Post-Match Thread and Ratings Southend United 1-2 Accrington

[KAB]

Agreed,

Lenny for my money clearly hates the role he is ordered to play and he is now paying the price with dull performance after another,I understand Phil loves the defence covered but you have to take risks to win trophies which Phil will not entertain.

I don't think its as clear cut as that. PB has been seen and heard, on numerous occasions, urging Lenny forward. Whilst I agree that he is probably asked to play deeper, he still has a forward role to play but he hasn't yet got the balance right of when to stay and when to go. However, this does not explain his inability to shoot on target or to misplace passes to team members who are only yards away. That is just poor form but as others have said, his work rate and tackling compensate. In conclusion, I do not believe for one second that Lenny is being ruined by anyone, he is developing well IMO but some aspects of his form have deserted him. I'm not of the opinion we have reached the stage where risks need to be taken although that time will undoubtedly come and PB will have forego his caution.

 

[mrsblue]

It wasnt an attempt to stifle Stanley at all, it was just the nature of the system, it was the same system we deployed against Cheltenham and I dont remember you complaining about it then.

With Payne in the hole like he was yesterday the team has no width, nor can it. You only have 3 midfielders left and the width will come from the full backs which isnt enough.

Please elaborate so we are all clear, how exactly should the team line up with Jack Payne because I just dont see how you do it without sacrificing width, which actually isnt always the wrong thing to do, it worked against Shrewsbury and Cheltenham after all.

We scored early against Cheltenham which is always very helpful and we added another yet second half according to some we sat back and allowed CT to get forward,why invite pressure when we all know our GD is poor...I was not there.


We are not playing against super strikers in the mould of Messi/Ronaldo,we have 4 defenders normally picking up one player possibly 2 which should be plenty of cover,these defenders should have the mindset of not being clever with the ball and either get rid or play it into row z.

The midfield at home do we really need a playing sitting in front of the back 4,not in my book,hence why at home we are either bad or shocking as we make it too easy for the visitors.

Payne is our star player so we should be playing to his strengths which is to attack and allow Jack to at least pass it forward and outwide but yesterday his options were practically zero.

 

[Jam_Man]

We scored early against Cheltenham which is always very helpful and we added another yet second half according to some we sat back and allowed CT to get forward,why invite pressure when we all know our GD is poor...I was not there.


We are not playing against super strikers in the mould of Messi/Ronaldo,we have 4 defenders normally picking up one player possibly 2 which should be plenty of cover,these defenders should have the mindset of not being clever with the ball and either get rid or play it into row z.

The midfield at home do we really need a playing sitting in front of the back 4,not in my book,hence why at home we are either bad or shocking as we make it too easy for the visitors.

Payne is our star player so we should be playing to his strengths which is to attack and allow Jack to at least pass it forward and outwide but yesterday his options were practically zero.

You didnt anwer the question. You have a great knack of saying what we shouldn't do and never saying what we should. (other than play 442 which we have been)

Even if you told Lenny not to sit in front of the back four (which would have resulted in us being 1-0 down in the first half due to him intercepting a 1 on 1 with Smith), you still do not have width.

Payne does have an attacking role and does have two options, he has two forwards both of which were making good runs yesterday, (but he chose most of the time to run into trouble or go for goal), however he has little wide because with him in that role we cant play wide men. When Worrall came in he did at least have another outlet that he found on a number of occassions, but that mean having to go three at the back, so no longer 442.

So how would you line up and with what players, because at the moment we are playing the system you said guaranteed promotion ?

 

[mrsblue]

You didnt anwer the question. You habe a great knack of saying what we shouldnt do and never saying what we should.

Even if you told Lenny not to sit in front of the back four (which wouild have resulted in us being 1-0 down in the first half due to him intercepting a 1 on 1 with Smith), you still do not have width.

Payne does have an attacking role and does have two options, he has two forwards both of which were making good runs yesterday, (but he chose most of the time to run into trouble or go for goal), however he has little wide because with him in that role we cant play wide men. When Worrall came in he did at least have another outlet that he found on a number of occassions, but that mean having to go three at the back, so no longer 442.

So how would you line up and with what players, because at the moment we are playing the system you said guaranteed promotion ?

Worral and Hurst doing their job which is out wide and getting balls into the box for the forwards to get onto ,Payne then has options everywhere where he can play it wide then sprint into the box for any second balls,Phil has to release the brakes on these players especially at home.

Payne would Imo be the first player on the team sheet under an attack minded manager and instructed to get forward with his team mates joining in with the fun.

