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Slipperduke

The Camden Cad
Joined
Aug 24, 2004
Messages
4,333
Location
North London
WAS BILIC RIGHT? HAVE ENGLAND LOST THEIR 'ENGLISHNESS'?

Well, if he meant that we no longer play artless, stone-age football, devoid of movement and guile, then he hit the nail on the head. If his idea of 'Englishness', is to canter through games as if the result has already been secured by the power of reputation and the size of the pay-cheque, then there's no argument from me. England certainly didn't look much like England on Wednesday night.

A typical English manager would have bowed to media pressure and replaced Emile Heskey with Jermain Defoe, but Fabio Capello stood firm. The shape and welfare of the team was more important than the cause of the individual. Heskey held the line superbly, knocking the ball into space with his head, or at one point, with a delicate backheel on the edge of the box. He dragged the larger defenders out of the way to create space for his team-mates, selflessly working for his comrades. Of his two golden chances to score, he was denied first by a superb save, a real textbook piece of goalkeeping, and then by his peculiar habit of falling over in front of the target. England can put up with that. Yes, Defoe would have scored at least one of them, but how many chances would he have created for anyone else? More to the point, how many times did England make the ball stick in the final third when Heskey departed?

And then there's Steven Gerrard and Frank Lampard. In recent years, you could have defined 'Englishness' as an inability to realise potential, or a failure to acknowledge that they could be more than the sum of their parts. Capello has brought the team together. For the first time, Gerrard looked comfortable out on the left flank, cutting in. With Gareth Barry back to maintain the balance in the centre, Lampard was free to do what he does best. Finally, this was a group of exceptionally talented footballers playing as a team, using their individual strengths to compensate for the weaknesses of others. Bilic was right. England have lost their Englishness. And not a moment too soon.

WHAT'S THE SECRET OF CAPELLO'S SUCCESS?

Simplicity. Capello started with the basics and went from there. Working from the theory that if a team is disciplined off the pitch, they'll be disciplined on it, he brought in a new code of conduct that was light years away from the laissez-faire 'summer-camp' attitude of Steve McClaren. Then he told the players to pass the ball to each other, not the opposition. It wasn't rocket science. Once the squad was settled, playing simple football, it was only a matter of time before the confidence grew. Capello refused to allow himself to be distracted by dissenting voices in the media and no player dared to challenge him in public. Wednesday's stunning victory is the end result of simple, effective leadership.

SO, CAN ENGLAND WIN THE WORLD CUP?

Steady on! England look like a very good team, but World Cups are wonderfully illogical tournaments. History is littered with superb teams who missed out on immortality because of nerves, a nasty injury, a bad refereeing decision or just simple bad luck. All Capello can do is pick a strong squad, prepare them well and then react as well as he can to whatever disasters impact upon his plans. There's no doubt in my mind that England possess just as much of a threat as Holland, Spain and Brazil, the other three favourites, but that means nothing if a perfectly good goal is disallowed, or if the ball moves from the penalty spot during a shoot-out. Flushed with success, Capello's greatest challenge now is to manage the enormous expectations of the nation.
 
Given that the likes of the Argies and the French are looking odds on to not qualify, I reckon we've got a shot.

Of course, this is England we're talking about. Knowing our luck we'll lose to North Korea.

To be fair, we have usually done about enough to beat the weaker nations when we play them. The concern and difficulty has always been when we have played one of the big boys we can be competive but not do enough to win the game (often resulting in penalty lose!).

The first world cup I remember was '86 and I can only think of group a group win against Argentina as a game where we have beaten one of the big nations. Spain 82 we beat France in the group, but I cant think of many impressive knockout victories. The one semi final, 2 quarter finals have been on the back of wins against Belgium, Cameroon and Equador (or was it Paraguay). To really step up we need to be able to do it against the big teams. Here's hoping we can!
 
good write up Mr Duke.

Ratings:

Green 7.5
Johnson 7.5
Terry 7.5
Upson 7.5
Cole 7.5
Lennon 9 MOTM
Lampard 8.5
Barry 8
Gerrard 8.5
Rooney 8
Heskey 7.5

Subs:
Defoe 6.5
Beckham 7
Milner 6.5
 
Given that the likes of the Argies and the French are looking odds on to not qualify, I reckon we've got a shot.

Of course, this is England we're talking about. Knowing our luck we'll lose to North Korea.

A key factor as well which I think only got mentioned once last night, is the fact the tournament will be held in the winter in SA. Think back to Mexico 70 & 86 and Italy 90, the closest we've probably come since winning. I'd say part of our failiure was related to the hot weather conditions.
 
If we enter the WC with a fully fit squad of players, I'm actually quietly confident... The only nation I think that could outclass us at the moment is Spain, who to me seem lightyears ahead of anybody else in the world at the moment.
 
