Budget 2014

[londonblue]

But for those plenty there are plenty that have failed miserably. At least doing what you do means you can sleep well at night.

I also know people who have borrowed more than they can afford and got away with it. Maybe they are cleverer or luckier than the average bloke.

The ones that frustrate me are the ones, and I've got some working here, who spend 45 quid a month on the latest mobile phone on a long contract, 8 quid a day on fags then complain they don't have any money and to be fair they never will have, but I've found through experience you can only offer what you see as sensible advise knowing they won't take it.

I thought you were a tory. Many businesses start up by borrowing money that they can't initially afford to repay. That's what entrepreneurs do, or have you given up on capitalism?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

It was a budget for the "haves" not the "have nots",(who of course aren't usually Tory voters by and large).

There was nothing there at all for young people.:thumbdown:

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

Of course they would - because old people in general are tory voters and even though state pensions are by far the largest contributor to our benefit state, touching them is impossible and instead they've pandered to them with significant pension/savings changes which could turn out to be a big issue in the future. From what I've read, no one seems to be sure of the future effect of these changes which seems very risky to me. In principle I'm not against giving people more flexibility when they retire. However I think it's dangerous because it continues to build a house price bubble and lets people more easily invest in buy to let and property. etc.

Also - removing inheritance tax for paramedics/police etc if they work in the public sector their whole life? I can't see that having any tangible benefit because I don't think any life long paramedic will end up with a £350k estate when they die. Seems like adding more layers of complexity.

The treasury figures suggest that the bottom 30% of our country will be worse off from these changes - in what way is that acceptable to anyone?

Maybe where you live they are but in many places the older person's use their vote as they always have and might not be susceptible to the "bribe" of this budget.

 

[steveo]

Not at all but they need to have a sensible plan and not some pie in the sky nonsense that is doomed to failure from the beginning. Ive seen people start a business and go straight out and buy themselves a big flash motor that they cant afford. Great, buy the motor when you can afford it.

Having said that I've taken on a mortgage before now where I knew the repayments were more than I could afford but figured hard work and sensible money management would turn it round.

 

[Pubey]

Maybe where you live they are but in many places the older person's use their vote as they always have and might not be susceptible to the "bribe" of this budget.

Definitely not where I live, but in general it's true. Older people vote more, and vote tory/right. However this trend is changing slowly

 

[londonblue]

Not at all but they need to have a sensible plan and not some pie in the sky nonsense that is doomed to failure from the beginning. Ive seen people start a business and go straight out and buy themselves a big flash motor that they cant afford. Great, buy the motor when you can afford it.

Having said that I've taken on a mortgage before now where I knew the repayments were more than I could afford but figured hard work and sensible money management would turn it round.

So it's one rule for you and one for everyone else.

 

[steveo]

So it's one rule for you and one for everyone else.

Nope. A bit of planning and being sensible is all that's required. Its people who don't have a plan that find it hard.

 

[Pubey]

Nope. A bit of planning and being sensible is all that's required. Its people who don't have a plan that find it hard.

But you said you overstretched yourself with repayments. No amount of planning and hardwork could turn that into a nightmare situation if something happened that was out of your control.

 

[steveo]

But you said you overstretched yourself with repayments. No amount of planning and hardwork could turn that into a nightmare situation if something happened that was out of your control.

Not much could have gone out of control and if it had I had plenty of people to fall back on.

 

[londonblue]

Nope. A bit of planning and being sensible is all that's required. Its people who don't have a plan that find it hard.

Really? So you think James Dyson, for example, got it right first time? (He was nearly bankrupt, and nearly lost his house.) People learn from their mistakes, but according to you they're not allowed to make any. In the mean time you admit that you put yourself in a risky position, but don't think other people should be able to do so.

So much for being a capitalist.

 

[steveo]

Really? So you think James Dyson, for example, got it right first time? (He was nearly bankrupt, and nearly lost his house.) People learn from their mistakes, but according to you they're not allowed to make any. In the mean time you admit that you put yourself in a risky position, but don't think other people should be able to do so.

So much for being a capitalist.

You are obviously intent on attacking me for some reason. Read the post properly. Dyson obviously didn't do so bad as to not be able to attract any future investors.
I put myself in a not all that risky position knowing that I had plenty of back up if anything went wrong. The people I was talking about often had nothing to fall back on.

