The American Gun Law

[Benfleet A1]

Trying to rationalise a psycho is pointless. Nothing in the world should trigger what he did.



So what was he a cyborg? :smile:

No one could fire any gun for 11 minutes straight because a fully automatic weapon would run out in under a minute, and the barrel would over heat anyway. Plus anyone who tried would find they would have no accuracy, you have to fire in bursts.

You can see from the photos he had piles of magazines, they are extended magazines so will take the capacity up from the normal 30 to probably 60 or so, on fully auto he could empty one of them in 15 seconds.

He may have been firing for 11 minutes but he would have been changing rifles and magazines which would only take a few seconds and would seem like firing was continual.

As for a 2nd person I wouldnt be surprised if he had taken someone to the room, but doesnt mean they were involved. CCTV will show how get got the guns up there.

I would have thought he got the guns in via the ten suitcases he had as luggage. Never been to Vagas so have no idea if there are metal detectors in hotels but I have never stayed in one that has so I would assume Vagas is no different.

As you said, fully automatic gives you no control (as I found out at Basildon Gun Club. Hit nothing but clouds with the AK47 I fired) but if he was firing from the 32nd floor, all he had to do was point it downwards and pull the trigger. It's going to be messy just as we have all seen.

 

[GBJ]

No one could fire any gun for 11 minutes straight because a fully automatic weapon would run out in under a minute, and the barrel would over heat anyway. Plus anyone who tried would find they would have no accuracy, you have to fire in bursts.
.

I've seen first hand what happens when you hold the trigger of an AR, and you're right, the accuracy is compromised. That being said, The bump stocks, aswell as the pods, would have aided him with the accuracy. Also, in that situation, u don't really need pinpoint accuracy, as the target was about the size of a football pitch

 

[GBJ]

I would have thought he got the guns in via the ten suitcases he had as luggage. Never been to Vagas so have no idea if there are metal detectors in hotels but I have never stayed in one that has so I would assume Vagas is no different..

No metal detectors in any Vegas hotels. Simple reason for that is, almost every single person has some form of metal on them; money, belts, phones luggage, clothing etc. And any casino on the Vegas strip, could have tens of thousands of people in, at any one time, so stopping and checking all of those people would be impossible.

Getting the guns Upto his room, would have been surprisingly easy. He could have taken them up 2-3 cases at a time, or simply (more worryingly) got a bell boy, to load up his cage & take the cases up in big quantities. Only the hotel itself will know that though. Either way, it'll be clear on CCTV

 

[OldBlueLady]

I struggle to understand how he could get all those cases into his room, and how no-one in housekeeping noticed anything wrong during his stay. I mean, was his room not cleaned? Surely if it wasn't, then that should have raised suspicions. And no concierge or lobby staff noticed the numerous bags and cases?

However, the fact that "this was Vegas" seems to be justification enough for any sort of odd behaviour, coupled with the fact he was a multi millionaire and there you have everything that explains how he was able to do this.

Absolutely perplexing, and the sooner America does something to rein in its love affair with guns the better.

 

[Pubey]

Plenty of people travel with lots of luggage, I have to do it often if I'm taking material and stuff for a workshop/conference etc. There isn't the time to courier it so you take it with you. It's not unusual and we've all seen people at airports with numerous suitcases

 

[GBJ]

I struggle to understand how he could get all those cases into his room, and how no-one in housekeeping noticed anything wrong during his stay. I mean, was his room not cleaned? Surely if it wasn't, then that should have raised suspicions. And no concierge or lobby staff noticed the numerous bags and cases?

Again, fairly simple explanation... Transporting several cases from the parking lot, to his room, over the course of several hours/days wouldn't have been noticed. The Mandalay Bay has circa. 4000 hotel rooms, which means at any one time, there may be in excess of 10,000 people in the hotel/casino itself, probably thousands more. From memory, The parking lot is nowhere near the concierge/check-in desk, (which is similar to a lot of Vegas hotels) so he would have been free to mingle in amoungst the thousands of guests, completely unnoticed. I myself have seen it countless times, where a man is wheeling a luggage cage, through a casino, with at least 7-8 cases on it. You naturally assume it's just the family cases, and don't give it a second thought.

Neither would it have been uncommon, for a known high-roller, to have multiple cases. House keeping wouldn't have thought anything of it, as really, it's not their job to take notice of people's number of cases, and especially in a high-roller suite. On top of that, there's always the prospect that he refused housekeeping, which again, isn't anything out of the ordinary (I've done it myself in Vegas, several times) [/QUOTE]

However, the fact that "this was Vegas" seems to be justification enough for any sort of odd behaviour, coupled with the fact he was a multi millionaire and there you have everything that explains how he was able to do this.

TBH, I don't think his wealth made much difference. It certainly didn't give him any extra swing, to carry out his plan. You could argue that the guns were expensive, but then there's always guns readily available in the states. As for the odd-behaviour, well, having been to Vegas on 8 seperate occasions, I can confirm that there is a lot of weird behaviour, and anyone acting "normally", would look out-of-place :winking:

 

[MK Shrimper]

Just to play Devils Advocate here, the is an average of 101 deaths caused by traffic accidents per day in the USA - a frightening figure, but no one is asking for cars to be banned - however that's around the same numbers as gun deaths.

http://asirt.org/initiatives/informing-road-users/road-safety-facts/road-crash-statistics

However, there is still a frighting about of stats about gun deaths here....https://everytownresearch.org/gun-violence-by-the-numbers/

 

[Mad Cyril]

If I lived in a country with getting on for half a billion guns I would definitely make sure I was tooled up.