 

[Jam_Man]

Worral and Hurst doing their job which is out wide and getting balls into the box for the forwards to get onto ,Payne then has options everywhere where he can play it wide then sprint into the box for any second balls,Phil has to release the brakes on these players especially at home.

Payne would Imo be the first player on the team sheet under an attack minded manager and instructed to get forward with his team mates joining in with the fun.

So you would play Payne in the hole with two wingers?

That leaves one midfielder to cover central midfield, if we play against 442 that one midfielder has to deal with two midfielders, if we had to play against 451 he would have 3 to deal with.

So suddenly your star player has then to track back all the time.

Not a great idea.

Thats not attack minded, its reckless and suicidal.

Payne already is instructed to get forward, its how you build a team around him thats the hard bit.

 

[mrsblue]

So you would play Payne in the hole with two wingers?

That leaves one midfielder to cover central midfield, if we play against 442 that one midfielder has to deal with two midfielders, if we had to play against 451 he would have 3 to deal with.

So suddenly your star player has then to track back all the time.

Not a great idea.

Thats not attack minded, its reckless and suicidal.

If we are attacking in numbers the opposition will defend in numbers it's not rocket science,so you think the visiting manager will allow his players to be overrun by us in the hope they gain possession and break with extra players.

The best form of defence is attack,how many points have we dropped at home this season ?So Phil's game plan hardly works at home does it ?

Listened to ex top players commenting on Man Utd and they all agreed United play too many sideways passing or keeping it at the back,it is poor play but that is what the manager demands but the fans are not happy.

 

[Jam_Man]

If we are attacking in numbers the opposition will defend in numbers it's not rocket science,so you think the visiting manager will allow his players to be overrun by us in the hope they gain possession and break with extra players.

The best form of defence is attack,how many points have we dropped at home this season ?So Phil's game plan hardly works at home does it ?

Listened to ex top players commenting on Man Utd and they all agreed United play too many sideways passing or keeping it at the back,it is poor play but that is what the manager demands but the fans are not happy.

Lets not bother playing a keeper either, play a 0-0-5-6 system, that way the opposition will be too busy defending right?

Play your suggestion and they will come to defend, soak up pressure and hit us on the break and our one central midfielder will not cope. We got overrun yesterday playing a defensive midfielder, one 1 on 1 Lenny stopped another they scored from. It would just need a quick long ball and we would see far more of them.

You can not play a system where you have only one midfielder in the middle with any sort of discipline, thats absurd.

I have never said Phils game plan is working (unlike you a few days ago saying the goals were now flowing because of it), but your suggestion is never going to be used.

The problem we had yesterday, as I said straight after the game, was a lack of width, you cant play Hurst Payne and Worrall with Two strikers and expect all of them to be attacking, its impossible and extremely naive.

The question has been and will always been how to play Payne, you haven't answered that in any way resembling sensibility. Im all for 442 now with two strikers, I just dont see how Payne fits in the hole.

 

[davewebbsbrain]

Lets not bother playing a keeper either, play a 0-0-5-6 system, that way the opposition will be too busy defending right?

Play you suggestion and they will come to defend, soak up pressure and hit us on the break and our one central midfielder will not cope. We got overrun yesterday playing a defensive midfielder, one 1 on 1 LEnny stopped another they scored from. It would just need a quick long ball and we would see far more of them.

You can not play a system where you have only one midfielder in the middle with any sort of discipline, thats absurd.

I have never said Phils game plan is working (unlike you a few days ago saying the goals were now flowing because of it), but your suggestion is never going to be used.

The problem we had yesterday, as I said straight after the game, was a lack of width, you cant play Hurst Payne and Worrall with Two strikers and expect all of them to be attacking, its impossible and extremely naive.

The question has been and will always been how to play Payne, you haven't answered that in any way resembling sensibility.

That's not a new concept. OBL wants us to play 4-5-2 with no keeper

 

[Jam_Man]

That's not a new concept. OBL wants us to play 4-5-2 with no keeper

Funnily enough I think thats the system needed to accomodate Mrsblues gameplan.

 

[Cricko]

I think I should set up a Forum entitled "Jam_Man and mrsblue Debates" :winking:

 

[davewebbsbrain]

Funnily enough I think thats the system needed to accomodate Mrsblues gameplan.

Only 2 strikers, that's not the way for mrsblue

 

[mrsblue]

Only 2 strikers, that's not the way for mrsblue

Attack attack attack :winking:

 

[tallboyblue]

IMO Payne would be more of a threat if he played on left . He would have more space to create chances in the box. Playing down the centre he comes up against a brick wall time and again.