If you stop trying to twist my words and actually read them you might be able to understand a bit better. If someone has a good business plan that has a good chance of succeeding then yes go for it if they can get the backing.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

A typical vote-winning tory budget which benefits the old and wealthy and squeezes the income of the bottom 30%. Easy to forget it's a tory/lib coalition.

I spent about 24 hours thinking the bingo and beer ad was a spoof...

Eh?

The personal allowance was raised so it increases the net income of the low paid.

Liberalising the pensions market will actually benefit the treasury as draw downs will be taxable as income.

Really? So you think James Dyson, for example, got it right first time? (He was nearly bankrupt, and nearly lost his house.) People learn from their mistakes, but according to you they're not allowed to make any. In the mean time you admit that you put yourself in a risky position, but don't think other people should be able to do so.

So much for being a capitalist.

A capitalist would surely differentiate between borrowing to invest and borrowing to fund a lifestyle beyond one's means.

 

[londonblue]

You are obviously intent on attacking me for some reason. Read the post properly. Dyson obviously didn't do so bad as to not be able to attract any future investors.
I put myself in a not all that risky position knowing that I had plenty of back up if anything went wrong. The people I was talking about often had nothing to fall back on.

If you stop trying to twist my words and actually read them you might be able to understand a bit better. If someone has a good business plan that has a good chance of succeeding then yes go for it if they can get the backing.

But not everyone has a good business plan first time around. Most entrepreneurs get it wrong more then they get it right. But they only have to get it right once, and that is usually the last time. However, you may well have failed (thankfully you didn't) and would then have had to rely on your back up. Lucky for you, you had one. Are you therefore saying that unless you have a back up then you shouldn't speculate to accumulate?

If that is the case, then you're not much of a Thatcherite are you? She was all for working class people starting up their own businesses, and most of the people that did, didn't have anything to fall back on.

Anyway, we're getting away from the original point, and that is that this budget was a waste of time and space. Even the IFS (Institute for Fiscal Studies) has come out against the pension change on the basis that it will put the cost of an annuity up for the people that still want to buy one, because they will become more expensive to run. They also said that people usually underestimate how long they will live, so taking an annuity is sensible because it will cover you up until you die, which could (these days) easily be 90-95. Most people expect to live to about 80-85. If they get that wrong, and have taken cash they could well be in trouble.

 

[Pubey]

Eh?

The personal allowance was raised so it increases the net income of the low paid.

When combined with the welfare changes the personal allowance increases is offset.

Pages 10 and 11:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...93738/budget_2014_distributional_analysis.pdf

 

[steveo]

I think if you go back far enough you can see the people I expressed concern about are not ones trying to start a business but ordinary working people who are spending more money than they earn and borrowing money they cant afford to pay back.
If I'm not much of a Thatcherite in your opinion so what? Does a person have to submit themselves 100% to one other persons view?

 

[londonblue]

I think if you go back far enough you can see the people I expressed concern about are not ones trying to start a business but ordinary working people who are spending more money than they earn and borrowing money they cant afford to pay back.
If I'm not much of a Thatcherite in your opinion so what? Does a person have to submit themselves 100% to one other persons view?

But based on other threads, you're not allowed to have different views of socialism because we all choose what suits us at the time. It seems you're no better when it comes to capitalism.

Anyway, this is brilliant, and pretty much sums the budget (and the tories) up.

BBC

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

I think if you go back far enough you can see the people I expressed concern about are not ones trying to start a business but ordinary working people who are spending more money than they earn and borrowing money they cant afford to pay back.
If I'm not much of a Thatcherite in your opinion so what? Does a person have to submit themselves 100% to one other persons view?

I'm afraid some on here are so one eyed and dance with two left feet so all they do is go round in circles.

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

But based on other threads, you're not allowed to have different views of socialism because we all choose what suits us at the time. It seems you're no better when it comes to capitalism.

Anyway, this is brilliant, and pretty much sums the budget (and the tories) up.

BBC

I know it's a thorn in the side of the left but this is a coalition government.
Danny Alexander is a Lib Dem MP who is very much left of centre.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

When combined with the welfare changes the personal allowance increases is offset.

Pages 10 and 11:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...93738/budget_2014_distributional_analysis.pdf

That's the cumulative effect - have you separate figures for those in employment as opposed to those merely claiming benefits?

 

[Cricko]

I'm afraid some on here are so one eyed and dance with two left feet so all they do is go round in circles.

I think the opinions on this thread are well balanced and both sides of the debate have their own views... well that was until you decided the Left have no real valid opinion.