Are we close to the edge once more?

[fleabag1]

I just get so upset I thought we would make the playoffs but we are so poor .

 

[GBJ]

I find it hard to see how we’ve been in a worse situation before?

When we got relegated from Lg1 last time, we had an abundance of players, who were on ridiculous wages - same as now.

We went through winding-up orders, and non-payment of wages, sure. But we had a better reputation back then, with players/agents/managers/investors

We had less debts.

We were (seemingly) closer to the move to FF.

We had a manger who had been in the game for decades, and as such, had many contacts to rely on. Can we say the same about Sol?

We actually had interest, from people wanting to buy Ron out. If that was ever going to happen, it was probably a few months ago (allegedy, I don’t know), but for whatever reason, they decided it wasn’t for them.

 

[Wingnut]

All clubs are on the edge well in the lower league's anyway

 

[camden shrimper]

I think Ron had mentally sold up to the Swedish consortium and this is the panicked fall out from that.

 

[Green Wizard]

For me the Premiership effect is starting to bite, thanks to the FA selling their soul. Before then there were few clubs going out of business and with football on Sky most children support the big clubs they see on television. Player's wages have increased dramatically and the only long term sustainability might be for a reorganisation of lower leagues and be part-time.

 

[rigsby]

By coincidence a group of us spoke to Ron about this very subject in the RH car park yesterday. I cant remember his exact words but he said something along the lines of..
Don’t push me cause I’m close to the edge, I’m trying not to lose my head. It’s like a jungle sometimes, it makes me wonder how I keep from going under.

Then he looked around and mumbled something about Broken glass everywhere and people p****** on the stair....apparently they just don’t care!!.

All very bizarre if you ask me..... He spoke to us like he was some sort of grand master and that was it. He was gone in a flash and it left the five of us furious.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

For me the Premiership effect is starting to bite, thanks to the FA selling their soul. Before then there were few clubs going out of business and with football on Sky most children support the big clubs they see on television. Player's wages have increased dramatically and the only long term sustainability might be for a reorganisation of lower leagues and be part-time.

All very likely and yes the FA, Sly TV, PFA and poor parenting make this a scenario of shame.
The FL clubs aren't blameless, they (we) have all joined the clamour for glamour in search of the yellow brick road to the Chumpship and beyond.
I could never support another league team but non league, maybe.

 

[londonblue]

I find it hard to see how we’ve been in a worse situation before?

How about needing to borrow money from the likes of Ken Bates to stay in business? Or when Anton Johnson stole the Christmas Club money?

(This could become a Life of Brian type argument so let's stop there. I'm not saying things aren't bad now, just that - believe it or not - they have been worse.)

 

[GBJ]

How about needing to borrow money from the likes of Ken Bates to stay in business? Or when Anton Johnson stole the Christmas Club money?

(This could become a Life of Brian type argument so let's stop there. I'm not saying things aren't bad now, just that - believe it or not - they have been worse.)

That was slightly before my time I think. Well, certainly before I could comprehend it, anyway.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

How about needing to borrow money from the likes of Ken Bates to stay in business? Or when Anton Johnson stole the Christmas Club money?

(This could become a Life of Brian type argument so let's stop there. I'm not saying things aren't bad now, just that - believe it or not - they have been worse.)

Whether things were worse or not in the past is largely irrelevant.They 're certainly bad enough now and likekly to get even worse in short order.

 

[Chairman Trigg]

How about needing to borrow money from the likes of Ken Bates to stay in business? Or when Anton Johnson stole the Christmas Club money?

(This could become a Life of Brian type argument so let's stop there. I'm not saying things aren't bad now, just that - believe it or not - they have been worse.)

We didn't have the internet or SZ then so only had the Echo as a news feed .....don't think many had a clue what was going on apart from those queueing for their Christmas club money.Mind you the supporters losing ownership of RH.... don't think would have happened in today's world

 

[OldBlueLady]

I don't think the Trust have been asked to lend him any money yet, so things can't be as bad as the end of the Tilly years........can they?

 

[Firestorm]

How about needing to borrow money from the likes of Ken Bates to stay in business? Or when Anton Johnson stole the Christmas Club money?

(This could become a Life of Brian type argument so let's stop there. I'm not saying things aren't bad now, just that - believe it or not - they have been worse.)

