England Euro 96 vs World Cup 2010

[* ORM *]

Not that I've watched more than about 2 hours of English footie since Sven took charge but the Gazza thread got me looking around a bit

Line up vs Scotland Euro 96

1 David Seaman
2 Gary Neville
3 Stuart Pearce
4 Paul Ince
5 Tony Adams
6 Gareth Southgate
8 Paul Gascoigne
9 Alan Shearer
10 Teddy Sheringham
11 Darren Anderton
17 Steve McManaman

Line up vs Slovenia WC 2010

GK 1 David James
RB 2 Glen Johnson
CB 15 Matthew Upson
CB 6 John Terry
LB 3 Ashley Cole
RM 4 Steven Gerrard (c)
CM 8 Frank Lampard
CM 14 Gareth Barry
LM 16 James Milner
SS 19 Jermain Defoe
CF 10 Wayne Rooney

Three players at most fit to even think about lacing the boots of the 1996 starting line up.

Rooney possibly replacing Sheringham, though lets see if Wayne's still doing the business in a few years time. Gerrard in for Anderton and possibly Lampard for McManaman. I can't see anywhere else, except possibly with Glen Johnson having age on his side.

Ince, Adams, Pearce. Only Gerrard from what I've seen of the current crop comes anywhere close to sending fear down the spine of the opposition. The 96 team must have looked at WC10 wondering how in the hell has English football sunk to such depths.

 

[JoshC]

Would agree with that but with Cole left for a bit of pace.... Out of interest did you not watch England under Steve Maclaren?

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

It just goes to show that '96 team was nothing to write home about.

I was never overly keen on Seaman and felt he was the first step down after a long line of great England keepers.
Gary Neville was still around in 2010 and was overlooked
Pearce must be the most over-rated England player ever. He was a clogger. He use to kick people and hoof it down the line. Nowhere near the class of Ashley Cole. People need to stop comparing them as people and compare them as footballers. Actually don't bother because Pearce doesn't even compare to Cole, Cole is that much better than him.
Ince wasn't as good as he thought he was. At his peak he was a decent enough player at international level, but no more.
Adams - donkey Adams as he was known then, now nostalgised about. But then we did have Upson at centre-half, so he'd have made my combined team easily.
Southgate again over-rated. Why does missing a penalty make players so popular?
Gazza - loved him, but he wasn't the player he was in '90, despite that goal against the Jocks
Shearer - class
Sheringham - actually I take back what I said about Pearce being the most over-rated. I couldn't stand Sheringham.
McManaman - the natural successor to Barnes and predecessor for Gerrard (take back what I said about Sheringham....), in that he rarely did for England what he did for Liverpool but actually had a decent-ish tournament.
Anderton - a decent player, when fit. Which was rarely.


'96 produced maybe one good performance - against Hollland. The opening game was a nervy affair against the Swiss, a lesser team than the US, who we drew 1-1 with. Against Scotland, a lesser team than Slovakia (or Slovenia, whoever we played against) we needed the ball moving on the spot (er cheers Uri) to stop us being pegged back to 1-1. Obviously against Holland was fantastic. Against Spain we should have been eliminated with a goal that was wrongly ruled out for off-side and they hit the woodwork, we then scraped through on penalties. We then played quite well against the Germans but lost.

Shearer, Rooney, Ashley Cole were the only three genuinely world class players in those two combined squads (although Gazza had his moments).

Had Ferdinand, Woodgate*, Hargreaves and Beckham been fit, they'd have all made my combined XI (albeit only for 60 minutes in Beck's case).

*Remember Anderton was fit for '96 so this isn't as far-fetched as it sounds

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

BTW that 1990 team had some very ordinary players in as well: Paul Parker, Stuart Pearce, Mark Wright, Terry Butcher (no doubting his heart though) whilst Peter Shilton was very much on the way down.

