Yes [6.3.08] and The Future

[Irate Ian]

Lol, where have I put "words into his mouth"..And why would we ban you for a difference of opinion?....I am not closer to Ron than any other supporter who he will freely answer any questions to.

Quote "you then went about saying you needed answers before they were able to be supplied" Not remotely near the truth, how would or could you form that opinion ?

At meeting with RM 6 March 08, he promised to respond within a few weeks.

Only after 5 months had elapsed did I next raise concerns at lack of reply.

You couldn't make it up surely ? unless it's pure Jackanory

 

[Hotman]

Despite the bickering, I think this thread is really interesting, perhaps the answers should be extracted and placed as a sticky at the top of the board (they sum up the answers that were wanted from this board...)

 

[ElstreeBlue]

Ian - Thanks for getting and posting the answers.

Ron (through Scriv) - thanks for providing answers. It is appreciated. Better to have some info, rather than none. However, I feel the biggest questions remain unanswered. I'm sure you understand why a lot of fans are asking questions - not because we believe that you are doing anything untoward, but because we want assurances over the stability of our club's future. After all, you must take credit for the fact that we have a club at all and that we have been able to buy any players at all over the last few years. But I am still concerned about where the development leaves SUFC in the long-term.

It seems clear that a financially viable Southend United would be useful to the stadium operating company (SOC). Ron has confirmed that. However, if Southend United did not have security of tenure, what's to stop the stadium being used for other uses - whether football or not? eg (on football), if Col Ewe wanted a proper stadium to play in, what's to stop it taking over as the tenant (stranger things in the past have happened in football), even if it's after Ron left the club? Or what about Col Ewe/Leyton Orient and SUFC merging if it meant better for the clubs to survive? I'm not saying this is the initial plan, but it could end up being what happens if SUFC can't pay the rent that is demanded by SOC.

We still don't know from those in-depth answers how long the lease would be, or what would be the proposed terms of the lease?

What would the rent be? Why would the SOC waive the rent charges? That's what SUFC's owners have done until now, presumably so as not to put a spanner in the works of the new development approved. Can you imagine the fans being quite so vocal to the council in getting the new development approved if SUFC had had to pay even just £50k per year in rent so far? People may have realised what could happen at the new stadium.

And I still don't understand how SUFC will benefit from the new stadium (in financial terms). Of course, it will be nice to see our team play in a new stadium with better facilities and presumably the SOC will want the football club to succeed, because better to have a successful club paying some rent than no rent - but if SUFC is paying rent (how much?), then how will SUFC benefit financially?

What happens if the club stays as a lower league club (which it has been for most of the last 100 or so years)? Is the business plan built on the premise that the club will be able to be self-supporting by bigger attendances?

How will the club benefit from the "ancillary activities" at the development? Why would SOC want to subsidise the football club? It wouldn't be in its interests to pay money to a loss-making part of its group of companies just so that it can help that subsidiary pay rent back to it. Better to have no rent coming in and get rid of a loss-making company (ie the football club), rather than pay some income to the loss-making company so that it can afford to pay back SOME of it in rent.

I don't see how it matters whether SOC has some SUFC directors on its board. That could be changed at any point by SOC's shareholders voting to change it. And each company's directors must look into its own company's best interests. Why would SOC share some of its profits from the ancillary activities with SUFC? SUFC would, it seems, own no share in the ancillary activities and not receive a penny for them. I can see no financial reason why SOC would want to bail out the club or share the proceeds around. If SOC chose to subsidise SUFC, it would only be because the owners of the SOC chose to (because they liked the football club). What happens if Ron had a change of heart about the football club or he sold up and moved on? The SOC could be owned by someone who has no interest in the football club other than to make money for SOC. If the football club cannot make a net contribution to SOC, SOC can simply get rid of its loss-making arm.

Even if Ron Martin has been converted to be a true SUFC fan, what's to say the people behind the new SOC will be (whether immediately or after Ron Martin moves on)?

Come on, Ian. Are you happy with all the answers we've been given? Don't drop your bone just because a few people have criticised you! You've seen from the other thread that most people are behind what you've been doing. You've made progress, but it seems that there are still a lot of key unanswered questions.

 

[fatshrimp]

Can I ask what you (II), or anyone else for that matter, intends to do if you don't get satisfactory answers to all of these questions?

