England

[Uncle Leo]

Have to agree with Martin Samuel here. Qualification for Euro 2016 is assured, so let's give our best U21s, even those with senior caps, the chance to get us to the U21 finals and gain some good tournament experience.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...hino-Co-England-ll-bigger-test-Under-21s.html

 

[ozzie]

very true uncle leo,but will the "fa" do the right thing!!!lets hope so

 

[Blue_Wes]

Have to agree with Martin Samuel here. Qualification for Euro 2016 is assured, so let's give our best U21s, even those with senior caps, the chance to get us to the U21 finals and gain some good tournament experience.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...hino-Co-England-ll-bigger-test-Under-21s.html

Been saying the same thing for ages. We're forever rushing our top prospects into the first team, desperate for success. It would be good to see our young players grow as a team and learn about pressure, rather than put them into the deep end of expectation the media and knee jerk fans put on the national side.

I'd drop some of the young fringe players from the main squad into that environment too. Shaw would benefit far more from tournament experience with the U21's than he will from ten minute dead rubber cameos for the main squad.

 

[EastStandBlue]

I genuinely think the FA would love to have a strong contingent for the U21s, but try convincing Premier League managers that said players should be spending their intermittent summers off (given these tournaments fall in the years between World Cups and European Championships) playing yet more football. Wenger kicked off big time when Pearce wanted Wilshere to play for the U21 side in his last European Championships in 2011 and effectively forced him out of selection, claiming it would've risked his fitness. It was, of course, beautifully ironic that Wilshere picked up the stress fracture that kept him out for the best part of 18 months playing in a meaningless, money-spinning friendly in New York he would've missed had he played for the U21 side.

Players like Wilshere, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Chambers, Shaw and Stones should undoubtedly be getting as much tournament experience as they can. The FA aren't the problem here, it's their respective managers.

 

[Uncle Leo]

I genuinely think the FA would love to have a strong contingent for the U21s, but try convincing Premier League managers that said players should be spending their intermittent summers off (given these tournaments fall in the years between World Cups and European Championships) playing yet more football. Wenger kicked off big time when Pearce wanted Wilshere to play for the U21 side in his last European Championships in 2011 and effectively forced him out of selection, claiming it would've risked his fitness. It was, of course, beautifully ironic that Wilshere picked up the stress fracture that kept him out for the best part of 18 months playing in a meaningless, money-spinning friendly in New York he would've missed had he played for the U21 side.

Players like Wilshere, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Chambers, Shaw and Stones should undoubtedly be getting as much tournament experience as they can. The FA aren't the problem here, it's their respective managers.

Precisely. These moans from PL managers would have more credence if they didn't send their players half way around the world every July to play money spinning exhibition games.

In other news, England to play Italy away at the end of March. Only a friendly, but a good test nonetheless.

http://www.thefa.com/news/england/2...ent-to-take-on-italy-on-tuesday-31-march-2015

 

[mrsblue]

Beginning to warm to Roy??????

Shelvey included and I think he if given time will pull the strings in France.

Well done Roy.

 

[ozzie]

I genuinely think the FA would love to have a strong contingent for the U21s, but try convincing Premier League managers that said players should be spending their intermittent summers off (given these tournaments fall in the years between World Cups and European Championships) playing yet more football. Wenger kicked off big time when Pearce wanted Wilshere to play for the U21 side in his last European Championships in 2011 and effectively forced him out of selection, claiming it would've risked his fitness. It was, of course, beautifully ironic that Wilshere picked up the stress fracture that kept him out for the best part of 18 months playing in a meaningless, money-spinning friendly in New York he would've missed had he played for the U21 side.

Players like Wilshere, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Chambers, Shaw and Stones should undoubtedly be getting as much tournament experience as they can. The FA aren't the problem here, it's their respective managers.

very true,but can ?? the "fa" demand that these u-21 players come/turn up???they can with the "first team",but the u-21, i dont know ??

 

[Jam_Man]

Im not sure the point in taking players who play week in and week out in the Premier league and Champions League in front of 60,000+ to an U21 competition.

 

[Pubey]

Im not sure the point in taking players who play week in and week out in the Premier league and Champions League in front of 60,000+ to an U21 competition.

Worked pretty well for Germany, their national team was founded by the focus being on the U21s and then reaping the reward of a very strong batch of youngsters coming through simultaneously.

 

[ryansm05]

Worked pretty well for Germany, their national team was founded by the focus being on the U21s and then reaping the reward of a very strong batch of youngsters coming through simultaneously.

Much to do with a depth of talent in Germany at that time.

Ozil, Khedira, Lahm, Schweinsteiger, Muller etc. were more than capable so there was no need to rush the likes of Gotze or Reus through.

I heard a cry for Downing to be brought into the side today such is the shortage of English talent in the pool. The reality is... Shaw, Stones, Delph, Chambers etc. are currently within the best 23 English players available. Therefore, we do not have that luxury IMO and they should be selected.

 

[ryansm05]

P.S Shaw excluded from that!

 

[Pubey]

Downing is playing pretty well at present.

 

[EastStandBlue]

very true,but can ?? the "fa" demand that these u-21 players come/turn up???they can with the "first team",but the u-21, i dont know ??

As far as I'm aware the call-up rule (that Deschamps seems so keen to extend to a retired Ribery) doesn't extend to U21s, quite. Quite rightly in my opinion as it's far too open to absolute nonsense.

 

[chapperzUK]

Much to do with a depth of talent in Germany at that time.

Ozil, Khedira, Lahm, Schweinsteiger, Muller etc. were more than capable so there was no need to rush the likes of Gotze or Reus through.

I heard a cry for Downing to be brought into the side today such is the shortage of English talent in the pool. The reality is... Shaw, Stones, Delph, Chambers etc. are currently within the best 23 English players available. Therefore, we do not have that luxury IMO and they should be selected.

