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Coronavirus (Non-Politics)

LägerBomb

Coach
Joined
Jul 3, 2012
Messages
796
Location
Brighton via L-o-S
I'm not an anti-vaxer - but how comfortable can we be that any Covid vaccine will be safe with no short or long term side effects?
Stage 3 trials require mass volunteering efforts to try and establish any outlying side effects to make sure it's suitable for use across the general population. These things all have a process and that is being adhered to now. The anti-vaxxer movement is growing (which is a whole other discussion about failing human behaviour beyond animal welfare standards, wet markets and eat bats) so they can't really afford to get this wrong.
 

Pubey

Frequent flyer in all buzzing chatrooms
Joined
Jan 3, 2018
Messages
31,327
Stage 3 trials require mass volunteering efforts to try and establish any outlying side effects to make sure it's suitable for use across the general population. These things all have a process and that is being adhered to now. The anti-vaxxer movement is growing (which is a whole other discussion about failing human behaviour beyond animal welfare standards, wet markets and eat bats) so they can't really afford to get this wrong.
Both Phase 2 and Phase 3 are designed to evaluate the safety of a new vaccine. Because you're testing in generally healthy individuals without the infectious disease of interest then you require very large studies to have confidence in identifying rare but serious side-effects. The good thing for vaccines is that they generally work in one of two different ways and both ways have been demonstrated to be very safe, so that builds a degree of confidence.

Safety will also be evaluated in post-launch Phase 4 where they're monitored.

I do have a concern about long term efficacy, rather than long-term safety. Will have to see how the regulators respond to this. I have a general concern about if a successful vaccine will be identified. I wonder if rather than mass vaccination we might end up in a situation where they can only provide relatively short-term immunity, and it might not stop transmission, so would be useful for key worker protection but not really a way to achieve mass herd immunity. This isn't based on any inside information, but just a general worry.
 

GNH

Fish House Ultras
Joined
Oct 26, 2003
Messages
2,507
Location
Rayleigh
Managed to snap a tooth which is great timing.

Booked in an emergency appointment for this Friday which is hte earliest available but I have been instructed that masks for patients are compulsory or I won't be allowed in.

Now, I'm no dental surgeon but I think wearing a mask may hinder his ability to carry out the necessary work so again I can see the constant wearing/removing of said mask being more of a risk than not having one to start with.

Maybe he's a magician and can work around it? 😷
 

Rootshallbloke

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
19,102
Location
Westcliff riviera
Managed to snap a tooth which is great timing.

Booked in an emergency appointment for this Friday which is hte earliest available but I have been instructed that masks for patients are compulsory or I won't be allowed in.

Now, I'm no dental surgeon but I think wearing a mask may hinder his ability to carry out the necessary work so again I can see the constant wearing/removing of said mask being more of a risk than not having one to start with.

Maybe he's a magician and can work around it? 😷
I think you'll find that's just to enter the surgery to protect the receptionists. When you see the dentist he/she and the dental nurse will be wearing the world's supply of PPE so you don't have to. You'll probably get your temperature taken when you go in though.
 

THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK

Life President
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Messages
11,206
Location
SHOEBURY
Managed to snap a tooth which is great timing.

Booked in an emergency appointment for this Friday which is hte earliest available but I have been instructed that masks for patients are compulsory or I won't be allowed in.

Now, I'm no dental surgeon but I think wearing a mask may hinder his ability to carry out the necessary work so again I can see the constant wearing/removing of said mask being more of a risk than not having one to start with.

Maybe he's a magician and can work around it? 😷
You just leave the mask on, and they drill through the mask. Plus, if they strike oil during the drilling, the mask will help soak it up.
 
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GNH

Fish House Ultras
Joined
Oct 26, 2003
Messages
2,507
Location
Rayleigh
I think you'll find that's just to enter the surgery to protect the receptionists. When you see the dentist he/she and the dental nurse will be wearing the world's supply of PPE so you don't have to. You'll probably get your temperature taken when you go in though.
Already been told that i will have to have what amounts to a small scale medical before being allowed in. Oh, and i also have to take my own pen with me :ROFL:

Fully expect him to and his assistant to be wearing full Hazmat suits!

The best bit though is they only take cash and refuse card payments so after all that i'll be given a load of change that's been exchanged between countless people. You couldn't make it up
 

THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK

Life President
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Messages
11,206
Location
SHOEBURY
Just heard some heartbreaking stories from nurses and paramedics on the radio, of what they went through, the risks they took when the PPE was bad, and the life or death decisions they were forced to make by their managers. Truly shocking. Some are now in therapy. Like everyone on the planet, I can't wait for this virus to be gone.
 

Rootshallbloke

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
19,102
Location
Westcliff riviera
Already been told that i will have to have what amounts to a small scale medical before being allowed in. Oh, and i also have to take my own pen with me :ROFL:

Fully expect him to and his assistant to be wearing full Hazmat suits!

The best bit though is they only take cash and refuse card payments so after all that i'll be given a load of change that's been exchanged between countless people. You couldn't make it up
When my wife went to her dentist 2 weeks ago she had root canal treatment and the dentist and nurse had masks face screens and hoods with portable oxygen packs on their backs. You couldn't make it up.
 

