England

[Jam_Man]

Is it?

Developing players is all about playing against players who are as good if not better. Look around the under 21 squads from 2013 (just 1 year ago) and there are several players who could easily walk into any Premier League team. Even some of them were playing at the Euros the year before.

I think so, yes.

A Champions League game in front of 60,000 will teach them far more than some U21 against weaker opposition.

If we have U21s not getting experience then they should be play, but the likes of Sterling really arent going to learn a lot.

 

[ryansm05]

I can't get into this too much as I'm off lunch.

But the fact is they're being played, and on merit too. There is a reason Roy has picked them, and long may it continue. There are no foundations to your argument, you're simply saying leave out (okay I'll go back to Stones, Chambers etc who ever it may be) the younger players and let them develop in the u21 sides - which will make them better players in the long run. Yet, they too have to play qualifiers to reach these major u21 tournaments (see below).

5 September 2013	England	1 – 0	Moldova	Madejski Stadium,Reading, England
19:45 UTC+01:00	Berahino 13'	Report		Referee: Nikola Dabanović (Montenegro)

9 September 2013	Finland	1 – 1	England	Tampere Stadium,Tampere, Finland
UTC+03:00	Yaghoubi 15'	Report	Berahino 67' '	Referee: Vladimir Kazmenko (Russia)

10 October 2013	San Marino	0 – 4	England	Stadio Olimpico,Serravalle, San Marino
UTC+02:00		Report	M. Keane 5' H. Kane 45(+3)' (pen.), 66', 89'	Referee: Eiko Saar (Estonia)

15 October 2013	England	5 – 0	Lithuania	Portman Road,Ipswich, England
18:00 UTC+01:00	Morrison 3', 71' Ward-Prowse 27' Berahino 63', 76' (pen.)	Report		Referee: Adrien Jaccottet (Switzerland)

14 November 2013	England	3 – 0	Finland	Stadium mk,Milton Keynes,England
19:45 UTC±00:00	M. Keane 21' Berahino 37', 90(+1)'	Report	P. O'Shaughnessy 70'	Referee: Paolo Valeri (Italy)

19 November 2013	England	9 – 0	San Marino	New Meadow,Shrewsbury,England
18:00 UTC±00:00	M. Keane 13' Sterling 15', 59' Ings 18', 48' Ward-Prowse 24' Ince 42' Jenkinson 61' Hughes 78'	Report		Referee: Gunnar Jarl Jónsson (Iceland)

5 March 2014	England	1 – 0	Wales	Pride Park Stadium, Derby,England
UTC±00:00	Redmond 56'	Report		Attendance: 13,408 Referee: Nicolas Rainville (France)

19 May 2014	Wales	1 – 3	England	Liberty Stadium,Swansea, Wales
19:30UTC+01:00	Edwards 20'	Report	Redmond 18', 38' Berahino 90' (+2)	Referee: Artyom Kuchin (Kazakhstan)

5 September 2014	Lithuania	0 – 1	England	Darius and Girėnas Stadium,Kaunas, Lithuania
19:00 UTC+03:00		Report	H. Kane 81'	Referee: Vlado Glodjović (Serbia)

9 September 2014

Moldova

0 – 3

England

So do they play the u21 qualifying games, which will be of lesser standard. Or do we just throw them in for the major u21 tournaments, and say "nice one lads for getting us here, but we're going to bring in Luke Shaw, John Stones, andros Townsend etc. to help us here"?

 

[Sandbach Shrimper]

Can't argue with Clyne and Shelvey getting called up, both deserved. But what do Ryan Shawcross and Mark Noble have to do to get a call?

 

[Jim Levenstein]

Can't argue with Clyne and Shelvey getting called up, both deserved. But what do Ryan Shawcross and Mark Noble have to do to get a call?

Shawcross - Can see where you're coming from

Mark Noble - No way

 

[Pubey]

I think so, yes.

A Champions League game in front of 60,000 will teach them far more than some U21 against weaker opposition.

If we have U21s not getting experience then they should be play, but the likes of Sterling really arent going to learn a lot.

But it'll teach them about how to play for their club, it doesn't teach them how to play an international game with team mates who you aren't with week-in-week-out.

 

[Jam_Man]

Mark Noble ?!?!

He isnt fit anyway.

 

[Jam_Man]

But it'll teach them about how to play for their club, it doesn't teach them how to play an international game with team mates who you aren't with week-in-week-out.

I dont think thats enough of a reason or enough of a benefit personally.

 

[chapperzUK]

I think so, yes.

A Champions League game in front of 60,000 will teach them far more than some U21 against weaker opposition.

If we have U21s not getting experience then they should be play, but the likes of Sterling really arent going to learn a lot.

An International tournament against some of the best young talent in the world and they aren't going to learn much? A fair amount of those that go to the tournament already play in the Champions League and having players like Sterling and Chamberlain won't make them be out of place.

Even just the experience of being at the tournament will benefit. It is that or play some friendly in another continent so their club gains extra revenue.

