Coaching kids..Fun or serious.

[mrsblue]

Been listening to this particular debate where a football coach has been sacked for wanting his youngsters to win!,Imo too many grassroots clubs sign youngsters who should be no where near a football pitch mainly because they have nil skill and the manager will be forced to give them pitch time which will have a dire effect on the team.

I am all for these youngsters to attend training sessions to build confidence and hopefully improve their skill level,When I played under 13 standard I witnessed so called kind managers who signed inadequate players who the manager then thrust into an actual game with the result being the other members of the team began Discussing at said poor player for making error after error which destroyed that player.

 

[chapperzUK]

Winning does not equal progress and development. Performance is more important than the result.

So kids shouldn't play football because they have no skill? How many kids have skill before they start playing? What a ridiculous statement to make.

 

[EastStandBlue]

Been listening to this particular debate where a football coach has been sacked for wanting his youngsters to win!,Imo too many grassroots clubs sign youngsters who should be no where near a football pitch mainly because they have nil skill and the manager will be forced to give them pitch time which will have a dire effect on the team.

I am all for these youngsters to attend training sessions to build confidence and hopefully improve their skill level,When I played under 13 standard I witnessed so called kind managers who signed inadequate players who the manager then thrust into an actual game with the result being the other members of the team began Discussing at said poor player for making error after error which destroyed that player.

Utter nonsense.

Football shouldn't (and soon won't) be competitive until the age of 12-14. Loading young players with the notion of competing against others has proven to be counterproductive to their development as footballers, which at young ages is what football should all be about. The U10s manager in the press at the moment was rightfully sacked and would've been slung out of any FA Charter Standard club. He's a self confessed rugby fan anyway.

I coach U7-U10s and manage an U9s side now, and the club I do that at would never dream of such bollocks. Sessions are built around technical ability and competition is largely stripped out. Kids are trained and played in various positions and as a result, progress into some very gifted young footballers. Coaching mixed abilities is admittedly difficult, but that's what separates a good coach from a poor one.

 

[mrsblue]

Utter nonsense.

Football shouldn't (and soon won't) be competitive until the age of 12-14. Loading young players with the notion of competing against others has proven to be counterproductive to their development as footballers, which at young ages is what football should all be about. The U10s manager in the press at the moment was rightfully sacked and would've been slung out of any FA Charter Standard club. He's a self confessed rugby fan anyway.

I coach U7-U10s and manage an U9s side now, and the club I do that at would never dream of such bollocks. Sessions are built around technical ability and competition is largely stripped out. Kids are trained and played in various positions and as a result, progress into some very gifted young footballers. Coaching mixed abilities is admittedly difficult, but that's what separates a good coach from a poor one.

The ages you refer too I am in complete agreement except the under 12s and higher,When I played for the under 13 we had a squad of 17 players of various ability ranging from 7 good players with 5 or 6 average ones with the rest unable to play the game.We all paid the same fees around £120 per season yet the manager chose to sign those with zero ability thus making a rod for his own back simply because the lesser players will want pitch time aided and abetted by their parents who believe their child is the greatest player of all time.Why should 12/13 players of reasonable ability be penalised for the managers stupidity because he signed the duffers,We were always bickering and bitching regarding the lesser girls yet it was not their fault and not ours as we just wanted to try and win every game.The lesser players should have just paid for the training sessions thus having no pressure put upon themselves.

 

[buffalowolf]

I coached kids over here in australia back in the late 70s and early 80s until i had a work accident resulting in me almost losing my foot.Coach from 8 year olds up for 2seasons before being put in charge of the under16s.There was and still is no leagues for 8s to under 14sas is the way in cricket here also,my aim was to make it fun for all the boys no matter there ability.Also to teach them skills,as they got older to teach them positional play and skills, I enjoyed good success with my lads in the younger groups. When i was put in charge of the under 16s ,they were placed in the highest division for teams here in Victoria playing against the youth sides for the State league , Sth Melbourne Hellas , Melbourne Croatia etc, which was to our club being a small club from the lower reaches of the leagues here a massive experience , its like SUFC youth team having to play week in week out against Arsenal , Chelsea , LIVERPOOL and man utd youth teams.Many of the lads went on to represent our senior side ,two of rhe lads went on to play for Austalia in the World youth Cup at under 17 level, im very proud of my time with them.Firstly make it fun for the lads no matter what ability they have secondly as they get older skills and team work, but always keeping the fun in it for them, never worry about results ,they will come.

 

[EastStandBlue]

The ages you refer too I am in complete agreement except the under 12s and higher,When I played for the under 13 we had a squad of 17 players of various ability ranging from 7 good players with 5 or 6 average ones with the rest unable to play the game.

