Post-Match Thread and Ratings Dorking Wanderers 1-0 Southend United

[Piledriver]

That always happens though doesn't it. For lots of reasons players perform better at some clubs, and for some managers, than others.

Okay unpick what you're saying then, lots of reasons yes it means some coaches fail to provide the ball into areas their strikers thrive on ! And goals are really important! Lol
I'd have to check but our goals scored is probably among the lowest in the division this season and last season too.

 

[Piledriver]

Take your point on board and we have reduced the need for loan players, for sure and just as well really!

But where we started this season and with the squad we have and this is the crux of the point I was making, is we are not really better than we were at the end of last season.

Up front we all agree that we don't score enough goals, there are not enough goals coming from midfield as a unit. Even when we signed Taylor and Fonguck from Barnet, their fans said on a couple of forums, good steady and average midfielders, but an integral part of a promotion winning midfield....no. And they have been proved right. Our defence has been solid enough, but still makes the odd mistake and when we are not scoring goals it's costing us, as we it did again last night.

Put the squad we started with this season, in any normal financial position, for this season and be able to push on and build on that squad adding the creative midfielder and more penetrative striker at least, let alone be able to bring in other talent we may have been able to unearth and bring in and I think we would be having a different conversation.

Yes a very good summary of our clubs situation the only thing I would say is when Brunt was with us I assume the creative type of player who can unlock defences with his passing , he wasn't always fully utilised played out wide etc, so perhaps just perhaps kev has a tendency to go with players in his own image, hence why he didn't start Benton

 

[kentblues]

Acquah we thrust in too early at a level that was to high for him (still did some reasonable stuff and showed some promise). By the time our level and his were perfectly matched we let him go. He would probably of done just as well for us in this league as he had for Maidenhead.

 

[Piledriver]

Acquah we thrust in too early at a level that was to high for him (still did some reasonable stuff and showed some promise). By the time our level and his were perfectly matched we let him go. He would probably of done just as well for us in this league as he had for Maidenhead.

So I think what you're saying is kev and Co would have got the best out of Acquah and to me that seems to be at odds with getting the best out of Mooney , Powell , Cardwell etc all I'm saying is our attacking play is just give the ball to Bridge and hope something happens, the lack of goals is proof isn't it..

 

[kentblues]

So I think what you're saying is kev and Co would have got the best out of Acquah and to me that seems to be at odds with getting the best out of Mooney , Powell , Cardwell etc all I'm saying is our attacking play is just give the ball to Bridge and hope something happens, the lack of goals is proof isn't it..

I think Kev would of got at least as much out of Acquah as Devonshire has at this level yes.

Getting the best out of a midfield that has never scored for anyone does not necessarily mean they will suddenly start scoring goals for us. Cardwell has scored regularly but has been impacted by no pre-season and injuries. Ditto Murphy and Hyde. Mooney has also suffered injury issues. Also our formation does really allow Mooney in his preferred right wing position as we play wing backs. Powell has never scored very regularly at this level or others except for a short time when played down the middle a league lower. And again we don't play wingers so can't revert back to previously preferred position either.

The lack of goals isn't proof of something wrong with Kev's tactics regarding Bridge when the entire midfield has never scored anywhere (Bridge or not) and the forwards have been largely injured and not match fit. Its a recruitment challenge around signing proven goalscorers in the MF and forward positions. And signing players that fit the style of play. I'm not sure how valuable wingers are when you play 532 every game.

Given the above not sure giving the ball to Jack less would have resulted in a much different outcome. especially as he is arguably are only creative outlet in MF.

 

[ColinMorrisWalksOnWater]

Yes a very good summary of our clubs situation the only thing I would say is when Brunt was with us I assume the creative type of player who can unlock defences with his passing , he wasn't always fully utilised played out wide etc, so perhaps just perhaps kev has a tendency to go with players in his own image, hence why he didn't start Benton

can't disagree with that at all. Although I think the penny finally dropped for Kev last night, we are too slow and too sideways when we attack, therefore lots of times we are having to break a whole midfield unit and a whole defensive unit down, whereas faster attacking moves split those units apart, or can do if the passing is accurate enough.....and quick.

he also used Benton as an example in saying he had 3-4 shots within minutes of coming on.

My wish for Kev and the team is for a season embargo free and I think we will see a vast improvement and if were drinkers and in a pub, we'd raise a glass to that.
Been a good discussion, look forward to our next one.

 

[Born In A Blue Shirt]

Glad you are not the manager
Demitriou, Murphy, retain….what use are they, great servant but too old and an old bloke made of glass!

Hobson , Wreh, Ralph, release!
Three of the better ones surely?

I'm also glad I'm not the manager, Kev is doing a fantastic job. To be fair I think we invite Murphy back to training to see if he can get a full pre-season without getting himself injured, as a fit Murphy is a proven goalscorer at this level. I'd suspect he probably wouldn't take that offer though, and in which case we could quite easily release him. I don't see any harm in giving him a full pre-season to see if he can get fit.