The likes of Gazza, Lineker, Walker and Platt were top-notch. Come to think of it, they all earned moves abroad (Lineker in 86), I suppose Waddle and squad member Trevor Steven all had foreign experience as well.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

FWIW, the best England team I can remember

http://www.skysports.com/fun_games/missingmen/0,20922,13024_6363083,00.html

(and I did it in 38.25 seconds)

 

[Mad Cyril]

I remember beer was cheaper in 1996. And people didn't p!ss on war memorials either.

 

[number11]

One thing about Euro 96 was that we had a good pool of strikers around at that time. Whilst sharing your feelings about Sheringham, he and Shearer did have a good partnership. At the time, Cole (who I can't stand) was banging in goals for Man Utd, Fowler has the world at his feet before injuries robbed him of fulfilling his potential, Ferdinand was freely scoring in the Prem, and of course Stan the man had more ability than the lot of them but didn't get a look in. I would love strikers of their calibre at the moment.

(opposite to Italia 90, where we only took 3 strikers, Lineker, Beardley and Bull (plus Platt as attacking midfielder).

I also share your reservations about Pearce of '96 vintage. Cole is a different class. Though in Italia 90, with the quite dour football played at that time, and Pearce 6 years younger he was up there with the best as a marauding Left back (great cross for Platt's opener against Cameroon).

Having watched some highlights of Italia 90 and Euro 92 in recent months, one thing it did show........the back pass role has massively improved the entertainment of football and was one piece of tinkering that FIFA got right.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

One thing about Euro 96 was that we had a good pool of strikers around at that time. Whilst sharing your feelings about Sheringham, he and Shearer did have a good partnership. At the time, Cole (who I can't stand) was banging in goals for Man Utd, Fowler has the world at his feet before injuries robbed him of fulfilling his potential, Ferdinand was freely scoring in the Prem, and of course Stan the man had more ability than the lot of them but didn't get a look in. I would love strikers of their calibre at the moment.

(opposite to Italia 90, where we only took 3 strikers, Lineker, Beardley and Bull (plus Platt as attacking midfielder).

I also share your reservations about Pearce of '96 vintage. Cole is a different class. Though in Italia 90, with the quite dour football played at that time, and Pearce 6 years younger he was up there with the best as a marauding Left back (great cross for Platt's opener against Cameroon).

Having watched some highlights of Italia 90 and Euro 92 in recent months, one thing it did show........the back pass role has massively improved the entertainment of football and was one piece of tinkering that FIFA got right.

Yeah, I think the two big differences between then and now are (1) the improvement in technique and (2) the drop off in depth. Just look who our forward options are behind Rooney now with the likes of Bent, Davies and Zamora in the reckoning. The depth we had around 1996 was amazing, you could add the likes of Ian Wright and Chris Sutton to that.

 

[EastStandBlue]

One of the encouraging signs at the moment, touch wood, is the relative wealth of strikers available to Psycho and Noel Blake at a U19 and U21 level... If only three of those who are seemingly top notch make it, they can supplement the likes of Rooney and Walcott who still have considerable years at the top, injuries pending.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

One of the encouraging signs at the moment, touch wood, is the relative wealth of strikers available to Psycho and Noel Blake at a U19 and U21 level... If only three of those who are seemingly top notch make it, they can supplement the likes of Rooney and Walcott who still have considerable years at the top, injuries pending.

Excuse my ignorance, but who are you referring to here?

Sturridge, Welbeck and that one we sold to Liverplol? Who should I be looking out for?

I think the issue is a lack of opportunity for these youngsters. You have to already be world class to make it at a big club.

 

[EastStandBlue]

Connor Wickham's supposed to be "the next big thing" (I know, I know, so was Danny Cadamateri) and, at 6'2 and 18 years old, he certainly has the physical requirements down to a tee. Benik Afobe is also supposed to be worth some attention (scored a hattrick against Cyprus this week). Delfouneso at Villa looks a prospect (As does Albrighton, who has impressed me massively, but he's not a forward). A lot was made of Victor Moses, but he hasn't had much impact at Wigan.

