What the actual ****?!

[Pubey]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-by-talking-until-time-runs-out-a6742251.html

Nasty, anti-democratic ****heads.

 

[MK Shrimper]

They are ****ing scum.

 

[Supernaut]

I'm no longer surprised by anything said or done by Tory scum. I just feel a tired resignation every time I see something like this reported.

 

[superblue24]

I assume this is more the principle than the actual issue being discussed? It's not exactly a worthwhile idea (and somewhat dangerous imo), although no need for rudeness I would agree.

Doubtful this story is going to have any damaging effect on the Tories, despite how much sensationalism you lefties are trying to garner in this thread.

 

[EastStandBlue]

It's not exactly a worthwhile idea.

It's *literally* about saving lives, for **** sake.

 

[OldBlueLady]

It's *literally* about saving lives, for **** sake.

I disagree with the behaviour here and vehemently advocate for teaching life saving skills. Shame on the MPs involved.

 

[southendkid]

I assume this is more the principle than the actual issue being discussed? It's not exactly a worthwhile idea (and somewhat dangerous imo), although no need for rudeness I would agree.

Care to elaborate on the danger involved? Surely teaching kids first aid will save lives, not endanger them.

 

[OldBlueLady]

Care to elaborate on the danger involved? Surely teaching kids first aid will save lives, not endanger them.

I would imagine it's the principle that doing it wrongly is more of a risk. Surely better the chance of surviving with a few broken ribs than not surviving?

 

[superblue24]

It's *literally* about saving lives, for **** sake.

I believe only adults should be taught in first aid. Children are underdeveloped physically and having been a registered first aider in the past (ie attended the course), I just have strong personal reservations on their ability to save lives or have the maturity to handle that kind of dramatic situation.

Also, as a parent, a child trying and failing to save a life could cause mental/grief related problems/memories for that child. I wouldn't want my child to feel like her failure to save a life was in any way her fault.

sorry to make you all so cross, but that's my opinion on the matter.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I believe only adults should be taught in first aid. Children are underdeveloped physically and having been a registered first aider in the past (ie attended the course), I just have strong personal reservations on their ability to save lives or have the maturity to handle that kind of dramatic situation.

Also, as a parent, a child trying and failing to save a life could cause mental/grief related problems/memories for that child. I wouldn't want my child to feel like her failure to save a life was in any way her fault.

sorry to make you all so cross, but that's my opinion on the matter.

But St Johns Ambulance sponsored the bill and they know more about first aid training than.......anyone.

They also have lots of child members so they really do think this is worthwhile.

This government really doesn't give a **** about our well being.

 

[OldBlueLady]

But St Johns Ambulance sponsored the bill and they know more about first aid training than.......anyone.

They also have lots of child members so they really do think this is worthwhile.

This government really doesn't give a **** about our well being.

On the contrary, I think superblue24 expressed quite well what reservations may well have been behind their action. I must admit, I hadn't thought about the effect of an unsuccessful attempt at life saving on a young person.

I do believe every young person should know how to put someone in the recovery position though (and when not to), and that is easily taught. The Scout and Guide movement have, of course, taught members for over a century how to do basic first aid. I see no reason why that should not be taught to all either.

 

[RHB]

On the contrary, I think superblue24 expressed quite well what reservations may well have been behind their action. I must admit, I hadn't thought about the effect of an unsuccessful attempt at life saving on a young person.

I do believe every young person should know how to put someone in the recovery position though (and when not to), and that is easily taught. The Scout and Guide movement have, of course, taught members for over a century how to do basic first aid. I see no reason why that should not be taught to all either.

I still have my Scouts first-aiders badge. I can honestly say that since receiving it I have never once had to put someone in the recovery position (well, not because they were ill anyway).

 

[OldBlueLady]

I still have my Scouts first-aiders badge. I can honestly say that since receiving it I have never once had to put someone in the recovery position (well, not because they were ill anyway).

No, but I bet you have because they were drunk and close to passing out? I know I certainly have!

Working with children for 20 odd years in a professional capacity, I had to have approved first aid certification training. My last certificate has just expired and it actually feels a bit odd no longer having it! I've never (thankfully) had to use life saving skills, but I have certainly had to deal with many urgent first aid situations.

 

[Pubey]

I believe only adults should be taught in first aid. Children are underdeveloped physically and having been a registered first aider in the past (ie attended the course), I just have strong personal reservations on their ability to save lives or have the maturity to handle that kind of dramatic situation.

