horrendous state didn't get a long enough sentence. The ones that didn't touch him or take any part in the fighting got too long a sentence. The police and paramedics did everything they could when they arrived at the Railway when the fighting happened. The nasty mob from Cambridge that started it all are culpable, even tho they all got of scot-free, without all that trouble they caused there would have been no revenge mob. The police could have been a bit more clued up and escorted the last remaining Cambridge fans from the Blue Boar, especially as the railway station is right opposite the Railway pub, a Southend stronghold. Surprisingly, the police didn't arrest any of the nasty Cambridge mob that infiltrated a pub, threw punches, bottles and glasses at peoples faces. There must have been CCTV. Then they didn't arrest anyone when they came back for round two before the game. Some even say they came back for round three after the game. They were not dealt with harshly enough and that made them worse. This in no way excuses the attackers of Simon Dobbin, but the events of the whole day all tie in, and only by talking about what happened will we hopefully see that it doesn't happen again to any other football fan visiting this town and our club.

 

[MK Shrimper]

My overall view is that the two, three or four that went well over the top in leaving Simon Dobbin in that horrendous state didn't get a long enough sentence. The ones that didn't touch him or take any part in the fighting got too long a sentence. The police and paramedics did everything they could when they arrived at the Railway when the fighting happened. The nasty mob from Cambridge that started it all are culpable, even tho they all got of scot-free, without all that trouble they caused there would have been no revenge mob. The police could have been a bit more clued up and escorted the last remaining Cambridge fans from the Blue Boar, especially as the railway station is right opposite the Railway pub, a Southend stronghold. Surprisingly, the police didn't arrest any of the nasty Cambridge mob that infiltrated a pub, threw punches, bottles and glasses at peoples faces. There must have been CCTV. Then they didn't arrest anyone when they came back for round two before the game. Some even say they came back for round three after the game. They were not dealt with harshly enough and that made them worse. This in no way excuses the attackers of Simon Dobbin, but the events of the whole day all tie in, and only by talking about what happened will we hopefully see that it doesn't happen again to any other football fan visiting this town and our club.

No they're not. The only ones culpable are the ones now inside. No "revenge" was required, no targetting of Cambridge fans needing a kicking because some of their supporters are knuckle dragging pond scum. Stop making excuses for violent thugs who just happen to support the same team as you.

 

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

No they're not. The only ones culpable are the ones now inside. No "revenge" was required, no targetting of Cambridge fans needing a kicking because some of their supporters are knuckle dragging pond scum. Stop making excuses for violent thugs who just happen to support the same team as you.

I never said revenge was required, I more or less said revenge was because. You surely can't deny that what happened would not have happened if not for the Cambridge mobs attacks earlier. I never condoned targetting of Cambridge fans. I actually said the ones that did it should have got a longer sentence. I have said the police made mistakes on the day, but it doesn't excuse the beating that Simon Dobbin got.

 

[Benfleet A1]

No they're not. The only ones culpable are the ones now inside. No "revenge" was required, no targetting of Cambridge fans needing a kicking because some of their supporters are knuckle dragging pond scum. Stop making excuses for violent thugs who just happen to support the same team as you.

And what about those jailed on the jumped up charge of conspiracy or the other one on habouring, are they pond scum as well? Is everyone who lives less moral life than you relegated to that level that you feel the need to insult with such malace.

Pond life comes in different forms it seems.

 

[Crowstone Crevette]

I really appreciate the eloquence with which you've put your point of view across, a point of view that I agree with almost entirely.

I agree that now isn't the time for the conversation about everything else that happened that day. It isn't too soon though, it's two and a half years too late. Complaints should have been made to the Police, statements offered and if the Police bungled an investigation into the conduct of any away fans or didn't bother pursuing Cambridge fans then they should have been criticised for that at the time.

This trial wasn't about everything that happened that day, it wasn't about the fight in the Spread, or the thugs from Cambridge who came to Essex and caused a day's worth of violence. This trial was about a single incident outside the Railway and the supposed 'conspiracy' that caused it.

From day one on here and Social Media there's been a narrative put forward that this was nothing to do with Southend United or it's fans. Originally in the threads at the time we were told that those arrested weren't even Southend fans and hadn't been to the game. Then we were told that Dobbin was a hooligan, had caused the issue and that the truth of that day would come out at trial. Now it's the fault of the Police.

We've all been to enough games over enough years to know that Roots Hall is a safe ground to visit. What happened that day was massively uncharacteristic of a match day in Southend and it isn't fair that our reputation as a club and a set of fans has been dragged down by everything that happened that day and I'd hope that the authorities, the club and everyone else learns from it but none of that is relevant to this trial and these verdicts.

A lot of things happened that day and a lot more people should have been arrested and punished but of all the altercations this trial was to do with one incident outside the Railway with one group of Cambridge fans trying to get to the train station. Everything else is just context and bringing it up just gives off the impression - whether it is the view of the individual or not - that what happened to Simon Dobbin was the direct fault of anyone other than the individual or individuals who beat him into a coma.

Absolutely brilliant.