Ref Watch ......... Dagenham H part 2

[flapjack]

The Ref was born in Dog****ham.......nuff said

 

[Magnum PI]

I can only apologise for labelling Andy Woolmer an incompetent buffoon. It leaves me little leeway in trying to sum up the true words to describe this group of officials. No doubt our refereeing experts will come on here now and justify why every one of his decisions was fine.

To be fair I wasnt best placed to see the red card but I did see the Daggers players milking the situation. The real problem with the referee tonight was inconsistency. I accept everyone makes mistakes but no excuse for tonight.

I was pleased though that Browny didnt pay the idiot too much attention. Like me, he took lots of positives from the game (mainly the second half) when we were excellent.

 

[EastStandBlue]

Notice the ref is from NEWPORT and who have we next NEWPORT and missing our center half

My favourite post on here for some time.

 

[Fish]

I agree that the ref last night was inconsistent. In summary, I had no problem with any of the cards he showed us, but I did have a problem with the cards he didn't show Daggers. THey should have had one for the foul on Atkinson (?) in teh North West corner early on, certainly one for diving in the area and I gave up counting how many he should have shown for time wasting but I started counting in the first half and it didn't happen til the 88th minute.

But...

White deserved his yellow, it was a cynical breakdown of play when Daggers were in a good attacking position. Personally, I thought the shove in the first 2 minutes was well overboard, it was dangerous and should have been yellow carded for that. He shoved Hines into the advertising hoardings - remember a Yeovil defender did that to Bennett early in the season on his debut, we lost the guy for the rest of his loan period? We were seething about that and demanding a red if you recall.

The red card, I didn't have a problem with. The ref made a rod for his own back by getting his yellow out first. But all this rubbish about "he shouldn't allow the linesman to change his mind" is absolute bollocks. Linesmen are not "subservient" to referees, they are all part of the same team whose job it is to arrive at the right decision, which they did. The ref nearly rushed his decision, then realised that although the lino was further away from the incident, he may have had a better angle to view it from, and quite sensibly consulted with him. Whether Phillips "got the ball" was irrelevant, the tackle was over the top and dangerous. Apparently he said he lost his footing and slipped as he went into the tackle. Well that's proof that it was a reckless, out of control tackle that he shouldn't have attempted, because he went in with too much force to control it and could easily have broken the guy's leg.

Unfortunately, the ref will get lambasted for last night. He did make some odd calls, but they actually cut both ways. We were lucky we didn't end up with 3 reds frankly - White should have gone for what he got his first yellow for, as he should already have been on a yellow from that shove, and it certainly looked like Barry Corr headbutted their defender on the half way line just before he came off. He was lucky he didn't make much contact.

 

[ldnfatso]

Notice the ref is from NEWPORT and who have we next NEWPORT and missing our center half

Alan Whicker has no job security issues with you about has he?

 

[Murkey_Mouse]

The best referee performance I ever seen is on Fifa 14, enough said!

 

[shallowshrimper]

Move over Mr Ward, move over Mr Kettle. Your place in the Roots Hall hall of infamy has been taken over by a Mr J Linington. May he never darken our doors again.

 

[united we stand]

I agree that the ref last night was inconsistent. In summary, I had no problem with any of the cards he showed us, but I did have a problem with the cards he didn't show Daggers. THey should have had one for the foul on Atkinson (?) in teh North West corner early on, certainly one for diving in the area and I gave up counting how many he should have shown for time wasting but I started counting in the first half and it didn't happen til the 88th minute.

But...

White deserved his yellow, it was a cynical breakdown of play when Daggers were in a good attacking position. Personally, I thought the shove in the first 2 minutes was well overboard, it was dangerous and should have been yellow carded for that. He shoved Hines into the advertising hoardings - remember a Yeovil defender did that to Bennett early in the season on his debut, we lost the guy for the rest of his loan period? We were seething about that and demanding a red if you recall.