I think Hobson gets a lot of rave reviews, I think he quite rightly deserves them defensively. However, we like to play out of the back and invariably his first touch isn't great and his distribution is generally poor. It usually consists of a long ball forwards that drifts out of play. It comes back to my original point - Hobson has been good for us, but the last few years must have been hard for him and sometimes the player and the club just need a freshen up. I don't think he is so good that he is irreplaceable, so let him go back up north and play for Morecambe/Salford.

The same for Ralph. Technically I think he's an excellent footballer, but actually Bridge is our best LWB so all efforts should be made to keep him. I think as a local lad there may be a chance of that happening, particularly if we can get some positive cashflows from the stadium/new ownership.

Demetriou has been/is a model pro and available for most fixtures this season. Scott-Morriss is much the better player now, but Demetriou is still capable at this level and get experience in the dressing room. I think he plays a bigger part behind the scenes than you realise if you think he should be let go.

Wreh has scored 4 goals in 19 games (12 starts). Not a bad return, not a great one either. I like his physicality and he has good feet too. I just wonder if there are better and younger options out there, but wouldn't be disappointed if he got offered another deal.

To discuss your comments 'three of the better ones'. We should be looking to improve the squad, not maintain a mid-table VNL side. Sometimes that requires tough decisions and trust in the football department to find better replacements.

 

[B.B.The Legend Lives On.]

Thought I would add this little story from last night's 1-0 defeat against Dorking Wanderers and hopefully it will bring a smile to your face. I was lucky enough to grab one of the 80+ seats allocated to Southend supporters which included all staff members, Essex Radio & the Press. Sitting directly behind me was a scout from Q.P.R who was also an Oxford United fan and like me had supported his club for well over 60 years. It was like me also a new ground for him and we started to talk about our former players from back in the day and as you know talking is a full time job for me these days. He then mentioned that a few years ago he was doing some scouting work for Spurs watching some second division matches in Germany and he had bumped into a Southend fan who he spent some quality time with at the match. The scout who's name I didn't asked then said to me completely out of the blue "How good was Billy Best" well as you can imagine I was absolutely stunned but I then spent the rest of the second-half telling him my own personal encyclopedic knowledge about a person that really does mean so much to not only me but to many other misty eyed fans of a certain age who had the privilege and pleasure to witness the great man play in our beautiful blue shirt. The match itself had passed me by as the referee blew the final whistle. I was still in a bit of a daze as we said our goodbye's and as I shook his hand he thanked me for my time but admitted listing to me was a whole lot better than the match we had both been watching. As we often say to brighten up your day "You just can't beat a bit of Billy"

 

[Strykr]

That's the way KM played and it shows that he has brought it to is team's tactics.

Yeah he totally played like that in the double promotion and championship seasons

 

[Tommy2holes]

Yeah he totally played like that in the double promotion and championship seasons

Tbf to KM he was a very defensive midfielder. The difference being, we had wingers who wanted the ball and could deliver and strikers who could score goals.

Our front line are static and none of midfield can really travel with the ball and score with any regularity.

 

[Strykr]

Tbf to KM he was a very defensive midfielder. The difference being, we had wingers who wanted the ball and could deliver and strikers who could score goals.

Our front line are static and none of midfield can really travel with the ball and score with any regularity.

Thats precisely my point tommy. When surrounded with positive attacking quality players he went from a defensive midfielder to a playmaker.

When he was surrounded by dross he passed sideways and backwards in an attempt to retain possesion.

Our players were forward thinking and fast pressing. Now the confidence has gone nowone is making moves and everyone is hesitant, and perhaps they are a bit dross in reality


Anyway, i dont buy the kevs a crab manager rhetoric, and i didnt hear it from anyone when we were winning.

He (and benno and currie) need to work out a few different ways to utilise the players we have in a different way and adapt to teams that know how to snuff us out.

But on the whole, the ron and lopata bollocks has crushed everyone beyond repair this sesason

 

[Billy Bests boot laces]

He then mentioned that a few years ago he was doing some scouting work for Spurs watching some second division matches in Germany and he had bumped into a Southend fan who he spent some quality time with at the match. The scout who's name I didn't asked then said to me completely out of the blue "How good was Billy Best" well as you can imagine I was absolutely stunned As we often say to brighten up your day "You just can't beat a bit of Billy"

Odds on that was Ozzie. Great story Dave. X

 

[Holy Joe]

Okay unpick what you're saying then, lots of reasons yes it means some coaches fail to provide the ball into areas their strikers thrive on ! And goals are really important! Lol
I'd have to check but our goals scored is probably among the lowest in the division this season and last season too.

Will have been amongst the lowest for probably 4 or more seasons! It's been a problem well before Maher & Co arrived, and not a problem that multiple managers have solved.

