3rd winding up order due

[Thorpe Groyney]

Bow.
Locks.

 

[fbm]

There was a club chairman called Ron,
Who would never admit he was wrong,
Roots Hall was the ground
Only 4 million pound
Was the cost, and that seems like a song

But no-one would have minded, you see
If we'd survived in the CCC,
But instead we went down
And now our new ground
Instead of 4 sides will have three

We couldn't even manage in stages,
To pay off the tax and the wages,
And with Sainsburys our saviour
The club feels a failure
And we haven't been this skint in ages

But is that the fault of Ron Martin,
For our clubs the one with his heart in,
He is racked with despair,
So much so that his hair
Will now be cut short with a parting

And surely the time is now right,
To agree that our future looks bright,
As the team have stopped losing
With the youth system blooming
Lets cheer on the lads and unite!

 

[PrawNZ]

some people have far too much time on their hands!

 

[Col.U. Mad]

Where are the "boys from the city" willing to invest that TB alluded to on the recent BBC Essex phone-in?:unsure:

 

[Cricko]

Where are the "boys from the city" willing to invest that TB alluded to on the recent BBC Essex phone-in?:unsure:

They probably met RM and thought Gadaffi and the Middle East was a safer environment to take a risk.

 

[Norfolkshrimp]

Serious question

So the latest debt is rumoured to be around £30k

What is the cost of having to deal with this now ie. legal fees, penalties etc. ? Is a £30k bill going to end up costing £40k or more ?

I don't see how TB can justify prioritising current debts in the order he has. Just seems like a another one with the RM mindset to me.

 

[Beefy]

What order would you have placed the bills in this month? It looks like the Club chose to pay the first team this month with the few pennies that we could rub together and banked on paying HMRC a couple of weeks late once the cash that Sainsburys was sitting on was released.

Had he paid the tax bill and not paid the players he'd have been criticised for that as well.

 

[Norfolkshrimp]

What order would you have placed the bills in this month? It looks like the Club chose to pay the first team this month with the few pennies that we could rub together and banked on paying HMRC a couple of weeks late once the cash that Sainsburys was sitting on was released.

Had he paid the tax bill and not paid the players he'd have been criticised for that as well.

Of course and neither is acceptable but maybe you could try and answer my question, how much extra do you think this has cost us and furthermore how much extra have we paid out in legal fees etc. over the last 2 years ?

It's never acceptable to pay your employees late but I think
this situation is becoming untenable. Surely it's not beyond someone whether that be TB, RM or an accountant within the club (do we have one ?) to have foreseen the current cashflow situation and made provision before wasting more money we don't have on fighting HMRC.

Just WTF is going on as it appears nobody has a clue what they are doing.

 

[WESTY_SUFC]

What order would you have placed the bills in this month? It looks like the Club chose to pay the first team this month with the few pennies that we could rub together and banked on paying HMRC a couple of weeks late once the cash that Sainsburys was sitting on was released.

Had he paid the tax bill and not paid the players he'd have been criticised for that as well.

Being such a 'nominal fee' i would pay £30K out of my own money and reclaim later.

 

[Beefy]

We're not fighting HMRC. Unless I've missed something we aren't contesting the Winding Up order we're looking to get it paid and therefore withdrawn.

I don't know how much this will cost in legal fees. I'm not a lawyer. HMRC issues dozens of winding up petitions every day. I don't think they each cost £10k to defend. Again, we're not withdrawing it we appear to be trying to pay it. If HMRC were to withdraw the petition then surely it wouldn't cost anything in legal fees?

The Club, like any other business with a cashflow problem, is working month to month (even day to day at points). The provisions which you're demanding have been made - we're due to receive money from Sainsburys to cover our bills but this month they didn't pay up. We can all see the consequences.

 

[Beefy]

Being such a 'nominal fee' i would pay £30K out of my own money and reclaim later.

A point that Cricko said that he made to TB. Does anyone know that either TB or RM have that kind of cash lying around?

 

[EastStandBlue]

Of course and neither is acceptable but maybe you could try and answer my question, how much extra do you think this has cost us and furthermore how much extra have we paid out in legal fees etc. over the last 2 years ?

It's never acceptable to pay your employees late but I think
this situation is becoming untenable. Surely it's not beyond someone whether that be TB, RM or an accountant within the club (do we have one ?) to have foreseen the current cashflow situation and made provision before wasting more money we don't have on fighting HMRC.

Just WTF is going on as it appears nobody has a clue what they are doing.

I think they have foreseen the current cashflow situation. All that's come out of the club over the past month or so is TB or RM stating that money's tight, and PS has said that before he brings anybody in people would have to move out... All signs pointed towards an ongoing or impending cash flow shortage and, as Beefy has pointed out previously, this may have been more aimed at Sainsbury's than supporters.