The red card, I didn't have a problem with. The ref made a rod for his own back by getting his yellow out first. But all this rubbish about "he shouldn't allow the linesman to change his mind" is absolute bollocks. Linesmen are not "subservient" to referees, they are all part of the same team whose job it is to arrive at the right decision, which they did. The ref nearly rushed his decision, then realised that although the lino was further away from the incident, he may have had a better angle to view it from, and quite sensibly consulted with him. Whether Phillips "got the ball" was irrelevant, the tackle was over the top and dangerous. Apparently he said he lost his footing and slipped as he went into the tackle. Well that's proof that it was a reckless, out of control tackle that he shouldn't have attempted, because he went in with too much force to control it and could easily have broken the guy's leg.

Unfortunately, the ref will get lambasted for last night. He did make some odd calls, but they actually cut both ways. We were lucky we didn't end up with 3 reds frankly - White should have gone for what he got his first yellow for, as he should already have been on a yellow from that shove, and it certainly looked like Barry Corr headbutted their defender on the half way line just before he came off. He was lucky he didn't make much contact.

great post- far more balanced that a lot of stuff on here that just comes through as typical football fans blaming the ref or a defeat

 

[londonblue]

I agree that the ref last night was inconsistent. In summary, I had no problem with any of the cards he showed us, but I did have a problem with the cards he didn't show Daggers. THey should have had one for the foul on Atkinson (?) in teh North West corner early on, certainly one for diving in the area and I gave up counting how many he should have shown for time wasting but I started counting in the first half and it didn't happen til the 88th minute.

But...

White deserved his yellow, it was a cynical breakdown of play when Daggers were in a good attacking position. Personally, I thought the shove in the first 2 minutes was well overboard, it was dangerous and should have been yellow carded for that. He shoved Hines into the advertising hoardings - remember a Yeovil defender did that to Bennett early in the season on his debut, we lost the guy for the rest of his loan period? We were seething about that and demanding a red if you recall.

The red card, I didn't have a problem with. The ref made a rod for his own back by getting his yellow out first. But all this rubbish about "he shouldn't allow the linesman to change his mind" is absolute bollocks. Linesmen are not "subservient" to referees, they are all part of the same team whose job it is to arrive at the right decision, which they did. The ref nearly rushed his decision, then realised that although the lino was further away from the incident, he may have had a better angle to view it from, and quite sensibly consulted with him. Whether Phillips "got the ball" was irrelevant, the tackle was over the top and dangerous. Apparently he said he lost his footing and slipped as he went into the tackle. Well that's proof that it was a reckless, out of control tackle that he shouldn't have attempted, because he went in with too much force to control it and could easily have broken the guy's leg.

Unfortunately, the ref will get lambasted for last night. He did make some odd calls, but they actually cut both ways. We were lucky we didn't end up with 3 reds frankly - White should have gone for what he got his first yellow for, as he should already have been on a yellow from that shove, and it certainly looked like Barry Corr headbutted their defender on the half way line just before he came off. He was lucky he didn't make much contact.

Very fair post, although, re the penalty incident, from where I sat it looked like perfectly clean challenge. I couldn't actually believe the ref gave a foul, let alone a card. (I'm not saying it was a clean challenge, just that it looked like one from where I sat.)

My issues were really with the inconsistency, and the off-the-ball stuff that the officials missed. Had they have kept their eyes open they may have been justified in giving us two, maybe three penalties.

However, we have another game on Saturday. We have to ensure we don't feel sorry for ourselves, and take the positives with us to Newport. The real positives for me were the 2nd half performance. We were so good it scares me what we could have done with 11 men on the pitch. We were so good, D&R were doing anything they could to time waste and break up play.

 

[Shrimpergonzo]

I had a pretty good view and Phillips won the ball, and then his foot rolled over the top and caught the guy. He didn't jump into the tackle and it was a yellow at worst. Can't understand why the ref went to see the lino as he was only about 10 yards away himself.

I had a good view too and that's exactly how I saw it, foot was high on the ball and momentum/lost footing on his other leg carried him through with his foot rolling across the top of the ball.