Ricey

Scott Forbes No.1 Fan
Joined
Dec 21, 2003
Messages
30,650
Location
Braintree
14 days quarantine if returning from Spain, Canary or Balearic Islands.

This is another huge blow for the travel and tourism industry.
 

rigsby

Life President
Joined
Oct 12, 2014
Messages
12,191
Just heard some heartbreaking stories from nurses and paramedics on the radio, of what they went through, the risks they took when the PPE was bad, and the life or death decisions they were forced to make by their managers. Truly shocking. Some are now in therapy. Like everyone on the planet, I can't wait for this virus to be gone.
Can you expand on this bit, thanks.

I did read an article by the family of a (non) victim of Covid in the early days. She had an ongoing issue, wasn't that old but was denied a ventilator because they expected more 'deserving' cases.....They never arrived and she could have been saved.

Around the same time some former work colleagues of mine, rescued a woman from a fire in Mile End. She was mid 50's and had just come out of hospital after suffering from pneumonia. A dispute broke out between Paramedics and a HEMS doctor as he did not want to block a ventilator. The paramedics wanted to take her but the Doctor said not to transport her to hospital and wanted to her 'comfortable' until she died......Unheard of by all concerned. The London hospital is just over 1 mile away with a straight run down the A11.

The paramedics won and were allowed to take her. She did die later but most think she was not given the treatment she deserved and was a victim of what might happen rather than what did happen.
 
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Tinks

X Factor Winner 1943 and PHB
Joined
Nov 17, 2006
Messages
4,776
Location
Eastwood
Can you expand on this bit, thanks.

I did read an article by the family of a (non) victim of Covid in the early days. She had an ongoing issue, wasn't that old but was denied a ventilator because they expected more 'deserving' cases.....They never arrived and she could have been saved.

Around the same time some former work colleagues of mine, rescued a woman from a fire in Mile End. She was mid 50's and had just come out of hospital after suffering from pneumonia. A dispute broke out between Paramedics and a HEMS doctor as he did not want to block a ventilator. The paramedics wanted to take her but the Doctor said not to transport her to hospital and wanted to her 'comfortable' until she died......Unheard of by all concerned. The London hospital is just over 1 mile away with a straight run down the A11.

The paramedics won and were allowed to take her. She did die later but most think she was not given the treatment she deserved and was a victim of what might happen rather than what did happen.
That’s is so sad.
We did send some people to hospital and they were given treatment.
Some returned home some didn’t
 

THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK

Life President
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Messages
11,206
Location
SHOEBURY
Can you expand on this bit, thanks.

I did read an article by the family of a (non) victim of Covid in the early days. She had an ongoing issue, wasn't that old but was denied a ventilator because they expected more 'deserving' cases.....They never arrived and she could have been saved.

Around the same time some former work colleagues of mine, rescued a woman from a fire in Mile End. She was mid 50's and had just come out of hospital after suffering from pneumonia. A dispute broke out between Paramedics and a HEMS doctor as he did not want to block a ventilator. The paramedics wanted to take her but the Doctor said not to transport her to hospital and wanted to her 'comfortable' until she died......Unheard of by all concerned. The London hospital is just over 1 mile away with a straight run down the A11.

The paramedics won and were allowed to take her. She did die later but most think she was not given the treatment she deserved and was a victim of what might happen rather than what did happen.
Yes, sure. It was a paramedic who said they had some sort of severity of illness score, I think 1-7 was mentioned. The managers told them in no uncertain terms to change the number at which a patient would be taken to hospital, so as to not take up all the beds in hospital. She said she is traumatised and under taking therapy. She said there were many elderly that were left at home and she knew they would die, that should have gone to hospital.
 

rigsby

Life President
Joined
Oct 12, 2014
Messages
12,191
Yes, sure. It was a paramedic who said they had some sort of severity of illness score, I think 1-7 was mentioned. The managers told them in no uncertain terms to change the number at which a patient would be taken to hospital, so as to not take up all the beds in hospital. She said she is traumatised and under taking therapy. She said there were many elderly that were left at home and she knew they would die, that should have gone to hospital.
Further prove that just comparing death rates from one year to another will not give a true figure of Covid deaths.

A good friend of mine went down the hospital with his family and removed their terminally ill dad as they knew he did not have Covid. Which had been diagnosed over the phone when his partner had called an ambulance when he deteriorated. He died 4 days later but surrounded by family rather than left in a corner on his own.
 

Rootshallbloke

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
19,102
Location
Westcliff riviera
BBC Breakfast interviewed a GP this morning who flew back from Spain with his family the day after they landed. The aim was not to get caught up with the 14 day quarantine. It cost him a packet to fly home only to discover that, as a key medical worker, he was exempt from the quarantine rule. Bummer!
 

Pubey

Frequent flyer in all buzzing chatrooms
Joined
Jan 3, 2018
Messages
31,327
Further prove that just comparing death rates from one year to another will not give a true figure of Covid deaths.

A good friend of mine went down the hospital with his family and removed their terminally ill dad as they knew he did not have Covid. Which had been diagnosed over the phone when his partner had called an ambulance when he deteriorated. He died 4 days later but surrounded by family rather than left in a corner on his own.
No one is doing this. Comparing death rates is to understand the total excess mortality.
 
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