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Tangled up in Blue

Certified Senior Citizen⭐
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Davros

The Whippet
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Dealing with the social welfare system is a dirty job, that needed doing. Unfortunately the labour party didn't want to get their hands dirty. Have the Conservatives got it right... probably not... but at least they are trying to do something about a problem that has needed sorting for at least 10 years.
 
Joined
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leigh on sea
Dealing with the social welfare system is a dirty job, that needed doing. Unfortunately the labour party didn't want to get their hands dirty. Have the Conservatives got it right... probably not... but at least they are trying to do something about a problem that has needed sorting for at least 10 years.
Exactly. We cannot continue to make it worthwhile to claim benefit rather than work. It is a life style choice for some and unfortunately this is being and has been passed to their children who have zero chance of a job. I don't know if anyone saw a TV report on a village in Wales. There were about 700 in the village and now about 200 of them are eastern European . There is one big employer; a meat processing plant on minimum wage. All the eastern Europeans work at the factory and the locals were actually very welcoming of them. However they interviewed a young Welsh lad who worked at the plant. He basically said that his mates would not work there as it was 12 hour shifts, minimum wage and hard work. They'd rather do nothing than that. Said it all for me.
 

MK Shrimper

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 6, 2005
Messages
52,329
Not to worry, at least one old dear missed the benefit cuts. £5M payrise for Liz Windsor. Nice one Dave.
 

Tangled up in Blue

Certified Senior Citizen⭐
Joined
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Not to worry, at least one old dear missed the benefit cuts. £5M payrise for Liz Windsor. Nice one Dave.

Co-incidentally (or not) Liz is the same age as my widowed mother-in-law, who at 87 still lives at home, not on benefits but on her teacher's and widow's pension.
That however doesn't cover the cost of her 24/7 hour care-which her son and my wife jointly pay for-as well as caring for her themselves on alternate weekends, as my mother-in-law has Alzheimer's.
It's a tough old world out there for the elderly-but not if you're a Windsor.
 
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Crabby Shrimper

President
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Newport
Just as well I don't usually read The Torygraph then. :winking:

Personally I prefer to get news from across a broad range of sources. Whilst the Telegraph (misspelling it doesn't make you clever, just makes you look an idiot) is predominantly to the right, the Guardian is too the left. By reading both you may get some balance. By happily only reading the Guardian you're saying "I don't want facts, I want things I agree with" which also makes you look an idiot
 
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Tangled up in Blue

Certified Senior Citizen⭐
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Personally I prefer to get news from across a broad range of sources. Whilst the Telegraph (misspelling it doesn't make you clever, just a ****) is predominantly to the right, the Guardian is too the left. By reading both you may get some balance. By happily only reading the Guardian you're saying "I don't want facts, I want things I agree with" which also makes you a ****

Actually, I can't claim credit for the Torygraph deliberate misspelling,as you would know if you were a regular Private Eye reader.

As it happens, I remember from my BA (Hons) Politics degree course, most of us block out anything we disagree with in the newspaper(s) we regularly read.As far as balance is concerned, I get a daily dose of that by watching the BBC news.

(FYI,I occasionally get a copy of the Times/Torygraph when I'm in France-mainly for the football coverage).

I've always thought your new username was particularly apt and your post just confirms it.:raspberry:

Meanwhile here are ten myths or lies about the benefit cuts that you might care to read about.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/02/ten-lies-told-about-welfare
 
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Crabby Shrimper

President
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Messages
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Location
Newport
As it happens, I remember from my BA (Hons) Politics degree course, most of us block out anything we disagree with in the newspaper(s) we regularly read.As far as balance is concerned, I get a daily dose of that by watching the BBC news.

Just got to get in a bit about you and what you've done eh? it's all "me me me". I welcome opposing views, so that shows what a load of codswallop your course was. maybe you should've studied something of use to society, such as pottery?

I use the BBC as my base line, with left/right views taken from left/right publications. If you're using the BBc to counter a left wing publication, then you're missing out an entire side of the argument.

Pretty much as you appear to do on here
 

Tangled up in Blue

Certified Senior Citizen⭐
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I use the BBC as my base line, with left/right views taken from left/right publications. If you're using the BBc to counter a left wing publication, then you're missing out an entire side of the argument.*

:off topic:

I don't watch the BBC news to "counter" what you perceive as a "left wing publication." I watch it because I enjoy it and like to be as well-informed as I can about what's going on in the world.That also the reason I'm happy to watch the Spanish news on TVE1 or Catalan news on TV3 when I'm able to.
 

Neil_F

Coach
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Messages
848
Location
Islington
Meanwhile here are ten myths or lies about the benefit cuts that you might care to read about.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/02/ten-lies-told-about-welfare

It is hard to know where to start with this. For a start, it is written by an actor best known for playing a poor person on TV. Second, it sets up a number of straw man arguments that I've not heard people make in most cases and then argues against them.