The Germany 2009 Euro under 21 Squad included Ozil, Khedira, Hummels, Neuer, Howedes and Boateng who played a part in their World Cup win this summer. None of them were in the squad for the 2008 Euros for Germany.

It is really classed as a "luxury" to not play those players against countries like San Marino?

Let them play in the play-off games and in the tournament next summer, then they will be more prepared for the Euros in 2016.

Reus is 25, so not sure why you've mentioned him.

 

[ryansm05]

The Germany 2009 Euro under 21 Squad included Ozil, Khedira, Hummels, Neuer, Howedes and Boateng who played a part in their World Cup win this summer. None of them were in the squad for the 2008 Euros for Germany.

It is really classed as a "luxury" to not play those players against countries like San Marino?

Let them play in the play-off games and in the tournament next summer, then they will be more prepared for the Euros in 2016.

Reus is 25, so not sure why you've mentioned him.

So what are you trying to suggest? We pick an inferior squad so the likes of Ox and Sterling can play competitive U21 games, regardless of the fact that many of them are in sides challenging for the league and Europe?

It's all well and good saying "the likes of San Marino", but needn't we forget that we failed to qualify for Euro 2008. If they're good enough, they should be picked on merit not by age. Including someone such as Downing over Ox/Sterling is simply ludicrous and damn right unfair on the player.

And what's your point about Reus? He's 25. Yes? (25 - 4 years = 21). :unsure:

My point was that Germany have still managed to reach semi-finals and finals of World Cups/European Championships without blooding the youngsters. We on the other hand have not. We came bottom of our WC group, if you remember?

 

[Jam_Man]

As I said, Ox/Wilshire/Sterling are all at the top of the game already.

I just dont see what experience they will get at an U21 competition. These guys are playing in front of large crowds in massive games in the Premier and Champions Leagues. I dont see what they will get out of playing in some tinpot competition.

Just because Germany did what they did doesnt mean we should copy them verbatim, they had different players to us. We were told Spain were the ones to copy and they did about as well as us.

By all means put players in the U21 for experience, but dont put young players in there just because they are still young enough, when that level is clearly beneath them already.

 

[Uncle Leo]

As I said, Ox/Wilshire/Sterling are all at the top of the game already.

I just dont see what experience they will get at an U21 competition. These guys are playing in front of large crowds in massive games in the Premier and Champions Leagues. I dont see what they will get out of playing in some tinpot competition.

Just because Germany did what they did doesnt mean we should copy them verbatim, they had different players to us. We were told Spain were the ones to copy and they did about as well as us.

By all means put players in the U21 for experience, but dont put young players in there just because they are still young enough, when that level is clearly beneath them already.

Getting tournament experience is good; coping with the demands of playing a number of high quality, high pressure, games in a short space of time. To call the European Under 21 Championship 'tinpot' is unfair.

 

[Pubey]

As I said, Ox/Wilshire/Sterling are all at the top of the game already.

I just dont see what experience they will get at an U21 competition. These guys are playing in front of large crowds in massive games in the Premier and Champions Leagues. I dont see what they will get out of playing in some tinpot competition.

Just because Germany did what they did doesnt mean we should copy them verbatim, they had different players to us. We were told Spain were the ones to copy and they did about as well as us.

By all means put players in the U21 for experience, but dont put young players in there just because they are still young enough, when that level is clearly beneath them already.

I think the main thing is about building a collective/club-team atmosphere which enables a player to switch from Club to International 'mode' and still perform at the highest level. You learn that via experience, especially at big tournaments.

Impossible to prove, but I doubt any top national team is better than any top club team, so it's about how a group of players can come together, pick up where they left off and re-focus in an different environment. A good experience in an U21 tournament IMO is valuable for future senior tournament success.

Roy has talked about creating more of a 'club' atmosphere with the senior team which is right I think.

 

[chapperzUK]

So what are you trying to suggest? We pick an inferior squad so the likes of Ox and Sterling can play competitive U21 games, regardless of the fact that many of them are in sides challenging for the league and Europe?

It's all well and good saying "the likes of San Marino", but needn't we forget that we failed to qualify for Euro 2008. If they're good enough, they should be picked on merit not by age. Including someone such as Downing over Ox/Sterling is simply ludicrous and damn right unfair on the player.

And what's your point about Reus? He's 25. Yes? (25 - 4 years = 21). :unsure:

My point was that Germany have still managed to reach semi-finals and finals of World Cups/European Championships without blooding the youngsters. We on the other hand have not. We came bottom of our WC group, if you remember?

Yes, do we really need to play our best team to beat San Marino and their like? Yes we failed to qualify for Euro 2008, yet we still managed to smash Andorra. Why are you mentioning Sterling and Chamberlain? Your previous post said Shaw, Stones, Delph (too old anyway), Chambers so you can't just change your arguement. Yes they should be picked on merit and not age, but they will develop more and gain more experience playing at an under 21 tournament than being on the bench against players who aren't even professionals.

Reus was 24 when qualifying started, so he would still have been too old.

Easy to say they have the "luxury" now, but Germany failed to get out of the group stage at the 2000 and 2004 Euros, yet they still let players like Podolski and Schweinsteiger play in the under 21s. Yes we came bottom of our group, but it is short sighted to try and gain 3 points against a pub team when they could be playing in an international tournament next summer.

 

[chapperzUK]

By all means put players in the U21 for experience, but dont put young players in there just because they are still young enough, when that level is clearly beneath them already.

Is it?

Developing players is all about playing against players who are as good if not better. Look around the under 21 squads from 2013 (just 1 year ago) and there are several players who could easily walk into any Premier League team. Even some of them were playing at the Euros the year before.