Also, as a parent, a child trying and failing to save a life could cause mental/grief related problems/memories for that child. I wouldn't want my child to feel like her failure to save a life was in any way her fault.

sorry to make you all so cross, but that's my opinion on the matter.

I think the grief would be worse if you didn't try because you didn't know, rather than tried and failed.

First aid isn't just about CPR, but about choking, burns, recovery positions etc. It's common for children to be in a position when it's needed and I've had to give first aid twice (once in a very scary situation) and was glad id done some training when a teenager.

However away from the point about if the bill is a good idea or not, the government have just blocked any discussion or vote. That's anti-democratic and unacceptable

 

[Supernaut]

Doubtful this story is going to have any damaging effect on the Tories, despite how much sensationalism you lefties are trying to garner in this thread.

But this isn't about left or right ideals. It's just common sense and a bit decency, the latter of which is totally lacking in most Tories I know...

 

[superblue24]

I think the grief would be worse if you didn't try because you didn't know, rather than tried and failed.

First aid isn't just about CPR, but about choking, burns, recovery positions etc. It's common for children to be in a position when it's needed and I've had to give first aid twice (once in a very scary situation) and was glad id done some training when a teenager.

However away from the point about if the bill is a good idea or not, the government have just blocked any discussion or vote. That's anti-democratic and unacceptable

I think children are spared the burden of feeling like they need to be involved in such serious events, and so they should be. They are children and should be enjoying having fun and not feeling like they have these kinds of responsibilities.

burns and awareness of the recovery position, yes. But how many children are going to be able to roll an unconscious 80-90KG adult into the position, or exert the force needed to carry out effective CPR? How many children can carry out abdominal thrusts (or whatever they're called these days). I think a 1-2 hour visit from St Johns to present some kind of awareness would be a good idea.... But that's about the extent I would want them being taught.

But yes, I'm disappointed with this kind of behaviour in parliament, even if they do think it's a waste of time. You all know my thoughts on the Labour Party, but I do at least respect them as individuals and would grant them the courtesy of my ears whilst they talk, no matter how little I think of what is being said.

 

[mrsblue]

Limit their speech,and issue a verbal warning that continued stalling will result in them being thrown out and banned for 1 month.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

On the contrary, I think superblue24 expressed quite well what reservations may well have been behind their action. I must admit, I hadn't thought about the effect of an unsuccessful attempt at life saving on a young person.

I do believe every young person should know how to put someone in the recovery position though (and when not to), and that is easily taught. The Scout and Guide movement have, of course, taught members for over a century how to do basic first aid. I see no reason why that should not be taught to all either.

But this comes down to the same thing with so many things - you trust the experts. St Johns train loads of kids and they do that because in their 200 or whatever years of experience they have learnt that it saves lives.

If the handful of Tory MPs that were against the proposal had genuine concerns then they can voice those and have a debate. I suspect they were against the proposal because it costs money. To just keep talking until the time has run down so there can be no debate - that is a disgusting abuse of power and completely undemocratic.

 

[South Bank Hank]

Teaching first aid simply HAS to be a good idea and if the Ambulance Service are advocating it, I'd gladly accept that they are uniquely qualified on this. The issue it seems to me is far more likely to be about where the money to pay for it would have to come from and far less likely to be rejected as an idea of merit.

Far be it from me to get in the way of the Left gorging themselves on another reason to hate Tories, but... if you wish to believe that 'talking out a bill', undemocratic as it may be, is limited to the Tories, then just do it in the knowledge that you are deluding yourselves. It's been going on for years on all sides of the house.

Feel free to hate the system and politicians if that's your bag, but don't pretend it's one sided. The Tories are just the current ones in power and there to be shot at.

Given the base-level bias right throughout the thread, I'd like to finish by saying:

'end of'

and

'fact'.

 

[Firestorm]

This has nothing to do with the rights or wrongs of the bill, its bog standard filibusting, any non government backed bill, which for some reason the government "doesn't fancy" will get treated in the same way.
Oue democracy allows Individually sponsored bills to be heard in parliament, however it appears that this often puts the politicians noses out of joint so the flex their muscles and dismiss it whilts "complying" to the rules.

As for the absolute details, recovery position, Dr ABC etc sounds like a very worthwhile thing too teach a child, however , a child would not be physically capable of cpr for any significant, particularly given the recent guidline changes regarding length of compressions , rescuue breaths etc.
Any education which helps a child recognise a problem act and obtain assistance in a calm effective way without panicing would be beneficial, even if its just teaching them how to call 999 and what to say in the best way possible.