Compare this to the second Gareth Barry challenge on Saturday (which only got a yellow) which was nowhere near the ball and straight into the shin!

 

[Somerset Ex-TTB]

Personally, I thought the shove in the first 2 minutes was well overboard, it was dangerous and should have been yellow carded for that.

Complete and utter tosh. This was right in front of me, and White was stronger than Hines, and got his body in between Hines and the ball (good defending), then Hines went to try and tackle him from the side and his momentum took him off the pitch. He was not shoved at all, totally unlike the Bennett one.

 

[ooh-andy-ansah]

Of course the players and the manager could have realised they weren't going to get anything from this ref and altered the style of play rather than keep plugging away with the same tactics :whistling:

 

[MilkeySUFC]

I agree that the ref last night was inconsistent. In summary, I had no problem with any of the cards he showed us, but I did have a problem with the cards he didn't show Daggers. THey should have had one for the foul on Atkinson (?) in teh North West corner early on, certainly one for diving in the area and I gave up counting how many he should have shown for time wasting but I started counting in the first half and it didn't happen til the 88th minute.

But...

White deserved his yellow, it was a cynical breakdown of play when Daggers were in a good attacking position. Personally, I thought the shove in the first 2 minutes was well overboard, it was dangerous and should have been yellow carded for that. He shoved Hines into the advertising hoardings - remember a Yeovil defender did that to Bennett early in the season on his debut, we lost the guy for the rest of his loan period? We were seething about that and demanding a red if you recall.

The red card, I didn't have a problem with. The ref made a rod for his own back by getting his yellow out first. But all this rubbish about "he shouldn't allow the linesman to change his mind" is absolute bollocks. Linesmen are not "subservient" to referees, they are all part of the same team whose job it is to arrive at the right decision, which they did. The ref nearly rushed his decision, then realised that although the lino was further away from the incident, he may have had a better angle to view it from, and quite sensibly consulted with him. Whether Phillips "got the ball" was irrelevant, the tackle was over the top and dangerous. Apparently he said he lost his footing and slipped as he went into the tackle. Well that's proof that it was a reckless, out of control tackle that he shouldn't have attempted, because he went in with too much force to control it and could easily have broken the guy's leg.

Unfortunately, the ref will get lambasted for last night. He did make some odd calls, but they actually cut both ways. We were lucky we didn't end up with 3 reds frankly - White should have gone for what he got his first yellow for, as he should already have been on a yellow from that shove, and it certainly looked like Barry Corr headbutted their defender on the half way line just before he came off. He was lucky he didn't make much contact.

THe lino didn't flag until AFTER the ref had blown his whistle; so what did he see as a red card foul if he wasn't going to flag for the offence in the first place?

 

[ace]

Its not only the big decisions, this ref was in our faces from the first minute he gave Corr a talking to. Just how he made 4 mins extra after 6 subs, the physio on and time wasting was also strange.

 

[Lord Football]

Usual quality read when it comes to refs.

I thought the ref was poor, but not for the reasons many of you do. It was a sending off (for those who think it wasn't, consider your reaction if that had been a Daggers defender and our forward), it was a goal and he got the cards right. I've said before about judging a referee on whether he was tested. This one last night was tested, and he didn't in my opinion handle that test. He was inconsistent both with his decision making, his man management and how he applied (or didn't) advantage. Its unfortunate but rather than gritting his teeth and stepping up, he seemed to wilt.

I don't think he favoured them, I do think they played him better. They hit the deck, squealed and acted - he brought it. Credit to our lads, we didn't. Obviously he made a couple of errors, they all do. Personally, I don't think he was helped by the West side assistant who seemed at times to want to be the referee. The guy on the East was actually rather good (despite the complaints from the cretin who seems to think you need to put your flag up immediately, rather than wait).

I am sure he missed an elbow by Woodrow in the first 5 seconds, he gave a free kick but nothing else. I am also sure he missed a penalty to them judging a foul outside the box when it didn't look to be.