I fully agree with you about the lack of opportunities at the big clubs who continue to hoard these youngsters, which is why I'm completely dismayed at the disbanding of the proposed 6+5 rule whilst opting for this farcical 25 man squad limit which has done very little for youngsters.

The real acid test for England's current U19 crop is tomorrow night against Belgium. Both teams have won both games in their group so far, and Belgium have a batch of very highly rated footballers at that age group. Romelu Lukaku needs special attention... Reportedly just about to sign for Arsenal, he's 17 years old and built like the proverbial. Drogba-esque, with all of the goalscoring ability.

 

[chadded]

Not that I've watched more than about 2 hours of English footie since Sven took charge but the Gazza thread got me looking around a bit

If this is true and not some blag, then the rest of your post is baseless and irrelevant. As if so you haven't viewed them enough to form a basis for your opinion. ORM, no offence, but your recent comments on here (Eastwood and this) make you look a right wally IMO. Ashley Cole might be a ****, but he's currently the best left back in the World, and has been for a while now. That's not my opinion, but the opinion of Pundits, managers and footballers alike.

Anderton never fulfilled his potential. I don't care if you are potentially very good. Potentailly very good means that currently you arent very good. Lampard bangs in 20 a season for club and his record for England isn't half bad. McManaman wasn't special.

Rooney, Defoe and Crouch are undeniably better than Sheringham. And I like Sheringham (right up to the point he beat me in a road race along the A12 a few years ago. ****)

I'm not a fan of JT (John Terry, Not Pubey) either, but he's better than Southgate and Adams.

Will your next pearl of wisdom be that Paul Scholes is the best tackler in the prem? ;)

 

[Beefy]

It just goes to show that '96 team was nothing to write home about.

I was never overly keen on Seaman and felt he was the first step down after a long line of great England keepers.
Gary Neville was still around in 2010 and was overlooked
Pearce must be the most over-rated England player ever. He was a clogger. He use to kick people and hoof it down the line. Nowhere near the class of Ashley Cole. People need to stop comparing them as people and compare them as footballers. Actually don't bother because Pearce doesn't even compare to Cole, Cole is that much better than him.
Ince wasn't as good as he thought he was. At his peak he was a decent enough player at international level, but no more.
Adams - donkey Adams as he was known then, now nostalgised about. But then we did have Upson at centre-half, so he'd have made my combined team easily.
Southgate again over-rated. Why does missing a penalty make players so popular?
Gazza - loved him, but he wasn't the player he was in '90, despite that goal against the Jocks
Shearer - class
Sheringham - actually I take back what I said about Pearce being the most over-rated. I couldn't stand Sheringham.
McManaman - the natural successor to Barnes and predecessor for Gerrard (take back what I said about Sheringham....), in that he rarely did for England what he did for Liverpool but actually had a decent-ish tournament.
Anderton - a decent player, when fit. Which was rarely.


'96 produced maybe one good performance - against Hollland. The opening game was a nervy affair against the Swiss, a lesser team than the US, who we drew 1-1 with. Against Scotland, a lesser team than Slovakia (or Slovenia, whoever we played against) we needed the ball moving on the spot (er cheers Uri) to stop us being pegged back to 1-1. Obviously against Holland was fantastic. Against Spain we should have been eliminated with a goal that was wrongly ruled out for off-side and they hit the woodwork, we then scraped through on penalties. We then played quite well against the Germans but lost.

Shearer, Rooney, Ashley Cole were the only three genuinely world class players in those two combined squads (although Gazza had his moments).

Had Ferdinand, Woodgate*, Hargreaves and Beckham been fit, they'd have all made my combined XI (albeit only for 60 minutes in Beck's case).