 

[londonblue]

Trying to rationalise a psycho is pointless. Nothing in the world should trigger what he did.



So what was he a cyborg? :smile:

No one could fire any gun for 11 minutes straight because a fully automatic weapon would run out in under a minute, and the barrel would over heat anyway. Plus anyone who tried would find they would have no accuracy, you have to fire in bursts.

You can see from the photos he had piles of magazines, they are extended magazines so will take the capacity up from the normal 30 to probably 60 or so, on fully auto he could empty one of them in 15 seconds.

He may have been firing for 11 minutes but he would have been changing rifles and magazines which would only take a few seconds and would seem like firing was continual.

As for a 2nd person I wouldnt be surprised if he had taken someone to the room, but doesnt mean they were involved. CCTV will show how get got the guns up there.

Don't forget accuracy wouldn't have been an issue for him. He was shooting indiscriminately at a huge crowd and didn't care who he hit.

 

[londonblue]

I struggle to understand how he could get all those cases into his room, and how no-one in housekeeping noticed anything wrong during his stay. I mean, was his room not cleaned? Surely if it wasn't, then that should have raised suspicions. And no concierge or lobby staff noticed the numerous bags and cases?

However, the fact that "this was Vegas" seems to be justification enough for any sort of odd behaviour, coupled with the fact he was a multi millionaire and there you have everything that explains how he was able to do this.

Absolutely perplexing, and the sooner America does something to rein in its love affair with guns the better.

As ridiculous as this sounds, I bet all he did was put up the "do not disturb sign". Hotels that size also have thousands of people moving around, and in Vagas where the lobby of the hotel is also the casino that is open 24/7 no-one would even notice if he carried a couple of cases up one day, and couple the next. No-one would be paying the slightest bit of attention.

 

[E for B and Billy Best]

The American Gun Law is...Bonkers and is there to make blokes with small todgers feel good about themselves.

 

[MK Shrimper]

The American Gun Law is...Bonkers and is there to make blokes with small todgers feel good about themselves.

Plenty of women have licences that allow them to carry concealed firearms, and in fact the NRA spokesperson on the BBC last week was an attractive young (black) woman who had several automatic rifles with the addition of bump stocks that she used for "sports".

...and I put her ethnicity in brackets as I'm sure it was an attempt by the NRA to say "hey, look we're not all redneck male white folks who love to go a shootin' up the varmints...."

 

[Mad Cyril]

I am in the US at the moment and am more concerned about paying $7 for 80% of a U.K. pint than I am about being capped.

 

[Benfleet A1]

I am in the US at the moment and am more concerned about paying $7 for 80% of a U.K. pint than I am about being capped.

Being mugged rather than shot.

 

[londonblue]

I am in the US at the moment and am more concerned about paying $7 for 80% of a U.K. pint than I am about being capped.

Bottling that trip to the dentist are you?

 

[Jam_Man]

Just to play Devils Advocate here, the is an average of 101 deaths caused by traffic accidents per day in the USA - a frightening figure, but no one is asking for cars to be banned - however that's around the same numbers as gun deaths.

http://asirt.org/initiatives/informing-road-users/road-safety-facts/road-crash-statistics

However, there is still a frighting about of stats about gun deaths here....https://everytownresearch.org/gun-violence-by-the-numbers/

I don't know why people use cars as a comparison. The difference being a traffic accident is an accident, shooting someone with a gun is deliberate.

A car has a genuine purpose and any deaths caused are accidental.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

I don't know why people use cars as a comparison. The difference being a traffic accident is an accident, shooting someone with a gun is deliberate.

A car has a genuine purpose and any deaths caused are accidental.

Whilst crashes may not be intentional (which I think is the point you are making) 94% of road traffic crashes don't happen by chance but rather are the fault of the(/a) driver.

The remaining 6% are due to vehicle malfunctions, weather or other factors.

 

[MK Shrimper]

..and a number of shootings are classed as accidental.

 

[Jam_Man]

Whilst crashes may not be intentional (which I think is the point you are making) 94% of road traffic crashes don't happen by chance but rather are the fault of the(/a) driver.

The remaining 6% are due to vehicle malfunctions, weather or other factors.

Being at fault for an accident is a mile apart from intentionally shooting someone. Every accident (well 94% according to your stat) is preventable but that doesn't mean a death caused by them is willful or intentional. Death by careless driving is of course an offence already so its not like its "allowed". For example, I have been knocked off my motorbike, the woman didnt see me. It was her fault there was an accident but it was still an accident, she didnt intend to do it, despite the names I called her.

..and a number of shootings are classed as accidental.

Very few and even so, the guns purpose is to shoot bullets, a cars purpose is transportation.

There is no comparison to be made between cars and guns, its a terrible argument.

 

[Firestorm]

Very few and even so, the guns purpose is to shoot bullets, a cars purpose is transportation.

There is no comparison to be made between cars and guns, its a terrible argument.

Both are involved in preventable deaths .

If the aim is to prevent deaths, surely you look at all causes and start with the big numbers.