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Relegation appeal

Surely that's an argument in favour of relegating us? The EFL is doing promotions therefore they have to do relegations, the National League isn't run by the EFL so their policy on relegation has nothing to do with them.

And the EFL isn’t run by the Prem but the EFL made very clear the implications regarding the Prem for the EFL not promoting and relegating.
 
I would think that it will be still relegation possibly if they do agree that we and Grimsby have a case even though it will not happen ,it could be some sort of financial benefit but really is it really worth it
Could open a can of worms

The can of worms was opened up last year unfortunately..
 
I don't agree with it and think there's zero chance it will happen. How can you tell Torquay or whoever that they can't come back up after winning the NL. Imagine how we'd feel in that situation. Plus you'd have all the relegated clubs from the divisions above all wanting the same outcome for the same reason.

Just take it on the chin Ron. we've been awful for 2 or 3 years, we deserve it. Now we need to earn the right to return.
Re How can you tell Torquay or whoever that they can't come back up after winning the NL.

That is precisely one of the main arguments used by the EFL last year as to why there HAD to be, indeed it was essential to be, relegations in the EFL- otherwise substitute Leeds (rather than Torquay) re how unfair it would be because the league above (Prem rather than EFL then) would then not relegate also, and therefore not accept teams coming up (unless they were to accept more teams in the Prem for a year)

I’m sure the arguments are coming bank?
By the EFL own repeated statements last year either there should be no promotions from the NL or in this case the EFL run with two extra teams in L2 for a season.

Don’t get me wrong I have no doubt the EFL will fundamentally disagree with themselves here if it suits. But I can understand the point being made.

PS I believe the suggestion will be two additional teams in L2 for one season
 
You absolutely cannot stop two coming up from the NL for us to stay in League Two. Completely unfair and I wouldn’t want to be in League Two if it meant teams who have worked hard and achieved their chance by merit were denied it because of us. If it’s 26 teams for a season and 4 go down instead of 2 then I can just about get on board with that.

But even then, we’ve been so poor the last god knows how many seasons and this is exactly what we deserve. It still makes me a bit uncomfortable we’re trying to wriggle out of it and limp on.
 
As a Torquay fan all I can say to your chairman is this , ‘what if the situations were reversed?’ And after a long time in the Conference, infact a season in Conference South, you fight & put together a really good team under a great manager that have been through a marathon of a season which has been made harder that we could’nt be there at the ground- to go through all of that & then for the teams above to go ‘ you know I don’t like the sound of the Conference, so no relegation please’

The arrogance of it is amazing. Even if this isn’t successful to even have the possibility that the possibility promotion could be snatched away is so disheartening.

Yourselves & Grimsby not coming down with grace isn’t a good look
 
Wouldn't it just stop promotion from the National League?

There is no relegation from the National League because the leagues below were unable to finish their season and only played 19 games out of the possible 40.

I can't see the appeal being successful. If it is, then won't League 1 clubs being relegated make the same appeal? Then what about Championship clubs? Premier league?
There is no relegation from the National (premier) League or promotion from either the North or South leagues because the North and South member clubs voted to suspend their season, based on the related costs of continuing.
 
Nor is the Prem ran by them, but they that made the point unless they had promotion and the relegation then the Prem would not relegate and hence no promotion from the Championship.
In the current scenario for Prem read EFL and for EFL read NL. I would say they can’t have it both ways but of course...
I'm still not seeing how that's inconsistent, last year affected the structure of the leagues the EFL is responsible for, this case doesn't.

The premier league relegating clubs last year directly affected the EFL because if that didn't happen then the Championship would have been light on numbers this year if they still had promotion. That isn't the case with the National League, them scrapping relegation from the National League has zero impact on the EFL so long as they still have promotion into League 2, so why is it their problem?
 
As a Torquay fan all I can say to your chairman is this , ‘what if the situations were reversed?’ And after a long time in the Conference, infact a season in Conference South, you fight & put together a really good team under a great manager that have been through a marathon of a season which has been made harder that we could’nt be there at the ground- to go through all of that & then for the teams above to go ‘ you know I don’t like the sound of the Conference, so no relegation please’

The arrogance of it is amazing. Even if this isn’t successful to even have the possibility that the possibility promotion could be snatched away is so disheartening.