*Remember Anderton was fit for '96 so this isn't as far-fetched as it sounds

The thing about the 96 Squad is that they are looked back now as heroes of English football but match by match, ball by ball, England in 96 at home were pretty much identical to England in 2004 under Sven other than in 96 we won a Quarter Final on pens having been outplayed by Iberian opposition and in 04 we lost a Quarter Final on pens having been outplayed by Iberian opposition. And Venables gets hailed as the last great England manager whereas Sven gets mocked. I've never understood it.

 

[Beefy]

Connor Wickham's supposed to be "the next big thing" (I know, I know, so was Danny Cadamateri) and, at 6'2 and 18 years old, he certainly has the physical requirements down to a tee. Benik Afobe is also supposed to be worth some attention (scored a hattrick against Cyprus this week). Delfouneso at Villa looks a prospect (As does Albrighton, who has impressed me massively, but he's not a forward). A lot was made of Victor Moses, but he hasn't had much impact at Wigan.

I fully agree with you about the lack of opportunities at the big clubs who continue to hoard these youngsters, which is why I'm completely dismayed at the disbanding of the proposed 6+5 rule whilst opting for this farcical 25 man squad limit which has done very little for youngsters.

The real acid test for England's current U19 crop is tomorrow night against Belgium. Both teams have won both games in their group so far, and Belgium have a batch of very highly rated footballers at that age group. Romelu Lukaku needs special attention... Reportedly just about to sign for Arsenal, he's 17 years old and built like the proverbial. Drogba-esque, with all of the goalscoring ability.

Saw a nice stat the other day that England are unbeaten at all age levels in 29 games since the start of the season. It looks like despite a lack of talented players in their early 20s breaking through we could have a decent side towards the latter half of this decade if the players get a chance.

 

[EastStandBlue]

The thing about the 96 Squad is that they are looked back now as heroes of English football but match by match, ball by ball, England in 96 at home were pretty much identical to England in 2004 under Sven other than in 96 we won a Quarter Final on pens having been outplayed by Iberian opposition and in 04 we lost a Quarter Final on pens having been outplayed by Iberian opposition. And Venables gets hailed as the last great England manager whereas Sven gets mocked. I've never understood it.

Sven gets mocked because he wasn't English and never endeared himself to the public or press pack. El Tel achieved nothing more than Sven the Swede, but he's thrust upon us as this tactical genius that fell victim to the English disease of not being good at penalties.

I've got a lot of time for Sven as a football administrator... He tried to push through the Winter break long before it became a hot topic.

Saw a nice stat the other day that England are unbeaten at all age levels in 29 games since the start of the season. It looks like despite a lack of talented players in their early 20s breaking through we could have a decent side towards the latter half of this decade if the players get a chance.

Yep, seems to be a reasonably high calibre of talent coming through. Joe Hart is in a position to be England's number one for some time, Keiran Gibbs looks a very useful player, I've been impressed with Phil Jones and Chris Smalling for the U19's and there's a number of central midfielders who look like having the ability.

Watching Noel Blake's U19s is a pleasure at the moment... They really do play with a vivacity that has long been absent from the senior squad.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Connor Wickham's supposed to be "the next big thing" (I know, I know, so was Danny Cadamateri) and, at 6'2 and 18 years old, he certainly has the physical requirements down to a tee. Benik Afobe is also supposed to be worth some attention (scored a hattrick against Cyprus this week). Delfouneso at Villa looks a prospect (As does Albrighton, who has impressed me massively, but he's not a forward). A lot was made of Victor Moses, but he hasn't had much impact at Wigan.

I fully agree with you about the lack of opportunities at the big clubs who continue to hoard these youngsters, which is why I'm completely dismayed at the disbanding of the proposed 6+5 rule whilst opting for this farcical 25 man squad limit which has done very little for youngsters.

The real acid test for England's current U19 crop is tomorrow night against Belgium. Both teams have won both games in their group so far, and Belgium have a batch of very highly rated footballers at that age group. Romelu Lukaku needs special attention... Reportedly just about to sign for Arsenal, he's 17 years old and built like the proverbial. Drogba-esque, with all of the goalscoring ability.

