Brexit negotiations thread

[Bielzibubz]

What was unpleasant about it?
Plenty of people suggest David coming back and 'saving' the Labour Party often without having anything to back up the suggestion. In my mind a party has one leader, if it turns out not be you and your reaction is to quit as an MP and leave British politics then that is a good indication that you weren't right for the job.

Similarly with people who want Boris Johnson to be next Tory leader - he quit the leadership race last time round and quit as Foreign Secretary mid Brexit negotiations - he is too flighty. We need politicians who don't run.

What, like Teresa May?





Well, you asked for that

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

What, like Teresa May?





Well, you asked for that

She does run.......out of ideas very quickly!

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I'm afraid Labour screwed it up again............you got the wrong brother as leader.

Yogi,the only Miliband worth a damm was Ralph and I doubt he was ever a member of the Labour party.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

"Screw the grandchildren, I'm in this for myself!"

Honest.But hardly very noble.Whatever happened to the "sunny uplands?"

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

And yet she's still there and Corbyn isn't. That says it all.

Yes.It says May's too scared to call yet another Brexit election because she knows she'll lose this time.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

what changes to May's deal is Nandy expecting? As it stands EU are not budging and May doesn't seem to be embracing anyone else's input.

She appeared to be after some movement toward's Corbyn's customs union idea.That's obviously unlikely to happen but she seemed to think pretty much any deal May came back with would be better than a no deal Brexit and thus worth voting for.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Ohhhh no. The economy didn't grow as fast as some predicted.

That's it, I'm emigrating. I don't think I can cope with food rationing, scurvy and seeing kids suffering from malnutrition playing in the gutter.

Still, could be worse. We could be in recession!

PS, I've edited your original for a little bit of objective clarity ;)

It wouldn't suprise me at all if the UK was in recession before the end of this year.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

No wonder the country is divided. Someone posts.....I defy and in less than 20minutes he is defied.

If we had voted by 52% to remain, I wonder if this thread would have reached 5,600 posts
Would politicians and those that should never be defied be calling for a peoples vote?
Or how about a soft Remain because the vote was very narrow[/QUOTE]

That's one of the sensible things you've ever said on here.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

As a regular poster on Shrimperzone. I enjoy reading this Brexit Forum.
It does remind me of children arguing.
People living abroad with more opnion's than us who have stayed. It makes me smile.!!
I voted remain and would again. (probably the only one in Rochford). I do think people did not realise what they were voting for. But we voted out, so that's the people choice.!!

I also have voted Lib Dem for 30 years. BUT I totally disagree that we should have a second vote. If another is held what does that say for democracy. People would lose faith in ever voting again. We just need to get on with this. A no deal would also be a disaster for the U.K.

My views on the party's. Labour, There leader wont even tell us what or how we should leave. Does he agree on a second vote. Now if we had someone like Andy Burnham in charge. I would seriously consider switching to Labour. Mrs May. I admire her stubborn ways, especially as it was Cameron who got her into this. The better of two evils.!!
Lib Dem's just need a decent leader, Vince good but too old. One before a disaster!!
Anyway I will watch this again not post, but it is a enjoyable read.

AB was of course defeated by JC in a democratic ballot in 2015.

Corbyn's policy on Brexit in general and another referendum in particular,has been quite clear for some time now.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

She appeared to be after some movement toward's Corbyn's customs union idea.That's obviously unlikely to happen but she seemed to think pretty much any deal May came back with would be better than a no deal Brexit and thus worth voting for.

she needs to toughen up then rather than accept any old ****e because of an idle threat.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Pull the ladder up, Tangled is aboard...….

"What about the 50% of young people who don't have a job in Spain?"...…
"Let them eat cake and read Keynes"

Our two young adult daughters would certainly qualify as young people.One of them was born in Spain and both have joint Spanish/French nationality (and could claim British nationality if they wanted to).The older one (35 in August) has been working here as a teacher for a few years now (and in France before that).The younger one (25 last December) is currently working for the French government, AFD, in Colombia after working here in Spain.


BTW,You're the one who's "pulling up the ladder" by denying future generations of young Brits the chance to live and work in the EU in future.

Also a quick google search reveals that the % of youth unemployment in Spain is 32.7% and not 50%

"In December 2018, the seasonally adjusted youth unemployment rate in Spain was 32.7." percent. "

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Yogi,the only Miliband worth a damm was Ralph and I doubt he was ever a member of the Labour party.

Served in the Royal Navy in WWII yet hated Britain according to the Mail who actually backed the Nazis.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Served in the Royal Navy in WWII yet hated Britain according to the Mail who actually backed the Nazis.

Yeah I was lucky enough to see him talk back in the 70's.He was extremely grateful for the UK for taking him (and his wife) in as refugees during WW2 .He was also a friendly critic of the PLP too,as his wonderful book, Parliamentary Socialism made clear.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

she needs to toughen up then rather than accept any old ****e because of an idle threat.

