The American Gun Law

[C'mon you Shrimpers]

Sadly, this will happen time and time again because those in power just don't want to change the status quo.

We get the same old excuses that guns don't kill people, people kill people. Fine, so stop giving guns to people then.

I guess, if the US would prefer to keep the 2nd amendment and accept the possibility of future mass killings, then who are we to criticise. Just don't go there for your holidays.

you will never get rid of guns in the US but why anyone needs or should be allowed automatic waepons (which I had to Wiki - they can shoot 150 bullets a minute, they could do more but overheat and seize up) is quite beyond me. After Hungerford we banned semi automatic weapons and logic would suggest that the US should ban these and fully aitomatic weapons to the general public. But logic is not something in great supply in the US.

 

[BrettieAngell]

Why does anyone need 47 ****ing guns, total insanity.

 

[MK Shrimper]

If you go to Vegas you can get day trips out to the desert so you can fire these automatic rifles. Plenty of men-children get erections over this.

Nothing will get banned, nothing will change and more innocent people will die and America will wring it's hands and offer "thoughts and prayers".

 

[londonblue]

This is an interesting video:

[video=youtube;BYJb67-5nIs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYJb67-5nIs[/video]

 

[Blueronron]

The sad thing opposite the hotel, is a shop that lets you fire machine guns

And yet many americans still believe, very hard for those of us who are not brought up in that culture, similar to a poll yesterday 45 % of americans believe Trump is doing a good job, they like his interaction of FB and twitter and even his mistakes are accepted.

Again hard for us to accept or believe.....

 

[Sandbach Shrimper]

Automatic weapons like the one used in this shooting are already heavy regulated in the U.S and can only be owned by the police and the military unless they were made before 1986. This article has some info on it.

I'm no expert on guns in America but at the end of the day terrorists will find a way to get hold of weapons. The Paris attackers managed to get weapons that were banned in France. Should France ban knives given the almost weekly Islamist stabbings there at the moment?

The same people who say 'carry on as normal' after every single Islamist attack and brand anyone who dares criticise Islam as racist are now crying out for stricter gun laws in America. What's the difference between calling for guns to be banned in America and calling for Muslim immigration to be stopped in Europe? The difference in the reaction to Islamist attacks and any other kind of attack is so hypocritical.

This video from Paul Joseph Watson is spot on, and also has a link to donate to the victims and their families: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvzOH60HqA4

 

[RobM]

Today's award for stating the obvious goes to the reporter on BBC "The states that have the most lax gun laws have the most gun deaths". Well, that's hardly a surprise.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

I'm no expert on guns in America but at the end of the day terrorists will find a way to get hold of weapons. The Paris attackers managed to get weapons that were banned in France. Should France ban knives given the almost weekly Islamist stabbings there at the moment?

Fortunately none of the European terrorist attacks managed to get hold of such an arsenal of weapons as was used in this attack, otherwise the death tolls would have been much higher.

The same people who say 'carry on as normal' after every single Islamist attack and brand anyone who dares criticise Islam as racist are now crying out for stricter gun laws in America. What's the difference between calling for guns to be banned in America and calling for Muslim immigration to be stopped in Europe?

Er, guns are a tool designed for killing. Muslim immigration isn't.

The difference in the reaction to Islamist attacks and any other kind of attack is so hypocritical.

This video from Paul Joseph Watson

If you actually listen to Paul Joseph Watson (why?) I can see why think reactions are hypocritical. More reputable and less hypocritical views are available.

 

[RHB]

some interesting charts courtesy of BBC

 

[londonblue]

Looks like the NRA are spending their money wisely. As expenditure goes up more people agree with them.

 

[MK Shrimper]

Anyone seen the conspiracy theories floating around this one? I have to say, there slightly more convincing than the usual ones.

For example, a highly trained Navy Seal couldn't fire an automatic rifle for 11 minutes straight, let alone a retired 64yr old accountant with no military or weapons training......

 

[GBJ]

Anyone seen the conspiracy theories floating around this one? I have to say, there slightly more convincing than the usual ones.

For example, a highly trained Navy Seal couldn't fire an automatic rifle for 11 minutes straight, let alone a retired 64yr old accountant with no military or weapons training......

He didn't fire AN automatic rifle for 11 minutes though. He fired several different ones. Whilst wearing gloves. And let's have it right, an automatic rifle isn't that difficult to handle. Don't get me wrong, an amateur couldn't pick one up for the first time & be a marksman, but with some practice & guidance, it's not that hard either.

The conspiracy theories surrounding this are nothing short of laughable. Such as the the idea of a second shooter, and supposed "muzzle flash" being seen from a lower floor of the Mandalay Bay, in one particular video. With the briefest of digging, 2 seperate videos clearly show the exact same "muzzle flash", clearly visible 2 hours prior to the shooting, and also present during/after the shooting. It was simply either a reflection, or some form of strobe/flashing light coming from inside one of the rooms.

 

[MK Shrimper]

He didn't fire AN automatic rifle for 11 minutes though. He fired several different ones. Whilst wearing gloves. And let's have it right, an automatic rifle isn't that difficult to handle. Don't get me wrong, an amateur couldn't pick one up for the first time & be a marksman, but with some practice & guidance, it's not that hard either.

The conspiracy theories surrounding this are nothing short of laughable. Such as the the idea of a second shooter, and supposed "muzzle flash" being seen from a lower floor of the Mandalay Bay, in one particular video. With the briefest of digging, 2 seperate videos clearly show the exact same "muzzle flash", clearly visible 2 hours prior to the shooting, and also present during/after the shooting. It was simply either a reflection, or some form of strobe/flashing light coming from inside one of the rooms.

