Relegation appeal

[Mad Cyril]

I for one am looking forward to Ron being ushered past the press under a blanket into EFL HQ and leaving with a fist raised in victory and three LDV vans runner up medals around his neck.

 

[Stuart W]

I could not give one solitary **** if the Molesley fan club and the Torquay supporter want to call me names because I want Southend to stay in the league by any means necessary.

Well you're on your own mate. If you want success constantly and can't accept failure, I can give you the address of the Manchester City club shop, so you can reinvent yourself in their gear.

 

[Tribal Chief]

Well you're on your own mate. If you want success constantly and can't accept failure, I can give you the address of the Manchester City club shop, so you can reinvent yourself in their gear.

So every supporter on here wants to have a big hug with the Torquay usurper and surrender with our tails between our legs? I think you’re mistaken. I’ve supported Southend for 41 years, man and boy, so with regards to your last point, you can kindly go and **** yourself. Mate.

 

[kentblues]

If you apply that logic, then removing relegation from League Two affects the integrity of that competition for this season, and therefore there should be no promotion/relegation between League One and League Two this season.

There are two relegated clubs playing against clubs tomorrow that needs results to secure automatic promotion/play-off places respectively. Does that affect the integrity of League Two knowing they are already down?

Does the fact that were were under a self-inflicted transfer embargo for the first 15 matches of the season affect the integrity of League Two this season, because the majority of those teams got an easy three points against us whereas the others played us when we were at full-strength?

I think we can extend ever more tortuous arguments to suggest further dubious outcomes- fundamentally the argument to the EFL will be; repeatedly you said this last year so now you need to be consistent.

As I say, it’s a repeat of last year in a way.

Last year we absolutely deserved to be relegated.

The pesky league rules (the ones the EFL are supposed to uphold) said there could be no relegation. So they retrospectively changed the rules after the event - to get away with it they went through a tortuous process of getting the clubs to go through numerous proposals before eventually agreeing the one they wanted.

This year we absolutely deserve to go down.

The tortuous narrative the EFL came up with last year, and were so adamant was essential for the integrity of the game, inconveniently can be quoted back at them creating an issue with relegating from L2 into a league that did not have promotion and relegation in the division they want to promote into the EFL from. How annoying for them.

I have no sympathy at all.

Now I am sure they will also find an utterly tortuous construct of why what they said last year isn’t valid this. But by confusing what we DESERVE (relegation) and what strictly should happen based on what the EFL said last year are two entirely different things.

The EFL has no integrity, if we appeal they will, if need be, do what they did last time and get the clubs to retrospectively change/agree what should happen, and it will waste a bundle time to our detriment.

For that reason i’m out. But it’s wrong to suggest Grimsby and ourselves do not have s strong argument.

BTW beware the NL makes the EFL look like exemplars of competence..

 

[southendkid]

The EFL made a rod for their own backs last year by saying both promotions and relegations had to take place and if they didn’t then there couldn’t be no promotion for EFL to the Prem (eg Leeds).
If they were consistent there would be no relegation from L2- they could allow for 2 additional clubs in L2 as a get out.
This said don’t worry. As you will find out in the EFL rules are only guidelines and they have their own version of the Ministry of Truth.
You will get promotedI am sure. But it’s worth noting that the Chairman is only reminding the EFL about what they repeatedly said last year.

How is accepting 2 promoted clubs from the NL but not relegating anyone consistent with their previous stance of saying all promotions and relegations in the EFL have to take place?

Surely relegating us is the consistent approach since that means the EFL is carrying out all promotions and relegations like they did last season.

 

[Tribal Chief]

How is accepting 2 promoted clubs from the NL but not relegating anyone consistent with their previous stance of saying all promotions and relegations in the EFL have to take place?

Surely relegating us is the consistent approach since that means the EFL is carrying out all promotions and relegations like they did last season.

You passionately supported Molesley and now you’re championing Torquay taking our place. Do you enjoy relegation and humiliation?

 

[RHB]

So every supporter on here wants to have a big hug with the Torquay usurper and surrender with our tails between our legs? I think you’re mistaken. I’ve supported Southend for 41 years, man and boy, so with regards to your last point, you can kindly go and **** yourself. Mate.