It wasn't a good performance, but not the worse I've seen this season. That remains the performance by whoever middled our game at Wycombe.

 

[londonblue]

Usual quality read when it comes to refs.

I thought the ref was poor, but not for the reasons many of you do. It was a sending off (for those who think it wasn't, consider your reaction if that had been a Daggers defender and our forward), it was a goal and he got the cards right. I've said before about judging a referee on whether he was tested. This one last night was tested, and he didn't in my opinion handle that test. He was inconsistent both with his decision making, his man management and how he applied (or didn't) advantage. Its unfortunate but rather than gritting his teeth and stepping up, he seemed to wilt.

I don't think he favoured them, I do think they played him better. They hit the deck, squealed and acted - he brought it. Credit to our lads, we didn't. Obviously he made a couple of errors, they all do. Personally, I don't think he was helped by the West side assistant who seemed at times to want to be the referee. The guy on the East was actually rather good (despite the complaints from the cretin who seems to think you need to put your flag up immediately, rather than wait).

I am sure he missed an elbow by Woodrow in the first 5 seconds, he gave a free kick but nothing else. I am also sure he missed a penalty to them judging a foul outside the box when it didn't look to be.

It wasn't a good performance, but not the worse I've seen this season. That remains the performance by whoever middled our game at Wycombe.

That was something forgot to mention. How could it be to our advantage to continue when we had the ball in our own third, had a 2 on 2 situation, and were a player light?

 

[Mick]

It wasn't a good performance, but not the worse I've seen this season. That remains the performance by whoever middled our game at Wycombe.

Second worst only to Sheldrake is not the greatest of accolades.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Didn't go to Wycombe, but this ref was abysmal. I feared the worst after 20 minutes when of the three free-kicks we'd been awarded two actually penalised us by calling us back rather than letting us play on. When he did eventually give us an advantage it was when we were on the edge of our own penalty area with no options and then failed to book the Dagenham player for the cynical challenge!

The red card was never a red card. It's supposed to be a contact sport and those who make tackling illegal are ruining it. There was nothing malicious in that challenge and I don't believe those sorts of challenges are anywhere as dangerous as people are making out: the limping basically stopped as soon as the red card was produced - he certainly wasn't limping when he scored 5 minutes later. A yellow card is a proportionate punishment and if Dagenham players hadn't made such a fuss (which we did to get their guy sent off in the JPT) with the rolling around and surrounding the ref it might not have even been a booking.

The ref didn't have a grip (unlike Dagenham players at corners) on the match and missed a lot of niggly challenges/shoves by our players that were deliberately late and which a competent ref would have taken them to one side and told them to calm down. Those challenges were out of frustration at the ref as he missed plenty.

 

[Romford Shrimper]

For the second time in a few days we entertain a team we have never lost to in the League.

Man in charge tomorrow is James Linington from Newport on the Isle of Wight. He is a highly rated referee in his sixth year having previously been a Select Group Assistant Referee and is being touted as a possibility to make it right to the top.

He has always looked pretty decent or better when I have seen him referee (which includes the Dagenham play-off final at Wembley) and will allow the game to flow if given the opportunity.

He has refereed Southend just three times before. Firstly the 3-0 home win against Carlisle in 2008/9 and then the following season's 1-1 draw at Wycombe. For Southend he only cautioned Grant and Macca respectively in those two matches. Then more recently, last March, he was in charge of our wretched performance when we lost 2-0 at home to Plymouth.

His card count is a little high for him this season with 35 yellows and 3 reds (all away players) from 10 games, including a number of Championship appointments.

He will be assisted by Paul Kelly from Gillingham and David Rock, a qualified coach in quite a number of different sports, from Hertford. Constantine Hatzidakis, from Bromley, the shaven headed lino who did us no favours at Wycombe this season, will be the 4th Official.

Are you sure?

 

[flapjack]

if Southend are convinced it wasn't a red, then appeal and send in the evidence and take the chance otherwise get on with it and get ready for the next game as we have to make a few changes now.