Post-Match Thread and Ratings Dorking Wanderers 1-0 Southend United

[LeedsSUFC]

Retain:
Steve Arnold - 1 year deal (with club option)
Jason Demetriou - 1 year deal (Youth Coaching Included)
Jack Bridge - 2 year deal (with club option)
Jon Benton - Activate Club Option
Tommy Davis - 1 year deal (with club option)
Rhys Murphy - Invite for trial to prove fitness

Under Contract for 2023/24 Season:
Colin Adeng-Ndi
Gus Scott-Morriss
Louis Lomas
Ollie Kensdale
Cav Miley
Noor Husin
Wes Fonguck
Jack Wood
Oli Coker
Harry Cardwell
Callum Powell

Offer Pro Deals:
Jaden Crowhurst
Louie Arrowsmith

Release:
Shaun Hobson
Nathan Ralph
Chris Wreh

Transfer List/Free To Leave:
Tom Clifford
Harry Taylor
Dan Mooney

Return To Parent Club:
Jake Hyde

Releasing Hobson is madness, although I think he has already got a move elsewhere. (6 months left etc)

I think Mooney will be given another season, with a full pre-season to gain fitness and form.

Add Murphy to the release list.

Whilst on contract, let’s try and offload Fonguck & Powell.

 

[kentblues]

Forget Lopata going and for one moment put aside the fact that everything is Ron's fault (largely true but a distraction on occasion).

In the last 7 games we have conceded 9 goals including games against clubs in the top 7/8. The reason this hasn't delivered significantly more points is we have scored 2 goals- the problem has a huge red flashing light with a siren attached. And its not new.

The Southend Nil problem has been obvious for a few seasons now. Is it all bad luck? No I would argue utterly predictable.

Take our current CM (where we play 3 so you would expect at least a couple to know where the back of the net is).

Here are their career stats

Wes 151 games 12 goals
Noor 116 games 8 goals
Miley 206 games 2 goals
Harry T 223 games 7 goals

Is it really, can it be really, any surprise that our CM is not delivering goals?

Then if you look at WB Jack is 176 games 19 goals and Gus (the most profilic of them all) 68 games 9 goals

And our CBs don't score either

So where do we expect goals to come from? We are totally over reliant on 2 probably 3 strikers coming off big time (20+ a season) to trouble the automatics.

I would hope the management team would be laser focussed on this for next season.

 

[Chris Powell's mate]

Forget Lopata going and for one moment out aside the fact that everything is Ron's fault (largely true but a distraction on occasion).

In the last 7 games we have conceded 9 goals including games against clubs in the top 7/8. The reason this hasn't delivered significantly more points is we have score 2 goals- the problem has a huge red flashing light with a siren attached. And its not new.

The Southend Nil problem has been obvious for a few seasons now. Is it all bad luck? No I would argue utterly predictable.

Take our current CM (where we play 3 so you would expect at least a couple to know where the back of the net is).

Here are there career stats

Wes 151 games 12 goals
Noor 116 games 8 goals
Miley 206 games 2 goals
Harry T 223 games 7 goals

Is it really, can it be really, any surprise that our CM is not delivering goals?

Then if you look at WB Jack is 176 games 19 goals and Gus (the most profilic of them all) 68 games 9 goals

And our CBs don't score either

So where do we expect goals to come from? We are totally over reliant on 2 probably 3 strikers coming off big time (20+ a season) to trouble the automatics.

I would hope the management team would be laser focussed on this for next season.

Well made points.
And if you rely on five strikers including Powell, that suffered injury, loss of form, and in Murphy's and Hyde's case - choosing which surfaces to play on - you won't be scoring many.
Still feel Hyde was thrust on the management; Murphy was inherited; and Powell hasn't worked out.
That leaves in-and-out Wreh and Cardwell, who has also had his fair share of knocks.
Clear all except the last.

 

[Chris Powell's mate]

Releasing Hobson is madness, although I think he has already got a move elsewhere. (6 months left etc)

I think Mooney will be given another season, with a full pre-season to gain fitness and form.

Add Murphy to the release list.

Whilst on contract, let’s try and offload Fonguck & Powell.

Am still not sure whether Hobson's acute upturn in form a while back was down to playing alongside Lopata, or just circumstance?
He's not the worst NL defender, but by now was hoping his passing had improved to go with a couple of more goals from set pieces.
Agree with the rest, both here and in @Born In A Blue Shirt's original post.