Make your point by all means @Patch Boomhauer, but ease off on the abusive bits to other posters. I'm asking nicely.

 

[Tribal Chief]

Make your point by all means @Patch Boomhauer, but ease off on the abusive bits to other posters. I'm asking nicely.

Point taken and I apologize for the abusive language. I will reiterate my point somewhat more elegantly: why I should go and support another club because I think we should explore the possibilities of staying in the league is completely beyond me.

 

[kentblues]

How is accepting 2 promoted clubs from the NL but not relegating anyone consistent with their previous stance of saying all promotions and relegations in the EFL have to take place?

Surely relegating us is the consistent approach since that means the EFL is carrying out all promotions and relegations like they did last season.

No - when there was the argument about if there was not promotion and relegation from EFL divisions a muted solution you will recall was to increase the number of teams in the Prem. it was a way to square the circle of the Prem not accepting relegation if the EFL didn’t (so for Prem and EFL now read EFL and NL)

 

[southendkid]

You passionately supported Molesley and now you’re championing Torquay taking our place. Do you enjoy relegation and humiliation?

I'm struggling to see how mounting a legal challenge that has zero chance of working isn't humiliation, if it was any other club you'd be laughing at how tinpot they were for trying it. If we had a case it'd be different but we don't.

 

[kentblues]

I'm struggling to see how mounting a legal challenge that has zero chance of working isn't humiliation, if it was any other club you'd be laughing at how tinpot they were for trying it. If we had a case it'd be different but we don't.

We do have a case. It’s just that we know from experience what the likely outcome will be. That said it’s Grimsby who are mounting the challenge/appeal - given that why would we undermine it by not supporting it? I guess why would we if it’s happening.

 

[southendkid]

No - when there was the argument about if there was not promotion and relegation from EFL divisions a muted solution you will recall was to increase the number of teams in the Prem. it was a way to square the circle of the Prem not accepting relegation if the EFL didn’t (so for Prem and EFL now read EFL and NL)

Was it the EFL suggesting that? I thought that suggestion was from the PL and the EFL were against that proposal (insisting that the PL needed to relegate 3 teams so that the Championship wasn't undersubscribed), I could be wrong though since it was so long ago.

 

[Exiled Shrimper]

No - when there was the argument about if there was not promotion and relegation from EFL divisions a muted solution you will recall was to increase the number of teams in the Prem. it was a way to square the circle of the Prem not accepting relegation if the EFL didn’t (so for Prem and EFL now read EFL and NL)

IIRC the argument about no relegations being applied last season was when there was a threat that the season wouldn't finish at all due to Covid and it would be unfair to punish teams for an incomplete season (70-75% complete), but those that were top of their division (primarily Liverpool as champions-elect in the Premier League, but also those in promotion places) deserved to be rewarded. In the end, the top two divisions were completed and the next four (L1 to NLN/S) were decided on points per game but with the play-offs taking place.

This season is a different situation to that because the top 5 divisions in the pyramid (PL to NL) are being completed. There isn't a reason for a relegation to be unfair (where there are promoted teams to replace those relegated).

 

[Stuart W]

So every supporter on here wants to have a big hug with the Torquay usurper and surrender with our tails between our legs? I think you’re mistaken. I’ve supported Southend for 41 years, man and boy, so with regards to your last point, you can kindly go and **** yourself. Mate.

I have total respect for your 41 years support. I too have been a long suffering fan (for 54 years), and I am feeling the pain just as much as you.
Yes, the Manchester City comment was a little low, but be honest, would you really want us to keep our league place on a technicality, which if it was the other way round you would be going absolutely demented with anger about?

 

[Gull1899]

You passionately supported Molesley and now you’re championing Torquay taking our place. Do you enjoy relegation and humiliation?

It probably won’t be us anyway. The point isn’t that anyone likes relegation, but if happens & it’s how you react to it that matters. This is just a frivolous & pathetic attempt to get out of the fate your club deserves. Just like we deserved the relegations we’ve had

 

[Maidstone Shrimper]

It seems to be that this challenge is from Grimsby with "input" from Southend. If that's the case it would be strange if Ron had declined to support Grimsby. Would he have been praised for taking the honourable stance by our fans? Despite that you can be sure that when we're playing in the National League next season the hate will be equally directed towards both teams.