Yourselves & Grimsby not coming down with grace isn’t a good look

I don't think many fans would deny that we deserve to be relegated and it's certainly good to see Torquay with a great chance of returning to the EFL (beware of counting your chickens, or gulls, though because Sutton have a game in hand). Always enjoyed my visits to Plainmoor.

However you can't really blame Grimsby and Southend for trying - what if the situation was reversed and Torquay were due to be relegated in a season when the National League has included a club who refused to play and one or two others (KL, Chesterfield, Weymouth) who furloughed players while, in Chesterfield's case, signing new ones?

Don't worry, the EFL won't change anything. I hope Torquay are promoted and good luck next season.
 
I don't think many fans would deny that we deserve to be relegated and it's certainly good to see Torquay with a great chance of returning to the EFL (beware of counting your chickens, or gulls, though because Sutton have a game in hand). Always enjoyed my visits to Plainmoor.

However you can't really blame Grimsby and Southend for trying - what if the situation was reversed and Torquay were due to be relegated in a season when the National League has included a club who refused to play and one or two others (KL, Chesterfield, Weymouth) who furloughed players while, in Chesterfield's case, signing new ones?

Don't worry, the EFL won't change anything. I hope Torquay are promoted and good luck next season.

Oh trust me as a Torquay fan we know disaster is just around the corner, infact I think it’ll be either Stockport or Sutton (much easier fixture list left than us) who’ll go up.

But it’s the principle that even our chance of it could be taken away & for this appeal to call relegation ‘unfair’ is ridiculous. It’s awful getting relegated but it also is most definitely fair. What wouldn’t be fair is denying the 2 from NL going up.
Has it been a tough year in the NL? Yes of course particularly for the smaller clubs but we’ve got through the season pretty well in my opinion despite COVID, it’s a bit much for this appeal saying it’s ‘unfair’ when in reality it’s 2 clubs acting solely & only in their own interest with disregard for any other clubs or the football pyramid in general (Superleague vibes anyone?!)

if it was us I honestly would feel awful preventing another club being promoted just to save our own skin

If we don’t go up we’re pretty hospitable down here in Devon- & also I am looking forward to a trip to Southend for the first time!
 
As a Torquay fan all I can say to your chairman is this , ‘what if the situations were reversed?’ And after a long time in the Conference, infact a season in Conference South, you fight & put together a really good team under a great manager that have been through a marathon of a season which has been made harder that we could’nt be there at the ground- to go through all of that & then for the teams above to go ‘ you know I don’t like the sound of the Conference, so no relegation please’

The arrogance of it is amazing. Even if this isn’t successful to even have the possibility that the possibility promotion could be snatched away is so disheartening.

Yourselves & Grimsby not coming down with grace isn’t a good look

But equally if you were Southend chairman wouldn't you explore all options at remaining in League 2.

I think the proposal is that the NL teams will still be promoted, with League 2 running with additional teams next season - so no harm to the promoted teams
 
If we've an issue with this, we should also take issue at the team in 21st place furloughing half a dozen players after making nine January signings.

The EFL were never going to jeopardise their own integrity by commenting on the National League situation before the season finishes. There could be lots of unknown breaches even within the EFL that we don't know about yet.
 
I think the key differences between the arguments relating to last season's promotion and relegation from/to the Premier League and this season between the EFL and National League are timing and money.

Last season, all divisions in the EFL and the PL had completed roughly 70-75% of the fixtures. The three divisions in the EFL were given the opportunity to vote on whether they should attempt to complete, or apply an unweighted points per game (and even then there was the Tranmere Rovers proposal that was considered and thrown out, and the Sunderland/Ipswich one about expanding the play-offs). Leagues One and Two voted to apply PPG and complete the play-offs only, the Championship joined the Premier League in playing to a conclusion.