 

[LeedsSUFC]

Am still not sure whether Hobson's acute upturn in form a while back was down to playing alongside Lopata, or just circumstance?
He's not the worst NL defender, but by now was hoping his passing had improved to go with a couple of more goals from set pieces.
Agree with the rest, both here and in @Born In A Blue Shirt's original post.

He has been outstanding for the past 2 seasons, rarely making a mistake that is fully his fault..?

His distribution has been great (Bridge’s goal vs Notts for example), his foot work dribbling has improved massively (Alty at the weekend).

He is one of our best players and could easily play EFL standard. Yes Lopata helped him, but since Lopata left, he has continued his form. The leaks in the back line come from Kensdale lacking confidence, Bridge being incapable of defending, as well as whole team efforts.

 

[40yearsafan]

Is there something wrong behind the scenes ? Be nice to hear an honest explanation but I don’t think we will get one.

I would guess the squad don't feel any different from the rest of us. On top of that, they have the worry of providing for their families and worrying if their next pay packet is going to arrive.
Seven games back they had the incentive of a possible promotion for their CVs, now even that has gone.
I'm sure many will be thinking about their next move and finding an employer who actually pays them. I don't blame them.

 

[Maroon Blue]

Came on to write my match report and ratings. The thread now turned into who we should keep or release in the summer! Think it has all been said really, second best in the first half in all aspects of trying to win a football match (against part timers) inexcusable. Second half better with change of formation, Benton looked up for it. But as we all know we create very little now with Bridge off form and cannot score. Play, lose 1-0 and repeat.

Andeng-Ndi 7 MOTM
Hobson 6.5
Kensdale 5
Lomas 6.5
Demetriou 5.5
Miley 6
Taylor 5
Ralph 6
Mooney 5
Cardwell 5.5
Bridge 5.5

Benton 6.5
Powell 5
Sandat 5

MOTM to Collin the keeper, good return to the side, very mobile, although positioning still worries me. He was too far off his line for that great save from the header for which he somehow managed to still get over the bar in the first half. Could have made it easier for himself. Lomas & Benton also did themselves no harm and should be retained in the 11 for Saturday for the trip to Yeovil and probable 1-0 defeat. Yeovil now in bottom 4 and will think could not have a more winnable game other than Maidstone. Co-incidentally our next opponents after Yeovil and hopefully they will have been relegated by then and we can pick up a badly needed win. UTB

 

[Shrimper]

To be honest, I thought earlier in the season this group were more than capable of the play-offs. However, in more recent times, I think it's more of a case that there are players here capable of excellent moments at this level, but just aren't capable of delivering it on a consistent basis.

There was a thread doing the rounds about who we should retain and who we should release. Up until about maybe a month ago, I was actually in favour of retaining a good deal of the squad, not only due to the affinity they've built with us as fans due to their loyalty, but also due to their desire to work hard for the shirt, ability to perform at the level as individuals but also, and perhaps more importantly, for the first time in a long time to function well as a team. My thought was that 4 or 5 really good additions would have us challenging at the pinnacle of the division.

However, sadly I think I may have been wrong. I don't think it's for the want of trying, I don't think it's the formation, and I definitely don't think it's the management. This is an issue of personnel who were probably playing at their peak performance, as opposed to a team who were playing in maybe 3rd or 4th gear, with the ability to kick on and find another level later into the season/into next season. So for me, it's all about perception and I think a lot of us probably felt this team were showing signs of massive promise, when in actual fact I think we might have seen the pinnacle of what they are capable of.

For that reason I've had a little think about what I would do if I were Kev and Co and part of the footballing department as a whole with regards to personnel. There are some controversial choices in here, but also some glaringly obvious ones. I understand the majority of players are under contract until 2024, but irrespective of that, here is who I would attempt to retain and here is who I would release:

Retain:
Steve Arnold - 1 year deal (with club option)
Jason Demetriou - 1 year deal (Youth Coaching Included)
Jack Bridge - 2 year deal (with club option)
Jon Benton - Activate Club Option
Tommy Davis - 1 year deal (with club option)
Rhys Murphy - Invite for trial to prove fitness

Under Contract for 2023/24 Season:
Colin Adeng-Ndi
Gus Scott-Morriss
Louis Lomas
Ollie Kensdale
Cav Miley
Noor Husin
Wes Fonguck
Jack Wood
Oli Coker
Harry Cardwell
Callum Powell

Offer Pro Deals:
Jaden Crowhurst
Louie Arrowsmith

Release:
Shaun Hobson
Nathan Ralph
Chris Wreh

Transfer List/Free To Leave:
Tom Clifford
Harry Taylor
Dan Mooney

Return To Parent Club:
Jake Hyde


Hobson and Ralph could count themselves very unlucky, but to be honest, both have played large parts of the season in multiple teams that haven't fulfilled their objectives, and whilst that obviously doesn't mean that it's all their responsibility, I just think players and clubs come to a point where they need to freshen things up.