So, we're evidently in a cashflow shortage and Sainsbury's have obviously informed the club that no money was coming in until the council had approved the phased development. What do you expect the club to do in the meantime? Take out a loan? Well, that's not a goer because nobody would loan us money. We haven't got the money to pay, so there's not an awful lot we can do about it apart from wait until the council approved the plans and Sainsbury's released the cash. Money's due to arrive this week, is it not?

 

[Norfolkshrimp]

So, we're evidently in a cashflow shortage and Sainsbury's have obviously informed the club that no money was coming in until the council had approved the phased development. What do you expect the club to do in the meantime? Take out a loan? Well, that's not a goer because nobody would loan us money. We haven't got the money to pay, so there's not an awful lot we can do about it apart from wait until the council approved the plans and Sainsbury's released the cash. Money's due to arrive this week, is it not?

Hang on, rewind to when we got the last Sainsbury payment, clearly whatever budget (if they even bothered to do one) has not been adhered to. Knowing how tight the situation is they should have looked at the worst case scenario and made sure we had at least 1-2 months safety net ? Why does it always have to result in being taken to court, it seems this in now an accepted culture at the club. We cannot afford to be fighting these battles all the time. Not only is it a further drain on resources but if you were a player with over half the season gone you'd be looking at where you were going to be going next season if there was any doubt over your wages. We could very quickly end up in the same situation as this time last year.

 

[CHEMICO FC]

I think its time sainsburys came out the clossit and shed abit of light whot there doing for this club. If its bailing us out or kicking us out.Everyones in limbo with whots happening to us with the old ground and new ground.:soapbox::angry:

 

[EastStandBlue]

Hang on, rewind to when we got the last Sainsbury payment, clearly whatever budget (if they even bothered to do one) has not been adhered to. Knowing how tight the situation is they should have looked at the worst case scenario and made sure we had at least 1-2 months safety net ? Why does it always have to result in being taken to court, it seems this in now an accepted culture at the club. We cannot afford to be fighting these battles all the time. Not only is it a further drain on resources but if you were a player with over half the season gone you'd be looking at where you were going to be going next season if there was any doubt over your wages. We could very quickly end up in the same situation as this time last year.

You're view is taking the stance that we've had options. Where are we getting the finance from for a 1-2 month safety net? We evidently can't pay our bills as they fall due, let alone putting aside money for a contingency plan. It seems to me at least that the club chose to pay the players first, thinking that the HMRC wouldn't slap a winding-up petition on the club if we were one or two weeks late while the council met to approve the plans, which in turn would release finances. As it happens, RM's "frosty" relationship with HMRC has gone against him (shock) and we were hit with the order snappily.

 

[WESTY_SUFC]

A point that Cricko said that he made to TB. Does anyone know that either TB or RM have that kind of cash lying around?

I would be astonished if they dont!

 

[Norfolkshrimp]

You're view is taking the stance that we've had options. Where are we getting the finance from for a 1-2 month safety net? We evidently can't pay our bills as they fall due, let alone putting aside money for a contingency plan. It seems to me at least that the club chose to pay the players first, thinking that the HMRC wouldn't slap a winding-up petition on the club if we were one or two weeks late while the council met to approve the plans, which in turn would release finances. As it happens, RM's "frosty" relationship with HMRC has gone against him (shock) and we were hit with the order snappily.

You're missing the point totally.

We had the option to put in place a strict budget when we got the big lump from Sainsbury.

I reckon most 10 yr olds budget their pocket money better than RM does his businesses.

 

[Norfolkshrimp]

I would be astonished if they dont!

I agree and in TB's case the most likely reason he hasn't stumped up a short term loan is fear of never seeing it again and who can blame him.

 

[EastStandBlue]

You're missing the point totally.

We had the option to put in place a strict budget when we got the big lump from Sainsbury.

I reckon most 10 yr olds budget their pocket money better than RM does his businesses.

I think you're missing the point, it being that no matter the budget our problems were not going to just disappear overnight. The big lump from Sainsbury's went on paying historic debts, with the rest being used to sustain the club over the course of this season and, as such, it's being distributed incrementally. The club itself doesn't generate enough income to meet its obligations and these increments are being used to aid that... When one installment doesn't arrive, we get into problems.

 

[Norfolkshrimp]

I think you're missing the point, it being that no matter the budget our problems were not going to just disappear overnight. The big lump from Sainsbury's went on paying historic debts, with the rest being used to sustain the club over the course of this season and, as such, it's being distributed incrementally. The club itself doesn't generate enough income to meet its obligations and these increments are being used to aid that... When one installment doesn't arrive, we get into problems.

Over the head again LOL

It clearly hasn't been used to sustain the club over the course of the season because we're skint again.

So are you seriously trying to tell me that whatever was left over has been budgeted for in a professional manner and decisions made at the start of the season to ensure we stayed within that budget ?

Another scenario is they only budgeted until Xmas but I find that hard to believe. The writing was on the wall when they sacked Widdrington, an early sign that we had once again over spent / miscalculated. Why does everything have to be reactive rather than proactive ? Answer = because we have an idiot running the club.