Unless you're at a professional set-up, then that's exactly how it should be. Grassroots football should never differentiate on ability alone. We have one of the highest teenage drop-out rates in football in the world, and people wonder why we struggle to produce the same number of homegrown footballers than, for instance, Spain or Germany, that encourage development right the way through to the age of 20/21. Children develop talent and ability at vastly different rates and if children were bombed out after one poor season then we wouldn't get anywhere.

We all paid the same fees around £120 per season yet the manager chose to sign those with zero ability thus making a rod for his own back simply because the lesser players will want pitch time aided and abetted by their parents who believe their child is the greatest player of all time.

All players should get pitch time. How else are you expecting these players with "zero ability" to develop ability?

Why should 12/13 players of reasonable ability be penalised for the managers stupidity because he signed the duffers,We were always bickering and bitching regarding the lesser girls yet it was not their fault and not ours as we just wanted to try and win every game.The lesser players should have just paid for the training sessions thus having no pressure put upon themselves.

Sounds like it was you and other "good girls" that were the problematic ones to me.

 

[Uncle Leo]

Coaching mixed abilities is admittedly difficult, but that's what separates a good coach from a poor one.

Which brings Tony Adams to mind. Heard a journo talking on Five Live the other day about Donkey's time at Wycombe. Watching some defensive drills together, Adams noted how the players were nowhere near his high standards, but rather than try to fix the problem, just moaned about it. I believe he still sees himself as the natural successor to Wenger.

 

[EastStandBlue]

Which brings Tony Adams to mind. Heard a journo talking on Five Live the other day about Donkey's time at Wycombe. Watching some defensive drills together, Adams noted how the players were nowhere near his high standards, but rather than try to fix the problem, just moaned about it. I believe he still sees himself as the natural successor to Wenger.

Ultimately why Keane failed as a manager. He's supposed to be one of the most educated and revered coaches in the country, but he simply can't accept failure or any form of incompetence due to imprinting his own impeccable standards on lesser players. Rather than teach a player how to do something, ex-players like Keane and Adams think they should merely be fonts of tactical nous. It might go some way to explain why more of the top coaches in the country - Phelan, Meulensteen, Steve Kean, Steve Holland - aren't those that've reached playing heights and have instead completed the badges and gone on the right courses.

Also worth noting that the FA have fairly recently changed tact and allowed those with teaching qualifications to enter certain courses without having to start from the bottom rung.

It's odd because when a child's 7 or 8, you can generally tell which players will be the most natural footballers just by watching them run. You'll have children who have a natural gait and almost glide around, then you'll have kids who are only still going because they can't stop themselves. New FA coaching directives for U6-U9s state you shouldn't really be introducing a ball until you're confident you've improved their poise and balance, so a lot of coaching at early ages is fun, balance-based games like tag and bulldog.

 

[mrsblue]

ESB,

Coaches/managers with your thinking and beliefs are IMO player breakers,You people chuck them in way out of their depth and clearly not ready but you somehow justify it whilst blindly ignoring the kids who actually want to win the game,I have seen many youngsters ridiculed resulting in them actually quitting the game because they were not ready for he battle.

When your under 9s become under 11s you will either experience with your philosophy mass player exodus and confrontations with their parents.

Play your strongest team from the start and introduce the lesser players when the game is virtually won then everybody goes home content.

 

[chapperzUK]

ESB,

Coaches/managers with your thinking and beliefs are IMO player breakers,You people chuck them in way out of their depth and clearly not ready but you somehow justify it whilst blindly ignoring the kids who actually want to win the game,I have seen many youngsters ridiculed resulting in them actually quitting the game because they were not ready for he battle.

When your under 9s become under 11s you will either experience with your philosophy mass player exodus and confrontations with their parents.

Play your strongest team from the start and introduce the lesser players when the game is virtually won then everybody goes home content.

Sorry for the language, but that is bollocks.

When I was about 12-13 I joined a local team after about a year or so of not playing after my old team folded. I was one of the worst players when I joined because of not playing and spent my first season sitting on the bench and playing the last 5 minutes of most games. Do you think that was fun? How do you think my confidence was going to each game knowing I would be standing on the sidelines for at least 85 minutes. Even on one occasion I got onto the pitch and 5 seconds later (no joke) the whistle blew for full time.

At the end of that season I asked the coach why I wasn't playing much and he gave me an honest assessment. During that summer I played as much football as I could with friends or on my own and worked on fitness by riding my bike. When the new season came, I gave everything in training to try and start a match. My first start was actually in a position I had never played, but I won man of the match. From then on I started every game and improved dramatically from one of the worst players to be one of the better players. That season I won the Most Improved POTS and came close to winning POTS too.