I'm not passing judgement on this particular 'crusade', I'm just curious about whether you expect to change to outcome of any of the plans (business or otherwise) that RM & the Directors may have.

 

[Hotman]

I don't want change, just reassurance

 

[Irate Ian]

Elstree and SZoners,



Knowing that rents have been written off or not demanded for use & occupation of RH does raise the question of how SUFC may be able to meet payment of a commercial rent at Fossetts, or what breach of covenant terms might be implemented, when and if default were to occurr.

I agree there are associated fine legal terms of a lease that will need to be negotiated by someone representing the club and SOC, which presents other potential issues as to how this can be achieved without conflicts of interest.


RM mentions having conducted "financial engineering exercises" following on from evidence presented to the planning inquiry. What happens when things might go wrong ? Safeguarding SUFC when tough times arise is most important to all concerned and that of course would include Ron himself.


He has also in PM's, invited meeting again at any time and I am sure that he would accomodate a small delegation of anyone else wishing to come along, as mentioned by Cricko [boring the pants off him], rebuke.

RM knows we are both are "reading from the same page" and that no personal vendetta or hidden agendas arise. Business is business.

Literally I have posted only the replies at the soonest possible date, I am yet to study or fully consider the answers or any implications.


RM has indicated he will arrange for 9a - 9c answers soon [as they were added after the initial series of questions were posted].


I suggest a period of contemplation and reasoned debate.

 

[Irate Ian]

Page 1 this thread = Relies to Questions 1 - 8


Page 4 this thread = Replies to Questions 9 - 15

 

[undercovershrimper]

can we now lay this all to bed there have been enough questions and meetings with Ron and i think we now know all we need to with regards to Rons intrest in the club its future and who if anyone will make any money out of it. Please now let him get on with the brilliant job he has been doing.

 

[steveo]

Can I ask what you (II), or anyone else for that matter, intends to do if you don't get satisfactory answers to all of these questions?

I would imagine he will continue sending emails to Ron, asking the same questions and waiting for the same answers.

Its seems quite clear form Ron's replies that e is probably getting a bit fed up with Ian, ad as Ian often says "Business is Business" but he cant seem to understand its Rons business ad not his own business.

Ian, why don't you just leave the bloke alone?

 

[OldBlueLady]

can we now lay this all to bed there have been enough questions and meetings with Ron and i think we now know all we need to with regards to Rons intrest in the club its future and who if anyone will make any money out of it. Please now let him get on with the brilliant job he has been doing.

I think RM has shared as much information as was requested, which is a darn sight more than most would have done. Let's just move on now, please.

 

[Irate Ian]

I would imagine he will continue sending emails to Ron, asking the same questions and waiting for the same answers.

Its seems quite clear form Ron's replies that e is probably getting a bit fed up with Ian, ad as Ian often says "Business is Business" but he cant seem to understand its Rons business ad not his own business.

Ian, why don't you just leave the bloke alone?

Beginning to think you may be RM's son in disguise.

In answer to your question: Because I care.

 

[davewebbsbrain]

Beginning to think you may be RM's son in disguise.

In answer to your question: Because I care.

I care but don't want to harrass RM 24/7..If you REALLY care, let RM do his job!!

What you really want is to find some descrepancy in RM's dealings so you can go "Huh, told you so, Ron is ripping us all off"

 

[Irate Ian]

I care but don't want to harrass RM 24/7..If you REALLY care, let RM do his job!!

He is doing it, confirmed as much yesterday whilst at airport travelling to Edinburgh.
He is not unhappy, why should you or others be ?

 

[davewebbsbrain]

He is doing it, confirmed as much yesterday whilst at airport travelling to Edinburgh.
He is not unhappy, why should you or others be ?

All joking and moaning aside, because what you are doing, and/or the way you are doing it is coming across very antagonistic.

Do you harrass the council, or the Police force like this to find out how they run?? Do you harrass the local school that your child goes to??

I know we are all on here because we love Southend United, obsessed maybe in some cases... but SUFC was here before you and I were born and it will be here long after we are both dead and buried, despite what you think about behind the scenes goings on. We survived the Jobson era, and I don't need to dig 24/7 to know that RM is looking after SUFC, and yes, looking after himself at the same time.

So, please ease off on this quest of yours, get behind the players, manager etc and really enjoy The Mighty Blues without doubting what goes on in the Boardroom!