Taylor and Mooney have both been massively underwhelming for me, the latter gives the ball away far too much and hasn't delivered anywhere near his expectations. Clifford needs games and I just don't think fits our style of play, he also doesn't look physical enough for the NL. Wreh looks imposing but simply hasn't scored enough goals, and Hyde just hasn't been available enough throughout the season to warrant us pursuing him further.

Would be very interested to hear everyone else's thoughts!

At the moment due to the embargo we can't offer anyone a new contract. Given in the meeting with the Trust they said it would be 4 weeks at least before it's cleared, those players could be gone already.

 

[ColinMorrisWalksOnWater]

Forget Lopata going and for one moment out aside the fact that everything is Ron's fault (largely true but a distraction on occasion).

In the last 7 games we have conceded 9 goals including games against clubs in the top 7/8. The reason this hasn't delivered significantly more points is we have scored 2 goals- the problem has a huge red flashing light with a siren attached. And its not new.

The Southend Nil problem has been obvious for a few seasons now. Is it all bad luck? No I would argue utterly predictable.

Take our current CM (where we play 3 so you would expect at least a couple to know where the back of the net is).

Here are their career stats

Wes 151 games 12 goals
Noor 116 games 8 goals
Miley 206 games 2 goals
Harry T 223 games 7 goals

Is it really, can it be really, be any surprise that our CM is not delivering goals?

Then if you look at WB Jack is 176 games 19 goals and Gus (the most profilic of them all) 68 games 9 goals

And our CBs don't score either

So where do we expect goals to come from? We are totally over reliant on 2 probably 3 strikers coming off big time (20+ a season) to trouble the automatics.

I would hope the management team would be laser focussed on this for next season.

Brilliant post and points well made KB. I would also add that it also amplifies and highlights why the embargo has hurt us so much.


The players we have now, were mostly, not all for sure, but mostly bought in to steady the ship last season and took us from the lower reaches of the NL to safe mid table.

In the summer we added the likes of Gus, Miley, Fonguck, Hyde and Taylor to name a few to stabilise the first part of the season and that's where the recruitment stopped.

The early part of the season as we know went well and play offs were well and truly on after the first 15 games or so.


Then the points KB made so well, the statistics of the squad then come into play. We needed to kick on and improve, as we were then in a position where stability was not what we needed, but creativity and penetration were then the elements we would have been looking to build on and we simply couldn't get it. 5 games ago or so is why l called a poster on here deluded if he thought this squad of players could make the play offs. l think l am justified in that point now, if made a little harshly and I apologise to you Andy as l know it was harsh.

However, we are now almost exactly where we ended last season in mid table, although it feels more demoralising being here dropping out of the play offs, than last season from a relegation position. That is the strength of the squad we have though and it should be of no surprise to us as a fanbase......if we take a step back and look at where we are. Forget the why for this post ATM.


That is the reason l am not one for digging Maher and the team out, because whatever he does tactic wise of team pick wise , he has a mid table squad, nothing more nothing less. It is also why if all Ron can does is stop us from dying as a club, until he has gone, we should expect nothing more. It is also crucial that Tom gets an agreement with HMRC to get us out of an embargo situation on an ongoing basis.


Painful for sure, but l feel that is realistic. Don't forget the old football adage.....When you stand still you go backwards. It also makes typing an overview like this in the division we are in very painful too!

 

[wiggy]

To be honest, I thought earlier in the season this group were more than capable of the play-offs. However, in more recent times, I think it's more of a case that there are players here capable of excellent moments at this level, but just aren't capable of delivering it on a consistent basis.

There was a thread doing the rounds about who we should retain and who we should release. Up until about maybe a month ago, I was actually in favour of retaining a good deal of the squad, not only due to the affinity they've built with us as fans due to their loyalty, but also due to their desire to work hard for the shirt, ability to perform at the level as individuals but also, and perhaps more importantly, for the first time in a long time to function well as a team. My thought was that 4 or 5 really good additions would have us challenging at the pinnacle of the division.

However, sadly I think I may have been wrong. I don't think it's for the want of trying, I don't think it's the formation, and I definitely don't think it's the management. This is an issue of personnel who were probably playing at their peak performance, as opposed to a team who were playing in maybe 3rd or 4th gear, with the ability to kick on and find another level later into the season/into next season. So for me, it's all about perception and I think a lot of us probably felt this team were showing signs of massive promise, when in actual fact I think we might have seen the pinnacle of what they are capable of.