Sadly the coach had to quit and someone else volunteered to take the team. They had no idea how to do training sessions, their idea was a jog around the pitch followed by a match. He would then sit in the club house the whole time having a drink before coming out with 5 minutes left to stop and say the team for the game on Sunday. No matter how I did in training I had no chance of starting as he would rather play his son in my position. This lead to me being unhappy and I quit the team.

The point is that kids want to play football rather than win. If kids aren't enjoying it, what is the point?

 

[EastStandBlue]

Coaches/managers with your thinking and beliefs are IMO player breakers

Player of mine left to join Charlton's academy last week, but thanks all the same.

You people chuck them in way out of their depth and clearly not ready but you somehow justify it whilst blindly ignoring the kids who actually want to win the game

Actually there's a Saturday Soccer Club purposefully run for children that aren't yet ready to join a team. Potential players spend a week or two with a team to see how they adapt and perform, before a conversation with both the player and the parent (and, usually, another coach) to see what they would prefer. If they're not ready, they're offered training sessions before another trial later on if they want to. A player for my U9s joined the club aged 7 and has been in the Saturday Club for nine or so months before progressing into a team.

Blindly ignoring? No. Research conducted by the FA found that, at that age, kids rarely care about winning games and participate in football either because they want to have fun or because their friends do so. If a kid shows a competitive edge then that's fine by me, I personally encourage that competitive edge by giving the more talented kids different progressions in training ("ok, now do it with you're left foot", or "that was good, but now try adding a skill in the dribble").

I have seen many youngsters ridiculed resulting in them actually quitting the game because they were not ready for he battle.

Again, it sounds like you've been playing at a club/clubs that have been doing things the wrong way.

When your under 9s become under 11s you will either experience with your philosophy mass player exodus and confrontations with their parents.

When my U9s become U11s it'll be 2015, and my "philosophy" will be commonplace as league tables will have been scrapped by then. The headline to that story's hugely prominent and indicative of the approach you seem to be condoning. Grassroots football isn't for dads who think they're the natural heir to Alex Ferguson's management throne, it's about facilitating the development of young footballers and teaching them the right values.

Play your strongest team from the start and introduce the lesser players when the game is virtually won then everybody goes home content.

Absolute bollocks. Children aren't stupid and know when they're being preferred or overlooked. That new directive from the FA encourages managers to experiment with new formations, tactics and positions so that players aren't typecast or pushed into roles too early on. It's precisely the right way to do things with players in the Foundation Phase (U8-U11) before introducing more serious principles during the Youth Development Phase (U12-U16).

 

[chapperzUK]

ESB, how far are you with your coaching badges?

 

[mrsblue]

ESB,

You are looking through your coaching eyes rather than the player eyes,When did you last play under 13 football?,The FA directives are frankly laughable and have little bearing to the game yet the bigwigs only want to appease everybody which in sport is morally bankrupt UNLESS every grassroots club offers every single child free football.When I took my level 1 it was embarrassing because as you know to pass it requires very little insight into the game you just need to show them you are capable of teaching mindless stupid drills from their manual.

 

[EastStandBlue]

ESB, how far are you with your coaching badges?

FA Level 1 with the FALLC Youth Award Module. Will be doing the second Youth Award Module and the Level 2 at some point this summer, availability pending.

 

[Jam_Man]

I didnt realise there was such a massive structure for girls football?

 

[EastStandBlue]

ESB,

You are looking through your coaching eyes rather than the player eyes,When did you last play under 13 football?,The FA directives are frankly laughable and have little bearing to the game yet the bigwigs only want to appease everybody which in sport is morally bankrupt UNLESS every grassroots club offers every single child free football.When I took my level 1 it was embarrassing because as you know to pass it requires very little insight into the game you just need to show them you are capable of teaching mindless stupid drills from their manual.

Eh? The FA directives are modeled on the much-lauded German and Spanish models. What's laughable about them? The fact they don't promote competitive nature until players are ready (which you've previously supported in this very thread), or the fact they don't allign themselves with your view that only the very best children are worthy of a coach's time? The day we start ostracising the less gifted players at Foundation Phase is the day we might as well just stop bothering altogether.

The Level 1 isn't about teaching you how to pass, it's about introducing parents and potential coaches to the basic principles of coaching. The "mindless, stupid drills from the manual" you get are purposefully basic and are not a patch on the 300+ drills in the Future Game set that outlines development of youngsters and the basics of the Four Corner model. But, then again, the first 20 or 30 pages of the book outline the FA's new philosophy, so I doubt you'd make it to the drills before chucking it.