 

[steveo]

Beginning to think you may be RM's son in disguise.

In answer to your question: Because I care.

And Im beginning to think you are danger of making yourself look even more stupid the longer it goes on. You completely miss the point every time.

ITS NOT YOUR FOOTBALL CLUB. YOU DONT OWN IT.

RON MARTIN DOES SO HE DECIDES WHAT DOES AND DOESNT HAPPEN AND HE DOESNT HAVE TO ANSWER TO YOU.

If you are not happy, make him an offer and buy the Club, then you can do what you want with it.

 

[Irate Ian]

And Im beginning to think you are danger of making yourself look even more stupid the longer it goes on. You completely miss the point every time.

ITS NOT YOUR FOOTBALL CLUB. YOU DONT OWN IT.

RON MARTIN DOES SO HE DECIDES WHAT DOES AND DOESNT HAPPEN AND HE DOESNT HAVE TO ANSWER TO YOU.

If you are not happy, make him an offer and buy the Club, then you can do what you want with it.

Your beginning to repeat yourself and shouting won't get you anywhere either.

 

[stevie_G_G_G]

And Im beginning to think you are danger of making yourself look even more stupid the longer it goes on. You completely miss the point every time.

ITS NOT YOUR FOOTBALL CLUB. YOU DONT OWN IT.

RON MARTIN DOES SO HE DECIDES WHAT DOES AND DOESNT HAPPEN AND HE DOESNT HAVE TO ANSWER TO YOU.

If you are not happy, make him an offer and buy the Club, then you can do what you want with it.

You're right that Ron doesn't have to answer to him or any of us (barring shareholders) but he IS answering to Ian and that can only be a good thing. So stop your whinging about someone who wants a few questions answered. I'm sure that if RM was getting that peeved off with Ian, then he would tell Ian that!!!

 

[steveo]

but he IS answering to Ian and that can only be a good thing

After Ian's perpetual bombardment and when he doesnt get a reply he continues to bombard the bloke.

So stop your whinging about someone who wants a few questions answered.

I was under the impression he has had a few answers but as you may have spotted on a previous post, verbal answers are not good enough for Ian, he now wants them in writing. And if he doesnt like them he keeps asking for them again.

Ian doesnt listen to anything he doesnt want to hear. He seems to think by keep asking he will finally get an answer he likes. He also seems to think Ron owes him something. Rons running a business which has been paid for with his own money. My point is, if you bought your own business, you would be entitled to do what you want with it without being pestered all the time.

And if i want to whinge at Ian, I will, I dont see how its any of your business.

 

[Irate Ian]

All joking and moaning aside, because what you are doing, and/or the way you are doing it is coming across very antagonistic.

Do you harrass the council, or the Police force like this to find out how they run?? Do you harrass the local school that your child goes to??

I know we are all on here because we love Southend United, obsessed maybe in some cases... but SUFC was here before you and I were born and it will be here long after we are both dead and buried, despite what you think about behind the scenes goings on. We survived the Jobson era, and I don't need to dig 24/7 to know that RM is looking after SUFC, and yes, looking after himself at the same time.

So, please ease off on this quest of yours, get behind the players, manager etc and really enjoy The Mighty Blues without doubting what goes on in the Boardroom!

As a prolific poster on SZ yourself, you may be aware there are many SZ members who do not post publicly here often, but who share the desire to be up-dated on the longer term issues raised.

Some have voiced concern at RM having gone very quiet, after previously enlisting wholesale support from fans during the planning appeal process.

I can assure you they are long standing supporters, but unlike you, they do share a quest for knowledge and to learn something [albeit in a broad brush manner and appreciating that proposals are presently fluid] as to how the club are to be placed to meet with the projected operating expenses at FF.

 

[davewebbsbrain]

As a prolific poster on SZ yourself, you may be aware there are many SZ members who do not post publicly here often, but who share the desire to be up-dated on the longer term issues raised.

Some have voiced concern at RM having gone very quiet, after previously enlisting wholesale support from fans during the planning appeal process.

I can assure you they are long standing supporters, but unlike you, they do share a quest for knowledge and to learn something [albeit in a broad brush manner and appreciating that proposals are presently fluid] as to the destiny/future of our club.

Steveo is right, you are so far up your own ar$e, you miss the point every time..no matter what RM tells you, you will never be happy...