For that reason I've had a little think about what I would do if I were Kev and Co and part of the footballing department as a whole with regards to personnel. There are some controversial choices in here, but also some glaringly obvious ones. I understand the majority of players are under contract until 2024, but irrespective of that, here is who I would attempt to retain and here is who I would release:

Retain:
Steve Arnold - 1 year deal (with club option)
Jason Demetriou - 1 year deal (Youth Coaching Included)
Jack Bridge - 2 year deal (with club option)
Jon Benton - Activate Club Option
Tommy Davis - 1 year deal (with club option)
Rhys Murphy - Invite for trial to prove fitness

Under Contract for 2023/24 Season:
Colin Adeng-Ndi
Gus Scott-Morriss
Louis Lomas
Ollie Kensdale
Cav Miley
Noor Husin
Wes Fonguck
Jack Wood
Oli Coker
Harry Cardwell
Callum Powell

Offer Pro Deals:
Jaden Crowhurst
Louie Arrowsmith

Release:
Shaun Hobson
Nathan Ralph
Chris Wreh

Transfer List/Free To Leave:
Tom Clifford
Harry Taylor
Dan Mooney

Return To Parent Club:
Jake Hyde


Hobson and Ralph could count themselves very unlucky, but to be honest, both have played large parts of the season in multiple teams that haven't fulfilled their objectives, and whilst that obviously doesn't mean that it's all their responsibility, I just think players and clubs come to a point where they need to freshen things up.

Taylor and Mooney have both been massively underwhelming for me, the latter gives the ball away far too much and hasn't delivered anywhere near his expectations. Clifford needs games and I just don't think fits our style of play, he also doesn't look physical enough for the NL. Wreh looks imposing but simply hasn't scored enough goals, and Hyde just hasn't been available enough throughout the season to warrant us pursuing him further.

Would be very interested to hear everyone else's thoughts!

Glad you are not the manager
Demitriou, Murphy, retain….what use are they, great servant but too old and an old bloke made of glass!

Hobson , Wreh, Ralph, release!
Three of the better ones surely?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Cool. Makes your quip a bit redundant then.

Sense of humour by-pass? (perhaps not so suprising given our on /off the pitch problems this season).

 

[Piledriver]

Brilliant post and points well made KB. I would also add that it also amplifies and highlights why the embargo has hurt us so much.


The players we have now, were mostly, not all for sure, but mostly bought in to steady the ship last season and took us from the lower reaches of the NL to safe mid table.

In the summer we added the likes of Gus, Miley, Fonguck, Hyde and Taylor to name a few to stabilise the first part of the season and that's where the recruitment stopped.

The early part of the season as we know went well and play offs were well and truly on after the first 15 games or so.


Then the points KB made so well, the statistics of the squad then come into play. We needed to kick on and improve, as we were then in a position where stability was not what we needed, but creativity and penetration were then the elements we would have been looking to build on and we simply couldn't get it. 5 games ago or so is why l called a poster on here deluded if he thought this squad of players could make the play offs. l think l am justified in that point now, if made a little harshly and I apologise to you Andy as l know it was harsh.

However, we are now almost exactly where we ended last season in mid table, although it feels more demoralising being here dropping out of the play offs, than last season from a relegation position. That is the strength of the squad we have though and it should be of no surprise to us as a fanbase......if we take a step back and look at where we are. Forget the why for this post ATM.


That is the reason l am not one for digging Maher and the team out, because whatever he does tactic wise of team pick wise , he has a mid table squad, nothing more nothing less. It is also why if all Ron can does is stop us from dying as a club, until he has gone, we should expect nothing more. It is also crucial that Tom gets an agreement with HMRC to get us out of an embargo situation on an ongoing basis.


Painful for sure, but l feel that is realistic. Don't forget the old football adage.....When you stand still you go backwards. It also makes typing an overview like this in the division we are in very painful too!

Surely the stability you mention was achieved last season with the loan players! Neal with short term signing Atkinson did a decent job, as good as Miley and a.n.other imo
The players brought in were the rebuild with the intention of not having to rely on loan players as much this season. They assembled this squad! other managers on tight budgets face similar challenges don't they ? for example maidenhead took 2 of our rejects and have got something out of them! Maybe that's because Devonshire was a forward who knows about creating goal scoring opportunities, and kev doesn't imo

 

[Napster]

Maybe that's because Devonshire was a forward who knows about creating goal scoring opportunities, and kev doesn't imo

Sturrock was an attacker, yet his football was turgid. Webb was a no-nonsense centre-back, yet his teams were scintillating. The positions managers played has no bearing at all on the sides they manage.

