Jay Simpson and Ricky Holmes training with Blues

[Yorkshire Blue]

I agree we can make highly selective arguments to support one thing or another. At the same time we can say Holmes has scored so many more goals because our wingers are so young and inexperienced- except of course that's not true either- Akinola 27, ANG 25, RHF 23...

Of course I can only go on NT fans analysis of what he brought/how he was playing in Nov & Dec and probably they know as little about football as the rest of us/or at least may see the same things completely differently. Plus of course the match highlights. MM can of course watch all those games in full.

Anyway looks like the person that matters may be impressed- we will see either way this week I am sure.

Or you could go on MM's judgement?

Signing them isn't the no brainer you keep on saying it is. They clearly aren't the players they once were. Seeing them in training and seeing their rates of improvement may allow MM to better gauge how close they can get to the players they use to be.

 

[londonblue]

Or you could go on MM's judgement?

Signing them isn't the no brainer you keep on saying it is. They clearly aren't the players they once were. Seeing them in training and seeing their rates of improvement may allow MM to better gauge how close they can get to the players they use to be.

Of course, if we're only signing them until the end of the season then the longer we leave it the less we have to pay them!

 

[kentblues]

Or you could go on MM's judgement?

Signing them isn't the no brainer you keep on saying it is. They clearly aren't the players they once were. Seeing them in training and seeing their rates of improvement may allow MM to better gauge how close they can get to the players they use to be.

I've said all along we have to go on MM's judgement?

Whilst we wait some will argue the case for and against based on what we know? Or we could wait and not have an opinion and post absolutely nothing. In which case why bother with the thread? Or by extension with the Zone :-)

I suspect we are really ultimately in violent agreement..

 

[in the know]

I think over the last few years RMs had enough of coughing up wages for players that cannot train or play due to injuries. For example he got fed up with Kyps circumstances and when you start thinking of the amount of very long term injuries we've had such as Ralph, Lennon, Hyam, Hopper, Barret, etc THere are loads more..)... its probably understandable he wants to take as limited risk as possible when signing or taking on new financial player commitments. (I appreciate its not the players fault). Maybe some current ongoing decisions, announcements, registrations, deals, etc, are on hold until RM knows the player can actually physically play for us. Just a thought....

 

[crangoner]

An interesting read

So you've been relegated from League Two. What happens next? | Martin Belam

Chin up Leyton Orient fans – it’s not all doom and gloom in non-league. But as any football supporter knows, it’s the hope that kills you

www.theguardian.com

"Barnet spent only a couple of years at Conference level."

This went out of date very quickly!

 

[Clarky176]

I think over the last few years RMs had enough of coughing up wages for players that cannot train or play due to injuries. For example he got fed up with Kyps circumstances and when you start thinking of the amount of very long term injuries we've had such as Ralph, Lennon, Hyam, Hopper, Barret, etc THere are loads more..)... its probably understandable he wants to take as limited risk as possible when signing or taking on new financial player commitments. (I appreciate its not the players fault). Maybe some current ongoing decisions, announcements, registrations, deals, etc, are on hold until RM knows the player can actually physically play for us. Just a thought....

Have wondered what has happened to Kyps, can you enlighten us more on what's happened with him?

 

[crangoner]

I think over the last few years RMs had enough of coughing up wages for players that cannot train or play due to injuries. For example he got fed up with Kyps circumstances and when you start thinking of the amount of very long term injuries we've had such as Ralph, Lennon, Hyam, Hopper, Barret, etc THere are loads more..)... its probably understandable he wants to take as limited risk as possible when signing or taking on new financial player commitments. (I appreciate its not the players fault). Maybe some current ongoing decisions, announcements, registrations, deals, etc, are on hold until RM knows the player can actually physically play for us. Just a thought....

But doesn't this rely on Ranger, Holmes and Simpson asking for longer term (going into 2021/22) contract lengths? Would RM really be worried about getting burnt on until the end of the season deals? That is if Ranger, Holmes and Simpson would take short term deals.

 

[Medway Blue]

Have wondered what has happened to Kyps, can you enlighten us more on what's happened with him?

The club tried to offload him permanently earlier in the season I believe. Don't think he's in any plans at all really.

 

[Clarky176]

The club tried to offload him permanently earlier in the season I believe. Don't think he's in any plans at all really.

Shame, prefer him to Rich T and MMN at the back as our youngster, suppose at 23 he's younger than Hobson and Cordner though.

 

[Leigh_Seasider]

@rigsby - my philosophy is the same as yours. Many on here are hypothesising what these players will be like based on their performances from several years ago. MM and his team will have been watching them in training, seeing how their abilities complement the existing squad and how their personality fits in. They will also, I assume, have fitness monitors on them to see what their bodies are like in February 2021.

If after all of that, MM deems they are or are not worth adding to the squad then I'll go with that judgement as MM strikes me as quite a methodical and thorough person. Frankly it's worth a lot more than what someone read on a Northampton forum or who saw Simpson score a couple of screamers for Orient 5 years ago!

Yeah, this. I remember some people were saying Ridgewell was a great signing and saying we should sign Mohsni, who both Grimsby and Barnet (check their league positions) thought was not good enough. I’ll trust MM on this one.

 

[NZamba Legend]

Bottom line for me is that there are good reasons for signing any of these three players, or even all three of them. But there are also good reasons NOT to sign them. I just don't think it's possible for MM and RM to do the 'right' thing here, because all strategies or combinations of decisions are high risk. And we have to be realistic over what kinds of deals players will accept. Under current circumstances they are not going to play for nothing or per match.