Thanks

The thing about the 96 Squad is that they are looked back now as heroes of English football but match by match, ball by ball, England in 96 at home were pretty much identical to England in 2004 under Sven other than in 96 we won a Quarter Final on pens having been outplayed by Iberian opposition and in 04 we lost a Quarter Final on pens having been outplayed by Iberian opposition. And Venables gets hailed as the last great England manager whereas Sven gets mocked. I've never understood it.

One thing in Venables' favour was he looked to move away from 4-4-2 and was therefore slightly ahead of his time (in English terms). I thought his use of Anderton and McManaman to occupy opponents' full-backs and stop them getting forward in certain games was particularly astute. However Venables is mainly revered in the English media for his willingness to give the media a quote and drink with them.

Sven was excellent in qualification, but I felt continually fell short in the big games against the top sides (Brazil, France, Portugal, Argentina etc). What was particularly criminal was how we had leads in all those games, but only once (Argentina group game) did we hold onto that lead. That's absolutely criminal in international football.

Saw a nice stat the other day that England are unbeaten at all age levels in 29 games since the start of the season. It looks like despite a lack of talented players in their early 20s breaking through we could have a decent side towards the latter half of this decade IF the players get a chance.

Added emphasis.

 

[Mad Cyril]

Saw a nice stat the other day that England are unbeaten at all age levels in 29 games since the start of the season. It looks like despite a lack of talented players in their early 20s breaking through we could have a decent side towards the latter half of this decade if the players get a chance.

My son won player of the week at his weekly Footy Tots meeting as well.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

My son won player of the week at his weekly Footy Tots meeting as well.

Congratulations.

Have you considered moving to France, Ireland or Poland (or somewhere else within an EasyJet flight) to ensure he is on Paul Sturrock's scouting radar? The club can't afford to let such talent slip through our net.

 

[Davros]

One thing about Euro 96 was that we had a good pool of strikers around at that time. Whilst sharing your feelings about Sheringham, he and Shearer did have a good partnership. At the time, Cole (who I can't stand) was banging in goals for Man Utd, Fowler has the world at his feet before injuries robbed him of fulfilling his potential, Ferdinand was freely scoring in the Prem, and of course Stan the man had more ability than the lot of them but didn't get a look in. I would love strikers of their calibre at the moment.

(opposite to Italia 90, where we only took 3 strikers, Lineker, Beardley and Bull (plus Platt as attacking midfielder).

I also share your reservations about Pearce of '96 vintage. Cole is a different class. Though in Italia 90, with the quite dour football played at that time, and Pearce 6 years younger he was up there with the best as a marauding Left back (great cross for Platt's opener against Cameroon).

Having watched some highlights of Italia 90 and Euro 92 in recent months, one thing it did show........the back pass role has massively improved the entertainment of football and was one piece of tinkering that FIFA got right.

Pretty sure you've overlooked Ian Wright there as well

 

[united we stand]

hmmmmmm Looking at it from a light hearted angle, and going a bit off topic ( Must calm down - Pearce is my favourite ever player )

• When was the last time we played a quality team in a tournament and made them look ordinary and thrashed them 4-1????
• When was the last time an Engish player scorred a penalty and it meant that much to the country?
• Sheringham played with Shearer becasue it worked- have we all forgottoen that ? Surely the fact we had so many quality strikers and Sherringham played means something
• Pearce a clogger and overrated---- Go away, how can he be over rated , no one would compare him to Cole, two totally different palyers from two different periods of foot ball. Cole is excellent, just because someone is not as good as him does not make him a 'clogger' I suggest you dig out 'Pyscho' the documentary to remind your self of his quality (and how inapprorpiate the nickname was) . Lets see if Cole is still being picked for England at 37 !
• We also haven't had a decent song since 1990 and 96
• Which tournament did you enjoy watcing the most ?