Here goes:

1. Benefits are too generous - the article cites the £53 challenge made to IDS. It now turns out that the person who claimed they only get £53 actually gets £232 per month housing and £200 per month working tax credit plus the earnings from his market stall.

2. This one bemoans the 1% increase - It complains that inflation is higher yet fails to point out that private sector wage increases this year are less than 1% on average. Further to that, two years ago benefits were increased by 5.2%, significantly above private sector increases. The point made makes the assumption that benefits should keep pace with the cost of living to maintain a lifestyle. That is the source of the current problem not the solution.

3. Says there are no jobs - There are currently 600,000 vacancies.

4. On the spare room subsidy for foster carers - I have no idea about this.

5. Complaining about social tenants having to downsize - personally I don't see the problem. You have to live within your means and it is an opportunity to find work if there is nothing available locally.

6. Apparently it is a problem that housing benefit goes to landlords - I'm not sure what the point is. Is he arguing for the confiscation of property?

7. About fraud - I have not heard a single person advance the argument that welfare changes are necessary because of fraud.

8. Apparently people say it is all the fault of teenage mothers - has anyone heard this claim? I haven't.

9. Another argument that I've never heard used.

10. He ran out of points so moved on to the NHS.

All in all it is one of the most ill considered and weak articles I've read in a national paper. The final paragraph is a giveaway as it refers to the Unite campaign. It was clearly written by them and the actor agreed to put his name to it. Is that really what political discourse has come to?

Here is one fact that the article doesn't mention: This year 29% of all government spending will be on welfare. That is £207.6bn. The total income tax and National Insurance paid was £252bn. Put another way, for every £1 that the government takes off your payslip 83p goes to people in the form of welfare.

Alternatively, every penny raised in income tax, Corporation tax, petroleum revenue tax, inheritence tax and stamp duties is entirely spent on welfare.
 

Tangled up in Blue

Certified Senior Citizen⭐
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Messages
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Neil,since you're so keen on figures, I wonder if you know what the current debt ratio to GDP is? Also do you know what that ratio was after World War 2?*

I take it you get my point?





















*82% and 200%,respectively.
 

Neil_F

Coach
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Messages
848
Location
Islington
I understand the point but I'm not sure you do, not that it is related to this topic at all.

In 1945 GDP had collapsed. You'll note that virtually the entire working population left their jobs to fight for the survival of the nation. Here is some simple maths: 1/2 = 50% and 1/1 = 100%. There are two contributory factors to a percentage.

The UK borrowed to save itself during the period. I don't recall a similar war during the period 2001 - 2008, though perhaps I missed it. You'll also find UK GDP reboundly enormously after the war as people returned to their jobs and women remained in the workforce. There was also a huge increase in productivity that resulted from the R&D that went on during the 5 years. There will be no such rebound in GDP now because trend growth has declined.

You're comparing two numbers without understanding either how a percentage is actually calculated or what the underlying causes are. You then see one is higher than the other and draw an entirely inappropriate conclusion.
 

superblue24

Director
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
3,466
Location
Ipswich
You're comparing two numbers without understanding either how a percentage is actually calculated or what the underlying causes are. You then see one is higher than the other and draw an entirely inappropriate conclusion.

But did you not realize that Barna holds a Masters Degree in Advanced Mathematics?
 

Tangled up in Blue

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I understand the point but I'm not sure you do, not that it is related to this topic at all.

Actually it is.Britain managed to pay back its war debt eventually and I believe the current level of debt could also be repaid over time.

In 1945 GDP had collapsed. You'll note that virtually the entire working population left their jobs to fight for the survival of the nation. Here is some simple maths: 1/2 = 50% and 1/1 = 100%. There are two contributory factors to a percentage.

The UK borrowed to save itself during the period. I don't recall a similar war during the period 2001 - 2008, though perhaps I missed it.
ç

You seem to have conveniently forgotten the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

You'll also find UK GDP reboundly enormously after the war as people returned to their jobs and women remained in the workforce. There was also a huge increase in productivity that resulted from the R&D that went on during the 5 years. There will be no such rebound in GDP now because trend growth has declined.

It's always easier to pay back debt in periods of economic growth.That's the main problem this Tory government has at the moment.There's no significant growth whatsoever.Consequently, the national debt is rising (not falling)and the deficit reduction plan has stalled.

You're comparing two numbers without understanding either how a percentage is actually calculated or what the underlying causes are.
You then see one is higher than the other and draw an entirely inappropriate conclusion.

I'll grant you that I don't have your level of statistical acumen but I did pass a course in statistics in the first year of my degree course, so I do have some statistical knowledge.
 

Tangled up in Blue

Certified Senior Citizen⭐
Joined
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Messages
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Good grief, are you being serious? Are you seriously comparing World War II with Iraq and Afghanistan? Please tell me you aren't!

Obviously not.
Nevertheless both wars were (and still are, at least with respect to Afghanistan),a significant drain on GB's financial resources.

Please try to see the bigger picure where analogies are being drawn, rather than taking such statements literally.
 
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