A key factor as well which I think only got mentioned once last night, is the fact the tournament will be held in the winter in SA. Think back to Mexico 70 & 86 and Italy 90, the closest we've probably come since winning. I'd say part of our failiure was related to the hot weather conditions.

Not sure I agree with that Rich, in 1970 England had what many thought was a better team in 1966, Ramsey may a serious error in subbing Bobby Charlton thinking the game was won at 2-0. 1986 England probably progressed through luck rather than management. The same could also be said about 1990 as England were woeful in the group stages, before Robson stumbled upon the system of 3-5-2 (or 5-3-2 whichever way you look at it).

Winter in South Africa is a whole lot different, and will depend where teams will be based for the group stages. If they are on the Indian Ocean around Durban it will be warm & humid. If on the Atlantic side around Cape Town it can get distinctly wet and chilly. Plus there's altitude to take into account with the high veldt cities of Jo'Burg, Bloemfontein & Pretoria to consider.
 
The good thing about Capello is he doesnt seem likely to make the kind of mad decisions that previous England maangers have made- and his CV is proof of that.
Still think we are lacking a world class goalie and not sure the right side is that strong defensivley but the confidence is oozing throughout the squad, we keep the ball better, have 2 world class centre backs, probably the best left back in the world and still the likes of Joe Cole, Hargreaves and Crouch to make an impression.
My one concern would be the amount of games the likes of Gerrard, Rooney and Terry will paly this season with the champions league, fa cup, premier league and carling cup. Could be 60+ games for some of them.
If- and its a big if- we can go with a fully rested, fully fit squad then we will never have a better chance with probably the best manager in world football right now,and players approacing their peak with one last chance to bring home the glory. I would rate only Spain and Brazil above us, but strange things happen in big tournaments, always shocks and surprises.
 
Is he world class? I don't think so.

Not far off, not an elite keeper like the Germans or Italians have had (or even Banks/Shilton) but he's sound, far more of an all-round quality keeper than the likes of Green & James (oh plus he doesn't play, or indeed has never played, for the Spammers)...
 
Not far off, not an elite keeper like the Germans or Italians have had (or even Banks/Shilton) but he's sound, far more of an all-round quality keeper than the likes of Green & James (oh plus he doesn't play, or indeed has never played, for the Spammers)...

Some fair points there.
 
I personally found Bilic's comments regarding us losing our "Englishness" hilariously hypocritical, considering Eduardo da Silva is about as Croatian as I am.
 
I certainly picked a good game for my first England visit!

The mentality of the team seems light years from what we've seen before. We don't look rushed in possession any more but we have many attacking options that would worry most defences.

I had to sit and endure endless 'Heskey you're ****' remarks around me, generally though from younger kids though not exclusively, so i didn't bother stating Heskey's case for being in the side but surely it's plainly there for all to see. Having someone like Defoe in reserve must be a good thing.

All in all though we're in better shape than we've been for a while now, there's still a few things to iron out, hopefully Johnson's defensive work can be improved but Capello has done a marvellous job so far.
 
Yes, England are good. And they have been for a while - the deification of South American and Spanish football and the lambasting of England as 'stone-age' has been around just as long. It's lazy formulaic journalism that gets right on my thrupennies.
 
Yes, England are good. And they have been for a while - the deification of South American and Spanish football and the lambasting of England as 'stone-age' has been around just as long. It's lazy formulaic journalism that gets right on my thrupennies.

We've been **** for years, Rusty! We were great up until about 2004/05 and then the wheels came off. We blundered through qualification for the World Cup and then embarrassed ourselves in front of everyone. We were so appalling in Germany that we left a stink in the stadium!

Paraguay? Shocking game, we played in our sleep. Trinidad and Toboggans? Risible. We could have lost it. Granted, we weren't bad for one half of the game against Sweden, but then buggered up the other one. Ecuador? Crap and rescued by a Beckham FK. Portugal? Rubbish until we had the excuse of honourable failure!

Don't even get me started on the hit'n'hope of the McClaren era. Long ball is bad enough, but long ball to midgets is just stupid. And Nicky Shorey?! Seriously?!

Andorra, Rusty! Andorra! 56 minutes of stalemate! We were so desperate that Gerrard had to start diving about looking for penalties!

There's loads of lazy, formulaic journalism out there and God knows I'm responsible for much of it, but it's not lazy to point out that we're playing football properly now when we haven't for a long time. It's not formulaic to deify Spanish football when they're so clearly superior!
 
Andorra, Rusty! Andorra! 56 minutes of stalemate! We were so desperate that Gerrard had to start diving about looking for penalties!

Although don't forget we were also 0-0 at half-time against Andorra in this campaign. Credit to Capello back then for bringing on Joe Cole, who instantly changed the game. I really hope he can play his way in to the squad for South Africa.
 
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