The EFL statement read: "The principle of relegation across all three divisions is integral to the integrity of the pyramid, from the Premier League down to the National League, provided we have assurances that the National League will start season 2020/21 (i.e. the relegated Club in League Two has somewhere to play)."

There was some suggestion that if the Championship didn't complete their season, the relegated Premier League clubs would legally contest their relegation and replacement with clubs that had only played 75% of their season. If the Championship were unable to promote clubs, then those such as Leeds would presumably have followed suit, so they finished. Whilst ourselves and Grimsby can explore possibilities with the EFL and make a suggestion that it should be looked it, we've not got the money to mount a legal challenge, surely?

The National League also voted to curtail the 2019/20 season on points per game and play their play-offs to follow Leagues One and Two, but there was no relegation from National League South or North because Steps 3-6 had been declared null and void. The promotions and relegations between Step 1 (National League) and Step 2 (National League North and South) still took place, even though there was no relegation from Step 2.

This season, National League North and South had only completed 40-50% of their fixtures at the point that the season was curtailed in 2020/21. There's no way you could apply points per game at that stage, so there was no promotion. This had the knock-on effect that there is no relegation.

But, just like there was promotion and relegation between the National League and National League North and South in 2019/20, the tier above where seasons were null and void, there should be promotions and relegations between League Two and the National League, the tier above where the season was curtailed in 2020/21.

Rather than regulations being applied inconsistently, this is actually being consistent with the decisions applied last season, even acknowledging that this season the decision to curtail National League North and South was taken when maybe 40-60% of fixtures had been completed by clubs in the National League, who are now playing to a conclusion, rather than the 70-75% when Steps 3-6 were null and void in 2019/20.

I watched Notts County vs Sutton United on BT Sport on Tuesday; the decision to curtail National Leagues North and South had no influence on the competitiveness of that fixture, Dover withdraw, so their records were expunged, and although one or two clubs have struggled to field full-strength sides in some matches, I wouldn't say the lack of relegation has had an overdue influence on the integrity of the competition.
 
If You aren't good enough to finish in the top 22 then you deserve to lose your place. It's as simple as that. It's not the (soon to be) promoted NL clubs fault that relegation was scrapped
 
As a Torquay fan all I can say to your chairman is this , ‘what if the situations were reversed?’ And after a long time in the Conference, infact a season in Conference South, you fight & put together a really good team under a great manager that have been through a marathon of a season which has been made harder that we could’nt be there at the ground- to go through all of that & then for the teams above to go ‘ you know I don’t like the sound of the Conference, so no relegation please’

The arrogance of it is amazing. Even if this isn’t successful to even have the possibility that the possibility promotion could be snatched away is so disheartening.

Yourselves & Grimsby not coming down with grace isn’t a good look

If the situation was reversed then your chairman would be looking into how he could stay in the EFL and us shrimpers would be angry.

Before the season started there was serious talk of regional leagues below the Championship because of covid. I agreed with that at the time. So i'm not being a sore loser as i said back then you cant justify Torquay playing Hartlepool when people cant attend a relatives funeral.

Clubs in the NL have been forced into more debt than they expected which means one more October lockdown and the league will collapse. That would be unfair on your club if you weren't promoted and equally on those relegated.

Having full league programs was driven from the top down by the very same people who want to start a European Super league. Good luck to the two clubs who will get promoted from the NL but it is at a cost to far more clubs than just the like of Dover.
 
**** Torquay and **** what’s fair. If Ron and Grimsby Ron can pull this off, that would be marvelous. I don’t understand the mentality of accepting non-League purgatory because we don’t want to upset people.

Really..? Is that what you want to be as a club? Screw integrity, fairness & what’s right as long as it saves your own skin eh? This is like the lower divisions Superleague fiasco.
 
Out of interest why couldn't there have been relegation from the national league this season? Surely the regional leagues have the capacity to take a couple of extra teams for a season with additional promotion next season.

The problem here seems to be no relegation from the NL making that league finish under different rules from which it started and making the integrity of it suspect. If they re-instated relegation everything goes back to normal right?
 

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