 

[Exiled Shrimper]

I think we can extend ever more tortuous arguments to suggest further dubious outcomes- fundamentally the argument to the EFL will be; repeatedly you said this last year so now you need to be consistent.

As I say, it’s a repeat of last year in a way.

Last year we absolutely deserved to be relegated.

The pesky league rules (the ones the EFL are supposed to uphold) said there could be no relegation. So they retrospectively changed the rules after the event - to get away with it they went through a tortuous process of getting the clubs to go through numerous proposals before eventually agreeing the one they wanted.

This year we absolutely deserve to go down.

The tortuous narrative the EFL came up with last year, and were so adamant was essential for the integrity of the game, inconveniently can be quoted back at them creating an issue with relegating from L2 into a league that did not have promotion and relegation in the division they want to promote into the EFL from. How annoying for them.

I have no sympathy at all.

Now I am sure they will also find an utterly tortuous construct of why what they said last year isn’t valid this. But by confusing what we DESERVE (relegation) and what strictly should happen based on what the EFL said last year are two entirely different things.

The EFL has no integrity, if we appeal they will, if need be, do what they did last time and get the clubs to retrospectively change/agree what should happen, and it will waste a bundle time to our detriment.

For that reason i’m out. But it’s wrong to suggest Grimsby and ourselves do not have s strong argument.

BTW beware the NL makes the EFL look like exemplars of competence..

I understand the argument that the league rules were changed (there was nothing in the rules about how a season would be determined if all the matches in a division weren't completed, so the clubs had to vote on that in order for unweighted points per game to be applied), but this season the top five divisions in the pyramid are being completed, so there's no reason for anything to be voted and determined in the tortuous process you have outlined.

We've been relegated, as you say, deservedly, on the basis of a 46-game season. And whoever replaces us will have been promoted, deservedly, either automatically or via the play-offs, on the basis of a 42-game season being completed (it would have been 44 games, but Dover withdrew from the competition and their results were expunged).

That is promotion and relegation protecting the integrity outlined by the EFL last season, largely in an argument to ensure that the leading Championship clubs could earn promotion to the Premier League, because if they had not been promoted, then they would - unlike us and Grimsby, presumably - have had the finances to fund a legal protest.

 

[MisterStubbs]

Nice one Ron, all you’re doing is painting an even bigger target on our backs next season. Great job.. you arse.

 

[kentblues]

IIRC the argument about no relegations being applied last season was when there was a threat that the season wouldn't finish at all due to Covid and it would be unfair to punish teams for an incomplete season (70-75% complete), but those that were top of their division (primarily Liverpool as champions-elect in the Premier League, but also those in promotion places) deserved to be rewarded. In the end, the top two divisions were completed and the next four (L1 to NLN/S) were decided on points per game but with the play-offs taking place.

This season is a different situation to that because the top 5 divisions in the pyramid (PL to NL) are being completed. There isn't a reason for a relegation to be unfair (where there are promoted teams to replace those relegated).

The very reason the EFL had to retrospectively change their rules last year was to allow seasons to be completed via points per game. You will recall relegation and promotion could only take place under the rules if seasons were complete (defined as all fixtures having been fulfilled). Therefore all divisions were ultimately complete last year also.

The relevant argument from last year is about there having to be relegations in the EFL else the Prem would not relegate either- and the Prem clubs were unwilling to accept an expansion of the Prem for one season as a muted solution. For Prem/EFL read EFL/NL if the same arguments used by the EFL (and Prem) last year are to be applied.

And of course the NLN/S were not completed due to Covid.

Don't get me wrong- I am not saying for one second we deserve a reprieve. I'm just saying that is very different from not accepting we have a case. Two different arguments.

 

[Maldon Shrimper]

Since I started this thread had the opportunity to take a look at the Grimsby Fans site and they to have a lengthy thread as well.Its worth having a look to see their view and opinions.