It seems to me that a no deal Brexit is rather more than an idle threat.It really does seem to be a question of who'll blink first (and it won't be the EU).As far as LN is concerned, she makes great play of her constituents in Wigan being in great danger of losing jobs etc,which seems fair enough to me.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

What was unpleasant about it?
Plenty of people suggest David coming back and 'saving' the Labour Party often without having anything to back up the suggestion. In my mind a party has one leader, if it turns out not be you and your reaction is to quit as an MP and leave British politics then that is a good indication that you weren't right for the job.

Similarly with people who want Boris Johnson to be next Tory leader - he quit the leadership race last time round and quit as Foreign Secretary mid Brexit negotiations - he is too flighty. We need politicians who don't run.

Look, I'm not privy to the inner struggles of the Labour Party yet from what I remember it was a very bitter contest between the two brothers.............didn't it lead to them not talking to each other. In that context isn't it understandable and even reasonable, as to why he would want out and give himself a new challenge?

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Look, I'm not privy to the inner struggles of the Labour Party yet from what I remember it was a very bitter contest between the two brothers.............didn't it lead to them not talking to each other. In that context isn't it understandable and even reasonable, as to why he would want out and give himself a new challenge?

Neither am I. I think it was hammed up in the media because they were brothers.
New challenge, sure, but means he is out of UK politics and has been for 5? years now, those who think he will slot back in and make everything amazing have probably not thought it through.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

It seems to me that a no deal Brexit is rather more than an idle threat.It really does seem to be a question of who'll blink first (and it won't be the EU).As far as LN is concerned, she makes great play of her constituents in Wigan being in great danger of losing jobs etc,which seems fair enough to me.

Neither UK nor EU Parliaments want no deal. I think the only way it would come about is literally through May being so incompetent that she doesn't have the mechanism to prevent it.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Neither am I. I think it was hammed up in the media because they were brothers.
New challenge, sure, but means he is out of UK politics and has been for 5? years now, those who think he will slot back in and make everything amazing have probably not thought it through.

I'm certainly not suggesting that he should come back as some kind of saviour all I was indicating was that, at the time, if he had been chosen in preference to his brother, the history of the Labour Party and indeed British politics could have been very different today.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I'm certainly not suggesting that he should come back as some kind of saviour all I was indicating was that, at the time, if he had been chosen in preference to his brother, the history of the Labour Party and indeed British politics could have been very different today.

Yeah, it could have been really ****!

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Neither UK nor EU Parliaments want no deal. I think the only way it would come about is literally through May being so incompetent that she doesn't have the mechanism to prevent it.

Or, it might be exactly as I've been saying for at least 18 months that this is exactly like every single EU negotiation on any subject, ever, and it will be '5 minutes to midnight' before a sensible agreement is reached.

Remember:

1. The withdrawal agreement overall is fine. It includes compromises on all sides which are not ideal but can be lived with, apart from one part of the specific political mechanism in the backstop which is not evenly balanced and no French, German or other leader would accept for their country in a similar circumstance.
2. The principle of a backstop - a legal agreement to ensure nobody erects a hard border - everybody agrees we should have. It's just that having voted to leave the EU it would be an aberration to now sign up to giving back to the EU power to veto our leaving, on the eve of our leaving. The reason that is important to the EU, as I've said before, is nothing to do with Ireland but all about securing the upper hand in negotiations on the future relationship. This backstop - all cards with the EU. Normal legal text ruling out X and Y but not tying any part of the UK into remaining unless the EU permits us to leave - cards evenly dealt for the future relationship negotiations. Ireland is committed to 'no change' to the backstop because there is heat on at home politically regarding several scandals including around funding for the proposed National Childrens Hospital in Dublin, with Sinn Fein the main opposition. Sinn Fein called for the Health Minister to resign this week. Sinn Fein are of course also locked in a bitter power struggle with the DUP in Northern Ireland. So there is a Sinn Fein - DUP battle going on, on the one hand, and an EU negotiating team very happy to let that play out by 'showing solidarity to EU member Ireland' as it deals them a trump card.

As with the list of predictions I made at the end of last year - all of which have so far been right - I still say that nobody wants no deal; the threat of it is the only thing keeping the EU negotiating; a deal WILL be reached that allows all sides to save face (its really not that hard to do, it is just that the EU are not negotiating really at the moment - 'no, not unless you accept our existing position' is not negotiating' - and they WILL NOT NEGOTIATE PROPERLY UNTIL MID-MARCH AT THE EARLIEST).

The UK's job is to expose the above non-sensical position with a political framework, bounded in law, to agree how to handle the situation at the end of the transition period in a way that everyone can be confident there will be no hard border in Ireland. This must not involve the EU retaining control over the destiny of any part of the UK.