I don't think one manager will not be able to get the best out of all strikers. My point is the success or otherwise of a particular player is down to more than just the manager, your point was that Acquah and Barrett(?) were rejected by us and have gone to Maidenhead and are playing regular football - I personally wouldn't say that means Devonshire is a better manager than Maher, he may or may not be, but that evidence is not conclusive.

 

[Evening Echo]

DORKING Wanderers boss Marc White felt his side were defensively brilliant in their 1-0 win against Southend United.

Read more on this story


Help with Echo links

 

[Kat_r]

Let's face it when Kev came into the club we were all but doomed to playing National League South this season. We managed to go on a run and stay up and then started this season well.

Maybe this squad was overachieving up until 7 games ago and this squad is only worthy of a mid table finish. Kev noted a three year process to get out of this division and even that has been hindered with 6 months of not being able to strengthen.

Do people really think the squad we have is good enough to get into the playoffs? Injury prone forwards, weak in the midfield and no creativity. However, if we can add to the core of this squad I do think we can go again next season... until Ron inevitably gets us embargo'd again.

Agreed

But there’s no point fans shouting abuse at players or management. They are trying their best. Just got to encourage them really
But it’s not pretty viewing atm

 

[nick12]

I see what you're saying but I don't think that's a good analogy. A bit too simplistic, unless you have someone tasked with stopping you from making the bacon and eggs and it's done in front of thousands of paying spectators!

I don't think the players are actively going out of their way to disobey instructions (they're not the types and have respect for the coaching staff), and I also don't think they're incapable of carrying out the instructions (see the unbeaten run earlier in the season with some of the most complete performances seen from a Southend team in years).

So that leaves confidence and morale, for me.

Ok then make it complicated I responded to the comment "the players are not trained or told to play that way" so you can put that in 3,000 words or use my simple eggs & bacon analogy, either way they are not doing what they are told according to the post I read why not?

No point in having a management team if the players do what the hell they like once they go out on the pitch. Hold on I think we have found a way to save us loads of money and line RM's pockets do away with managers as they are ignored be the players anyway. Embargo over

 

[Thundersley Blue]

I think Kev would of got at least as much out of Acquah as Devonshire has at this level yes.

Getting the best out of a midfield that has never scored for anyone does not necessarily mean they will suddenly start scoring goals for us. Cardwell has scored regularly but has been impacted by no pre-season and injuries. Ditto Murphy and Hyde. Mooney has also suffered injury issues. Also our formation does really allow Mooney in his preferred right wing position as we play wing backs. Powell has never scored very regularly at this level or others except for a short time when played down the middle a league lower. And again we don't play wingers so can't revert back to previously preferred position either.

The lack of goals isn't proof of something wrong with Kev's tactics regarding Bridge when the entire midfield has never scored anywhere (Bridge or not) and the forwards have been largely injured and not match fit. Its a recruitment challenge around signing proven goalscorers in the MF and forward positions. And signing players that fit the style of play. I'm not sure how valuable wingers are when you play 532 every game.

Given the above not sure giving the ball to Jack less would have resulted in a much different outcome. especially as he is arguably are only creative outlet in MF.

I am sorry I can't agree that we play 5-3-2 every game. We play with 3 at the back , with 2 wing backs. One of those Bridge, is seldom seen in a defensive position and Gus spends a lot of time forward. Both of these also provide the width. Unfortunately, Bridge is good on the ball, but no real end product. The system has been couched from the way Sheffield United played at one time, hence the centre backs being encouraged to bring the ball forward rather than a big hoof.

Even Clubs with unlimited cash can't get it right first time. The squad has a lot of promise, but Kevin has been locked out of the transfer market,which including last season is around 9 months. Thus making it impossible to evolve the squad. However, it is encouraging that Wood , Coker and Davis are performing well at a lower level. Wood especially is getting rave reviews at the moment. Hopefully, we will see the benefits next season.

 

[kentblues]

I am sorry I can't agree that we play 5-3-2 every game. We play with 3 at the back , with 2 wing backs. One of those Bridge, is seldom seen in a defensive position and Gus spends a lot of time forward. Both of these also provide the width. Unfortunately, Bridge is good on the ball, but no real end product. The system has been couched from the way Sheffield United played at one time, hence the centre backs being encouraged to bring the ball forward rather than a big hoof.

Even Clubs with unlimited cash can't get it right first time. The squad has a lot of promise, but Kevin has been locked out of the transfer market,which including last season is around 9 months. Thus making it impossible to evolve the squad. However, it is encouraging that Wood , Coker and Davis are performing well at a lower level. Wood especially is getting rave reviews at the moment. Hopefully, we will see the benefits next season.

Sorry I meant 352 not 532

 

[B.B.The Legend Lives On.]

Odds on that was Ozzie. Great story Dave. X

Exactly what I was thinking, especially when he mentioned the match was being played close to Nuremberg. Small world that's for sure.

 

[IloveShrimp]

Yeah he totally played like that in the double promotion and championship seasons

Glad you agree with me!