 

[Target man]

Sturrock was an attacker, yet his football was turgid. Webb was a no-nonsense centre-back, yet his teams were scintillating. The positions managers played has no bearing at all on the sides they manage.

Gareth Southgate??

 

[Piledriver]

You've failed to address the point though so I'll repeat it for you , 2 players who kev rejected! another manager has got a tune out of! Just to avoid confusion here's the point , no matter who is in Kevs Squad it's his job to set up the team to get the best out of the players available! Under his leadership they've struggled to score goals even on unbeaten runs , and I can't see that changing tbh, but I'm all for stability though just not crab football...

 

[Medway Blue]

Surely the stability you mention was achieved last season with the loan players! Neal with short term signing Atkinson did a decent job, as good as Miley and a.n.other imo
The players brought in were the rebuild with the intention of not having to rely on loan players as much this season. They assembled this squad! other managers on tight budgets face similar challenges don't they ? for example maidenhead took 2 of our rejects and have got something out of them! Maybe that's because Devonshire was a forward who knows about creating goal scoring opportunities, and kev doesn't imo

Yes, but the club is still lumbered with the same poor reputation and budget that it has had under RM recently so I don't think the rebuild in the summer was expected to do much more than make us play-off challengers. Which we were until the morale and motivation of the players was gradually chipped away at by stuff going on behind the scenes. Some might stay we still are until it's mathematically impossible, not that I think it will happen.

Don't agree with your Maidenhead point. Acquah is doing well there. Good for him. But he wasn't ready to deliver the goods that we needed him to deliver almost 2-3 years ago, and at a step higher.

 

[Holy Joe]

You've failed to address the point though so I'll repeat it for you , 2 players who kev rejected! another manager has got a tune out of! Just to avoid confusion here's the point , no matter who is in Kevs Squad it's his job to set up the team to get the best out of the players available! Under his leadership they've struggled to score goals even on unbeaten runs , and I can't see that changing tbh, but I'm all for stability though just not crab football...

That always happens though doesn't it. For lots of reasons players perform better at some clubs, and for some managers, than others.

 

[Piledriver]

Yes, but the club is still lumbered with the same poor reputation and budget that it has had under RM recently so I don't think the rebuild in the summer was expected to do much more than make us play-off challengers. Which we were until the morale and motivation of the players was gradually chipped away at by stuff going on behind the scenes. Some might stay we still are until it's mathematically impossible, not that I think it will happen.

Don't agree with your Maidenhead point. Acquah is doing well there. Good for him. But he wasn't ready to deliver the goods that we needed him to deliver almost 2-3 years ago, and at a step higher.

So which goal machine has kev and Co improved, they got lucky last season with Matt Dennis and that's great, I'd just add they are consistent in failing to play to a strikers strengths.

 

[Medway Blue]

So which goal machine has kev and Co improved, they got lucky last season with Matt Dennis and that's great, I'd just add they are consistent in failing to play to a strikers strengths.

We don't have a goal machine. They're hard to come by at this level without decent money and a bit of luck.

 

[ColinMorrisWalksOnWater]

Surely the stability you mention was achieved last season with the loan players! Neal with short term signing Atkinson did a decent job, as good as Miley and a.n.other imo
The players brought in were the rebuild with the intention of not having to rely on loan players as much this season. They assembled this squad! other managers on tight budgets face similar challenges don't they ? for example maidenhead took 2 of our rejects and have got something out of them! Maybe that's because Devonshire was a forward who knows about creating goal scoring opportunities, and kev doesn't imo

Take your point on board and we have reduced the need for loan players, for sure and just as well really!

But where we started this season and with the squad we have and this is the crux of the point I was making, is we are not really better than we were at the end of last season.

Up front we all agree that we don't score enough goals, there are not enough goals coming from midfield as a unit. Even when we signed Taylor and Fonguck from Barnet, their fans said on a couple of forums, good steady and average midfielders, but an integral part of a promotion winning midfield....no. And they have been proved right. Our defence has been solid enough, but still makes the odd mistake and when we are not scoring goals it's costing us, as it did again last night.

Put the squad we started with this season, in any normal financial position, for this season and be able to push on and build on that squad adding the creative midfielder and more penetrative striker at least, let alone be able to bring in other talent we may have been able to unearth and bring in and I think we would be having a different conversation.