RIP Maggie Thatcher.

[Pubey]

Did Labour? I didn't see them creating much in the way of opportunities for these communities?

I'm not a labour fan either

But this was a result of Scargills non negotiating attitude. There could have been a programme of closure but he wouldnt accept anything other than top money and full employment at non profitable pits. Blame Scargill for the miners problems or alternatively thank him for creating the momentum that took the Country out of union control.

Scargill was a ****

 

[OldBlueLady]

I thought the miners' all powerful unions should have had something in place to help its workforce to some extent? Scargill's men had already seen off Heath and Wilson, it needed a strong arm, and it took Maggie to break his hold.

 

[Pubey]

I thought the miners' all powerful unions should have had something in place to help its workforce to some extent? Scargill's men had already seen off Heath and Wilson, it needed a strong arm, and it took Maggie to break his hold.

Last time I checked, that's the governments job, especially for government employees. Both the miners union and the government should have been doing this, but neither did.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Italy got rid of their own fascist dictator a mere thirty years earlier rather than relying on the passage of time to do their dirty work for them.

Franco-for various reasons- (whatever you think of him), was smart enough to stay out of WW2.

 

[Mad Cyril]

Franco-for various reasons- (whatever you think of him), was smart enough to stay out of WW2.

So they wanted someone else to do their dirty work for them?

 

[Neil_F]

Maggie should have provided for them so that they could have finally stood on their own two feet .

You think that the government should have provided independence? You realise that is a complete contradiction?

I was born during Thatcher's second term so I'm not going to pretend to know what the country was like in 1979. I do know that what happened to the mining community was always going to happen, whether Thatcher had ever been elected or not.

For a start, the problem was to think of it as a community. It implies that it will go on regardless of what happens and that was never going to be the case. It was a practical demonstration of the fragility of being dependant on a single industry. That is why Scargill's actions were even more idiotic; he was betting literally everything that these people had. Kinnock said on Newsnight last night that Thatcher was prepared to negotiate but Scargill wasn't. He sacrificed the lives of those people for nothing.

Globalisation was always going to do for mining in the UK, especially given the unproductive industrial practices at the time. Economics always wins out over politics and you cannot do the impossible without running up a huge bill for everyone else.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

So they wanted someone else to do their dirty work for them?

That-as I'm sure you know full well-is an insult to all those brave men and women who died fighting Fascism on the Republican side in the Spanish Civil War and afterwards.

 

[Mad Cyril]

That-as I'm sure you know full well-is an insult to all those brave men and women who died fighting Fascism on the Republican side in the Spanish Civil War and afterwards.

Sitting on your backside with a bottle of Cava in the fridge certainly isn't much of a tribute.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Sitting on your backside with a bottle of Cava in the fridge certainly isn't much of a tribute.

I went on protests against "milk Snatcher" Thatcher when she was Education Secretary in Heath's government.Fortunately, I'd already left the country by the time she became PM (although I did come back for a year in 80/81 and was able to see at first hand the damage that her divisive policies were causing).

 

[BILLERICAY BLUE]

I went on protests against "milk Snatcher" Thatcher when she was Education Secretary in Heath's government.Fortunately, I'd already left the country by the time she became PM (although I did come back for a year in 80/81 and was able to see at first hand the damage that her divisive policies were causing).

But you didn't come back after to that to see the benefits that her policies had provided....

At the time she came to power, there were 3 unions that could bring the country to a standstill. Steel, mines and railways. How is it a democracy, that those 3 non-elected groups could effectively run the country. The unions needed breaking, and if there were a few casualties on the way, then that's just bad luck.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

But you didn't come back after to that to see the benefits that her policies had provided....

Funnily enough, I met loads of people in TEFL teaching in the 80/90's, who said they'd left the UK to avoid the very "benefits" which you claim Thatcherism provided.

 

[steveo]

Funnily enough, I met loads of people in TEFL teaching in the 80/90's, who clamed they'd left the UK to avoid the very "benefits" which you claim Thatcherism provided.

Good ****ing riddance to them then. And you.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Good ****ing riddance to them then. And you.

Charming.:finger2:

 

[Berrichonne shrimper]

Franco-for various reasons- (whatever you think of him), was smart enough to stay out of WW2.

Do you mean smart enough as in letting the Nazis use the civil war as a pratice for their bitzkreig attacks?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Do you mean smart enough as in letting the Nazis use the civil war as a pratice for their bitzkreig attacks?

Tony,
I'm not a fan of Franco's (for obvious reasons).Most people accept Paul Preston's (and others) argument that Spain was too exhausted by the civil war to even think about taking part in WW2.

Of course, the attacks you refer to (including an infamous one on Barcelona by Italian planes) were warcrimes,IMO.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Yes the mines were unprofitable and yes something had to be done. However she did nothing to help the miners when she took the jobs from them. these were low-income, low educated people in towns and cities with no alternative opportunities. It's easy to say they should have 'hustled' to make something for themselves but that was near impossible (from my understanding). Maggie should have provided for them so that they could have finally stood on their own two feet but she hated northerners a and couldn't give a toss. The attitude on here regarding northerners is ****ing typical of the attitude the thatcher instilled. She was manipulative and divisive and played the 'working man' argument to ensure the divide between the north and south widened.

Thatcher didn't hate northerners and she didn't hate the working class; she hated those who opposed her. Compare the fortunes of the Nottinghamshire mining towns with the Yorkshire mining towns.

The real tragedy is that idiots like Scargill and Hatton put thousands of families through hardship for flawed ideological reasons. They picked the wrong battles. Instead of fighting for investment in alternative sustainable careers in industries with a long-term future their short-sightedness and pig-headedness caused misery for many. Those who were willing to work with Thatcher benefited - including millions of working class - those who worked against her were crushed. That type of attitude wasn't exclusive to the right, it's just the right got to implement it as they were victorious and the unions - who were equally as divisive and manipulative lost. As rancid and heartless as you think Thatcher may have been to striking workers Scargill and the unions were as rancid and heartless to those who tried to cross the picket line to feed their families but without the condemnation for their lack of humanity.

 

[OldBlueLady]

I was born during Thatcher's second term so I'm not going to pretend to know what the country was like in 1979. I do know that what happened to the mining community was always going to happen, whether Thatcher had ever been elected or not.

I was coming towards the end of my GCEs, anyone around then will recall the Winter of Discontent...

http://libcom.org/history/1978-1979-winter-of-discontent

Successive Labour Governments under Wilson and Callaghan, and prior to that the Tories under Heath, had failed miserably to get a hold on the unions holding the rest of the country to ransom. For those of you that moan when the tube drivers go on strike, imagine that but in EVERYTHING that affects your daily life, not just travel to and from work. It took a strong woman to get a grip, to slightly misquote a favourite saying of the time, she had more balls than any man in Parliament.

 

[pickledseal]

My friend Alex has set up http://donthatedonate.com/ as a response to Thatcher's death. Getting national & international press!

 

[steveo]

Fail

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

I don't understand why more people don't want a day-off.

It doesn't matter if you want to celebrate her life or her demise, a day-off work is a day-off work.

Give us a public holiday!