The Level One is purposefully easy (pass rate about 98%, last time I checked) because it's an introductory course. If you're confident you could do a better job, then get licensed and get on the Youth Awards and Level 2 onwards.

 

[chapperzUK]

FA Level 1 with the FALLC Youth Award Module. Will be doing the second Youth Award Module and the Level 2 at some point this summer, availability pending.

Nice, I've been looking at doing the Youth Modules before going onto Level 2. Just had a quick look at the Essex FA website and the schedule they've set out for the Level 2 courses mean I can't do any of them.

 

[mrsblue]

Eh? The FA directives are modeled on the much-lauded German and Spanish models. What's laughable about them? The fact they don't promote competitive nature until players are ready (which you've previously supported in this very thread), or the fact they don't allign themselves with your view that only the very best children are worthy of a coach's time? The day we start ostracising the less gifted players at Foundation Phase is the day we might as well just stop bothering altogether.

The Level 1 isn't about teaching you how to pass, it's about introducing parents and potential coaches to the basic principles of coaching. The "mindless, stupid drills from the manual" you get are purposefully basic and are not a patch on the 300+ drills in the Future Game set that outlines development of youngsters and the basics of the Four Corner model. But, then again, the first 20 or 30 pages of the book outline the FA's new philosophy, so I doubt you'd make it to the drills before chucking it.

The Level One is purposefully easy (pass rate about 98%, last time I checked) because it's an introductory course. If you're confident you could do a better job, then get licensed and get on the Youth Awards and Level 2 onwards.

Regarding the level 1,
I have seen people who have zero knowledge and even less talent gain their badge which entitles them to coach!,How can anyone coach if they barely know the rules and cannot trap a bang of sand?,Bit like a maths teacher who cannot add up it just don't work.

I had the misfortune to be coached by a EUFA b bloke,This chap spent more time explaining his drill where after every explanation somebody always said "I don't understand " whereupon he would then explain it all over again!,He was tedious and boring which the majority of that team agreed with,IMO a good coach is the one who will offer encouragement at all times whilst making the session fun,The average player are not interested in a mountain of cones with instructions that can only be deciphered by code.

I believe every single child has the right to play the game if/when they are ready and not on the whim of others as in that situation everyone will lose,Would love to see free coaching schools for under 10s regardless of talent thus allowing those ready and able to play an actual game whilst the lesser ones can still practise without any pressure on their shoulders.

 

[EastStandBlue]

Nice, I've been looking at doing the Youth Modules before going onto Level 2. Just had a quick look at the Essex FA website and the schedule they've set out for the Level 2 courses mean I can't do any of them.

I'll be taking a week off work to do mine. Fortunately I live close enough to the Soccerdome in Greenwich and they do the Youth Award badges quite regularly. If you get licenced the CPD events are well worth it too, went to one a couple of weeks ago by a coach at QPR and it was excellent.

 

[EastStandBlue]

Regarding the level 1,
I have seen people who have zero knowledge and even less talent gain their badge which entitles them to coach!,How can anyone coach if they barely know the rules and cannot trap a bang of sand?,Bit like a maths teacher who cannot add up it just don't work.

Why should you have to be a decent footballer to be a decent coach? If you can educate effectively and explain why it's best to do something a certain way, surely that's preferable than being a decent footballer who can't reason with another person? This is precisely the point Uncle Leo was making about Tony Adams, being a good footballer doesn't give you any right to be a good coach, and plenty of professionals have fallen into that trap. Each and every professional footballer is given the chance to do their badges, yet hardly any of the top clubs use ex-professionals as coaches. There's a reason for that.

I had the misfortune to be coached by a EUFA b bloke,This chap spent more time explaining his drill where after every explanation somebody always said "I don't understand " whereupon he would then explain it all over again!,He was tedious and boring which the majority of that team agreed with,IMO a good coach is the one who will offer encouragement at all times whilst making the session fun,The average player are not interested in a mountain of cones with instructions that can only be deciphered by code.

Thanks for backing up my above point. The differences between what makes a good coach and what makes a good footballer are endless.

I believe every single child has the right to play the game if/when they are ready and not on the whim of others as in that situation everyone will lose,Would love to see free coaching schools for under 10s regardless of talent thus allowing those ready and able to play an actual game whilst the lesser ones can still practise without any pressure on their shoulders.

Pressure doesn't come from the game nor other players. It comes from overbearing managers and sometimes parents, and that's what the new FA directives are seeking to enforce. I'll never discipline a player for giving the ball away if he tries a flick or a pass that doesn't come off, and there's a zero-tolerance policy on parent interference of any kind during games. The sooner more clubs enforce similar policies and U8-U11 football is a friendlier place, more kids will feel encouraged enough to participate.