 

[SHRIMPERPETER]

Bottom line for me is that there are good reasons for signing any of these three players, or even all three of them. But there are also good reasons NOT to sign them. I just don't think it's possible for MM and RM to do the 'right' thing here, because all strategies or combinations of decisions are high risk. And we have to be realistic over what kinds of deals players will accept. Under current circumstances they are not going to play for nothing or per match.

Thought I remember reading somewhere that Ranger said he'd play for nothing??

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Have wondered what has happened to Kyps, can you enlighten us more on what's happened with him?

I just think his development has been stymied by injury.

He's basically had two years out of the game. He got injured at Wimbledon in late 2018 - towards the end of that run of horrendous long term injuries - think it was a ruptured achilles. Finally got fit enough to play again after suffering a further injury setback then Covid came along and ended the season.

It's hard to return after two years out anyway, let alone build up confidence in your body when returning from injury. Not having that match sharpness, the loss of muscle, maybe not having that confidence in your leg it all acts to tilt the odds further against a player. Add that to two years' lost development at a stage where an individual's career should be arcing upwards and it's a huge blow to his development. It's why I fear for Lewis Gard too

 

[Clarky176]

I just think his development has been stymied by injury.

He's basically had two years out of the game. He got injured at Wimbledon in late 2018 - towards the end of that run of horrendous long term injuries - think it was a ruptured achilles. Finally got fit enough to play again after suffering a further injury setback then Covid came along and ended the season.

It's hard to return after two years out anyway, let alone build up confidence in your body when returning from injury. Not having that match sharpness, the loss of muscle, maybe not having that confidence in your leg it all acts to tilt the odds further against a player. Add that to two years' lost development at a stage where an individual's career should be arcing upwards and it's a huge blow to his development. It's why I fear for Lewis Gard too

Good post, sometimes a player like that needs time and stability to return to normal, neither of which we have had/can afford right now.

 

[Jai]

Are you suggesting we can’t sign players again hence why Mellis came in and is now immediately ill ( who believes this nonsense I’ll never know) and bow ranger and Holmes are dithering around in the snow ....

No idea. But nothing would surprise me with this club anymore.

 

[Jai]

It's one thing withholding facts which is his prerogative, but the example Strykr gave regarding Ranger demonstrates both half-truths and actually bordering on untruths, which are totally unacceptable and disrespectful to supporters who have invested heavily into our football club, both financially and emotionally.

Do you think MM would still be in a job if he told the truth about everything to the fans?

I don't like it much either, but clearly the bloke is in an incredibly tough position, given that the club is a total basket case and there are probably all kinds of embarrassing situations going on behind the scenes. And as others have mentioned, the fans don't have a right to know everything, particularly if it would compromise business-sensitive information. Unfortunately for him he is shoved in front of a microphone or dictaphone every day of the week, meaning he has to come up with answers to things he can't answer or he'll probably get sacked. Not too many CEOs or managers in the real world have to deal with that.

 

[southendkid]

We are already in debt. Just sign them to the end of the season, I'm sure both players will accept that. Are forward line of badship/akinola/acquah have got a grand total of 5 goals....... no way we will survive with the current forward line!

Ranger would accept a short term deal (and possibly already has according to some posters) but I'm not convinced Holmes would. The excuse Northampton have used for not offering him a deal is that they apparently want to keep the squad size low in case multiple few agents suddenly become available to them, which seems very flimsy to me (how many affordable League One quality free agents are there in mid-February?). I suspect having proven his fitness Holmes is looking for a much longer deal than the end of the season (which is pretty common for players near the end of their career, we've done a few of those deals ourselves) and it's why Northampton ended up telling him they weren't interested.

 

[Stuart W]

P

Do you think MM would still be in a job if he told the truth about everything to the fans?

I don't like it much either, but clearly the bloke is in an incredibly tough position, given that the club is a total basket case and there are probably all kinds of embarrassing situations going on behind the scenes. And as others have mentioned, the fans don't have a right to know everything, particularly if it would compromise business-sensitive information. Unfortunately for him he is shoved in front of a microphone or dictaphone every day of the week, meaning he has to come up with answers to things he can't answer or he'll probably get sacked. Not too many CEOs or managers in the real world have to deal with that.

Perhaps you should have properly read the first part of my first sentence.

 

[Jai]

P

Perhaps you should have properly read the first part of my first sentence.

I suppose you're right, he could just sit there and say no comment to questions he doesn't like or take the Sol Campbell approach of "I don't know" which led to Sol being roundly ridiculed by the fan base (as well of course as being a lie because he did know, he just didn't want to say). I would probably prefer that. But I'm honestly not really sure he can win either way, particularly if things have come to light on social media etc that he might not be aware of. The Ranger situation in particular is a PR nightmare

 

[Napster]

I suppose you're right, he could just sit there and say no comment to questions he doesn't like or take the Sol Campbell approach of "I don't know" which led to Sol being roundly ridiculed by the fan base (as well of course as being a lie because he did know, he just didn't want to say). I would probably prefer that. But I'm honestly not really sure he can win either way, particularly if things have come to light on social media etc that he might not be aware of. The Ranger situation in particular is a PR nightmare

His latest IG post is him and bad boy Mellis in the car driving to training.