Someone on FB said he used "bi pods"? Means nothing to me, but your statement contradicts his which as per usual we're overloaded with "fake news" where trying to uncover the truth about this tragedy borders on the impossible. However, the LVPD has suggested that there was a second shooter, and they're much closer to the evidence.

 

[GBJ]

Someone on FB said he used "bi pods"? Means nothing to me, but your statement contradicts his which as per usual we're overloaded with "fake news" where trying to uncover the truth about this tragedy borders on the impossible. However, the LVPD has suggested that there was a second shooter, and they're much closer to the evidence.

A bipod is an attachment similar to a tripod, only smaller & of course it only has two stanchions. The pictures released/leaked show several different types of AR, either stacked up or discarded in the hotel room, and most of them do have the pod attachments.

I'm no detective, but from those photos, It would appear, that he pushed two big armchairs together, next to the window, to form a bath shape, and rested/stacked the guns in it, ready for use. The ones he had used and didn't want to reload, were (I'm assuming) thrown to one side. Also near to the chairs/window is a neatly stacked pile
of ammo/magazines.

Haven't seen the LVMPD mention they believe there was a second shooter? There doesn't seem any obvious evidence that there was anyway. Some conspiracists have jumped to conclusions, without the basic fact-checking, and that's where this second shooter theory has originated from, although every one of their "weird/strange occurances", can be explained fairly simply.

 

[MK Shrimper]

Haven't seen the LVMPD mention they believe there was a second shooter? There doesn't seem any obvious evidence that there was anyway. Some conspiracists have jumped to conclusions, without the basic fact-checking, and that's where this second shooter theory has originated from, although every one of their "weird/strange occurances", can be explained fairly simply.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/04/las-vegas-gunman-stephen-paddock-survive-police

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Mate is in America at the moment on holiday, flies to Vegas tomorrow. He wouldn't have been at the concert, but jeez.....

Two young cousins of my wife's (and mine I suppose) have been to the concert in LA in recent years.That'll learn them not to go to country music gigs.:whistling:

 

[GBJ]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/04/las-vegas-gunman-stephen-paddock-survive-police

Again, the article doesn't state anything about a second shooter, and only that police are open to ideas that he had some help. Now, that could mean he recieved help in any number of different ways, but doesn't necessarily indicate an accomplice gunman.

chances of there being a secondary gunman in the room with him, are slim to none. How would they have escaped? Chances of a second gunman in a different locale, are non-starters, because no matter how you tried, it'd be impossible to conceal that type of chaotic & rapid gunfire. The chances of someone helping him transport the weapons & set them up, maybe, but that would be easily clarified, by tracking his movements in the days leading upto the event. Any helper would have been caught on (numerous) CCTV cameras in and around the Mandalay Bay.

For sure, if I was FBI, I'd be focussing on just how much the wife/girlfriend/whatever she is, knew about it, or at the very least, what she thought he was potentially capable of.

 

[MK Shrimper]

Again, the article doesn't state anything about a second shooter, and only that police are open to ideas that he had some help. Now, that could mean he recieved help in any number of different ways, but doesn't necessarily indicate an accomplice gunman.

chances of there being a secondary gunman in the room with him, are slim to none. How would they have escaped? Chances of a second gunman in a different locale, are non-starters, because no matter how you tried, it'd be impossible to conceal heat type of chaotic & rapid gunfire. The chances of someone helping him transport the weapons & set them up, maybe, but that would be easily clarified, by tracking his movements in the days leading upto the event. Any helper would have been caught on (numerous) CCTV cameras in and around the Mandalay Bay.

For sure, if I was FBI, I'd be focussing on just how much the wife/girlfriend/whatever she is, knew about it, or at the very least, what she thought he was potentially capable of.

Fair enough. Like I say, so much bollocks out there it's difficult to seperate truth from crapola.

I guess the big question that'll never be answered is why?

 

[GBJ]

Fair enough. Like I say, so much bollocks out there it's difficult to seperate truth from crapola.

I guess the big question that'll never be answered is why?

You're right, we'll never know for sure. Only semblance of a motive I can deduce, is that he must have had a festering grudge against the City of Las Vegas.

A Possible reason for his anger, could be his failed lawsuit against The Cosmopolitan Hotel (which is owned by the MGM group, which also owns Mandalay Bay). He supposedly slipped on a wet floor & was injured, which in America, is normally an open and shut compensation case, although his one, was almost immediately dismissed. Ok, that's not enough to trigger a killing spree, but it may have been the start of his downfall?

I also think his losses were significant sums. It's been noted he was a high-roller gambler, and high-rollers don't just win big, they lose big, although only the casino's have access to those records, so it is supposition.

Those are two potential reasons for taking umbrage against the city as a whole, and I'm sure there are other reasons, but whether they will ever be revealed or uncovered is anyone's guess.

 

[Jam_Man]

Trying to rationalise a psycho is pointless. Nothing in the world should trigger what he did.

Anyone seen the conspiracy theories floating around this one? I have to say, there slightly more convincing than the usual ones.

For example, a highly trained Navy Seal couldn't fire an automatic rifle for 11 minutes straight, let alone a retired 64yr old accountant with no military or weapons training......

So what was he a cyborg? :smile:

No one could fire any gun for 11 minutes straight because a fully automatic weapon would run out in under a minute, and the barrel would over heat anyway. Plus anyone who tried would find they would have no accuracy, you have to fire in bursts.

You can see from the photos he had piles of magazines, they are extended magazines so will take the capacity up from the normal 30 to probably 60 or so, on fully auto he could empty one of them in 15 seconds.

He may have been firing for 11 minutes but he would have been changing rifles and magazines which would only take a few seconds and would seem like firing was continual.

As for a 2nd person I wouldnt be surprised if he had taken someone to the room, but doesnt mean they were involved. CCTV will show how get got the guns up there.