 

[Jam_Man]

I think I should set up a Forum entitled "Jam_Man and mrsblue Debates" :winking:

**** off :smile:

No need, just wanted to explore this ground breaking lets get beaten 7-4 tactic :smile:

I think that's been covered now.

IMO Payne would be more of a threat if he played on left . He would have more space to create chances in the box. Playing down the centre he comes up against a brick wall time and again.

That to me is the more realistic option to keep him in the side.

I'm not sure how effective he would be, but he hasnt been overly effective in the hole last couple of games anyway, but its a waste for him not to be in the side.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

That's not a new concept. OBL wants us to play 4-5-2 with no keeper

Just have a rush goalie - job done.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I think I should set up a Forum entitled "Jam_Man and mrsblue Debates" :winking:

Can you not go into their profiles and activate the ignore options for them....

 

[IloveShrimp]

Very frustrated but in no way surprised. This performance carried on from the second half Tuesday where quite frankly we were awful. Tuesday was an opportunity to really rack up the goals and build some confidence, yet We sat back and allowed Cheltenham into the game. Today, other than piggotts chance which he should have scored I can't remember working their keeper once in the first half. Whether Accy came for a point or not, when it mattered they did the business in front of goal and for me deserved their win, which from our point of view is embarrassing.

i am not a PB fan, I dont like his tactics, team selections at times are baffling and subs the same. I appreciate our league position etc, but with this squad of players we should be there or there abouts if not higher. We have thrown away so many points. We have been extremely lucky in so many games, which is a good sign I guess, but I can't remember many games, and I've been to plenty that I can honestly say I enjoyed.

• Smith in goal did well, but you could see his inexperience, would be concerned if Bentley is injured for a few weeks. Kicking needs a lot of work and decision making will come with game time, but think it's a bit soon for him
• JBW has been an accident waiting to happen, apparently a left back by trade, oh dear. Then in desperation PB plays him at CB. Yesterday's performance has been on the cards for weeks. How he gets ahead of Prosser or AB is baffling. Don't care about the last few weeks, you play the best players in the best positions and he isn't one of them
• AB is bought as much for his experience than his playing ability, yet after playing the last 20 mins on Tuesday doesn't even get on the bench yesterday, apparently he was fit. Should have been playing in my opinion, or if not Prosser in and AB on the bench.
• The Coker substitution is right up there as the most bizarre since Worrell got taken off against Chester. Along with Worrell Coker is by far one of our most attacking players and one of the best crosses of the ball. Why was he taken off in a game we were chasing, leaving JBW on who quite frankly in the last 15 mins was even more out of position than previously. Were we playing three at the back? If yes why did hurst spend most of his time on the pitch playing left back. Coker was fuming when he came off and gave the management a right mouthful.
• why did Worrell not start? He is our best player, he gives us the one thing this side needs and that is width. We now have two decent strikers in the side who win headers, yet we play so narrow. I've read much criticism of white on here, but yesterday he had the ball numerous times but no option. The middle of the pitch was congested and no one out wide to play it to. Payne is not the answer at home at least. He has no strength and mostly runs into a cul de sac. He is more suited to away games where the game can be more open. Did we'll for the goal though.
• Leonard is a shadow of his former self, think he needs to take some time out and look at his game. He seems lacklustre, slow in his decision making, constantly falling over and passing not far worse than JBW
• really like Cassidy, and yesterday he was better and sharper than Piggott, so why take him off?

All in all a bad day at the office, maybe? But PB got a lot wrong yesterday and not for the first time in my opinion. Sometimes luck can carry you so far, but eventually it runs out, yesterday it did. Stevenage will be a tough test next week, he needs to get it spot on. Get the experience back in defence, get some bite in midfield and some width in the side.

Oh dear! Goodbye Mr Coker same direction as Messr's Barnard and Clifford! :'(

 

[IloveShrimp]

Home results are costing us a chance of automatic promotion, which wont be the first time that has happened in the last few seasons. Now we have to win at Stevenage otherwise a few teams could be breathing down our necks for the play-offs places.

15 goals in 16 home games is frankly pathetic, yes we have only conceded 7 but we should have alot more points with a defensive record like that.

I agree with this.

Boring boring Southend (at home anyway). I know of several people not going to renew their season cards due to this!

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

Can you not go into their profiles and activate the ignore options for them....

I have tried that however when others use the post in quotation it still shows.:'(

 

[RobM]

"Let's not bother playing a keeper either, play a 0-0-5-6 system, that way the opposition will be too busy defending right?"

Laws of the game state "A team shall consist of a maximum of eleven players, one of whom must be a goalkeeper".