24 hours from Liquidation was what I heard.

The big difference at the moment, as has been stated before, is not the debt , but who its owed to and the pressure t repay. in two of the previous encounters with insolvency, there were corporate entities seeking their funds back (Banks I believe) who would have wound the club up, the vast majority of our debt is to inter group companies who, whilst the idea of FF is still on the horizon, don't want their money back any time soon.
Our only real enemy is cash flow, getting cash in to meet the short term liabilities has become critical, primarily due to lack of home games , poor form sending attendances down and no cup run. Ron appears to have written the season off to some degree, whilst still trying to stir enthusiasm up (we will stay up etc etc) and is cutting back on expenditure whilst trying to raise money.
One of The usual income streams at this time , half season tickets will not materialise due to the poor form, gate money for the rest of the season will be lower than budgeted, due to form as well as fixture changes giving us back to back home games in short succession (and midweek) which always limit the attendance , So its sell players when the opportunity arises , January.
Are we close to the edge ? As a club, probably no closer than several occasions before in recent history and a few more in the clubs entire history, we are not folding like we did a hundred years ago.
As a half decent football team? I fear we may be on the brink of an extended bottom tier run (7 seasons 66-71 and 98-04 being the benchmarks there).

If, some may say when, FF finally dies a death , then we can really ask if we are at the point of no club

 

[Farmer Fossett]

I will be surprised if we don’t enter into administration before the end of the year. FF not being built, the Sainsbury’s Roots Hall Saga, poor form and the reliance on one person keeping us in business is killing us!

 

[Blueronron]

How about needing to borrow money from the likes of Ken Bates to stay in business? Or when Anton Johnson stole the Christmas Club money?

(This could become a Life of Brian type argument so let's stop there. I'm not saying things aren't bad now, just that - believe it or not - they have been worse.)

Don't forget Robert Maxwell as well

 

[Firestorm]

I will be surprised if we don’t enter into administration before the end of the year. FF not being built, the Sainsbury’s Roots Hall Saga, poor form and the reliance on one person keeping us in business is killing us!

The biggest worry , re Administration , for me is the signing off of the accounts , we need to prove we are a going concern , in the past the Auditors have taken it that the Parent company is in a position to maintain the club , over the next couple of months as the accounts to July 19 are finalised , that question will arise again and should that position not be accepted (although the reduction of the debts will more than likely work in the clubs favour) then the league may take a hard stance...

Other than the HMRC I cant see anyone winding us up, or certainly not being paid before the winding up hearing is heard , so unless things go pop above us, I can't see Administration being the issue ,

 

[kentblues]

The biggest worry , re Administration , for me is the signing off of the accounts , we need to prove we are a going concern , in the past the Auditors have taken it that the Parent company is in a position to maintain the club , over the next couple of months as the accounts to July 19 are finalised , that question will arise again and should that position not be accepted (although the reduction of the debts will more than likely work in the clubs favour) then the league may take a hard stance...

Other than the HMRC I cant see anyone winding us up, or certainly not being paid before the winding up hearing is heard , so unless things go pop above us, I can't see Administration being the issue ,

We don't need to prove we are going concern? Most EFL clubs aren't going concerns. Mostly propped up by owners. I suspect the accounts will point out the obvious and that the club is reliant on the continuing support of Ron/his companies as has been the case for a number of years.

 

[davewebbsbrain]

 

[Firestorm]

We don't need to prove we are going concern? Most EFL clubs aren't going concerns. Mostly propped up by owners. I suspect the accounts will point out the obvious and that the club is reliant on the continuing support of Ron/his companies as has been the case for a number of years.

Thats my point,

The Auditors responsibilities include Evaluating the appropriateness of the Directors use of the Going concern basis of accounting and checking for material uncertainty , if they think that SEL are unable to provide further funds then they may well not sign the accounts off

 

[kentblues]

Thats my point,

The Auditors responsibilities include Evaluating the appropriateness of the Directors use of the Going concern basis of accounting and checking for material uncertainty , if they think that SEL are unable to provide further funds then they may well not sign the accounts off

View attachment 10786

And you will see exactly the same paragraph cut and pasted into the latest accounts. Nothing will change.