So do they play the u21 qualifying games, which will be of lesser standard. Or do we just throw them in for the major u21 tournaments, and say "nice one lads for getting us here, but we're going to bring in Luke Shaw, John Stones, andros Townsend etc. to help us here"?

Luke Shaw and John Stones weren't even considered for the full England team until earlier this year. So like I've said, would they develop best by sitting on the bench for the full England team or starting in the under 21s? Also, in the under 21s they will be bonding with other future England players meaning when they go up to the full national side it won't be like a "bunch of strangers".

 

[Jam_Man]

An International tournament against some of the best young talent in the world and they aren't going to learn much? A fair amount of those that go to the tournament already play in the Champions League and having players like Sterling and Chamberlain won't make them be out of place.

Even just the experience of being at the tournament will benefit. It is that or play some friendly in another continent so their club gains extra revenue.

They play against the top clubs in the world already, they learn far more from those than they would playing against kids in a competition no one cares about.

And another point, you advocate taking a player with lots of experience like Sterling/Ox who have already played at the top which then means another U21 player without that experience sits at home.

 

[chapperzUK]

They play against the top clubs in the world already, they learn far more from those than they would playing against kids in a competition no one cares about.

So just because you don't care about the competition it is pointless? So Sterling playing against the likes of Basel and Ludogorets will be far more beneficial than playing against players who play regularly for top sides such as Bayern, Barcelona and Real Madrid?

Guess it is one of those where we agree to disagree then.

 

[Jam_Man]

So just because you don't care about the competition it is pointless? So Sterling playing against the likes of Basel and Ludogorets will be far more beneficial than playing against players who play regularly for top sides such as Bayern, Barcelona and Real Madrid?

Guess it is one of those where we agree to disagree then.

Sterling is already playing against the first teams of Real Madrid, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Man Utd etc and not just the young players of those teams.

As I added on my last post, why deprive a player who doesnt get to play the top sides a chance to play those U21's and force someone who plays top tier football already.

 

[chapperzUK]

Sterling is already playing against the first teams of Real Madrid, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Man Utd etc and not just the young players of those teams.

As I added on my last post, why deprive a player who doesnt get to play the top sides a chance to play those U21's and force someone who plays top tier football already.

If Sterling is already playing against teams like Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal and Man Utd then what good is playing in Champions League games? As I said, playing against players who are as good as you or better will improve you. This is what the tournament will allow.

Players like Sterling and Chamberlain could be playing a big part in Euro 2016 and giving them tournament experience before that will help IMO. Those that won't get a game will be the same age or possibly older than those mentioned, so there is little chance they will be surpassing them to get into the full England team.

I'm not saying Sterling should certainly go, my original point was that players like Shaw and Chambers should. Shaw and Chambers are both 19 and both have players ahead of them for their position in the national side for the next couple of years.

 

[Jam_Man]

Shaw and Chambers right now, yes they should be involved with the U21s, but they dont have the experience of the likes of Ox/Sterling who I was talking about .

Give it a season and they could both have 30 premier league appearances under their belts as well as CL games.

If at that point they arent likely to feature for England seniors then certainly should play U21 level.

 

[Beefy]

There's no serious suggestion of Sterling or Wilshere dropping down and nor should there be. The debate is about players who are te next tier down and whether they benefit more from staying as a unit in the U21s or being squad players in a senior side without a meaningful game in the next 21 months.

You'll always have the odd top quality young player who needs to step up to the first team early. Brazil took Ronaldo to the World Cup at 17. Sterling is already probably our best player and it benefits no one playing him at U21 level.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

England are playing mighty San Marino tonight.Don't all yawn.:zzzzz:

 

[Jam_Man]

There's no serious suggestion of Sterling or Wilshere dropping down and nor should there be. The debate is about players who are te next tier down and whether they benefit more from staying as a unit in the U21s or being squad players in a senior side without a meaningful game in the next 21 months.

You'll always have the odd top quality young player who needs to step up to the first team early. Brazil took Ronaldo to the World Cup at 17. Sterling is already probably our best player and it benefits no one playing him at U21 level.

Indeed, any player that hasnt any prospect of playing in the senior team should be in the U21's. If they are considered to have a chance in the senior team, even as sub then they should be included. No point holding back players just because of their age.

England are playing mighty San Marino tonight.Don't all yawn.:zzzzz:

I find these games more interesting that some of the middle ground teams to be honest.

Nice to watch a game and know there will be goals, bit of light relief compared to some of the tighter games.

 

[EastStandBlue]

Also throws up the opportunity to try something new or work on having to break teams down, which is something you'll inevitably have to do over the course of a tournament.

 

[Pubey]

Roy seems to be keen about players having certain numbers of touches in certain positions, and things like having 3 passes before hitting a long pass or through-ball. Hart playing from the back. (not sure on the exactly specifics but read about it before the WC).

I hope we continue to try and do this - not in an arbitrary way, but to ensure that players build confidence on the ball and are able to be more patient and precise when it comes to breaking teams down. Get San Marino working hard and moving around and the gaps will open up, even if it's into the second half.

 

[mrsblue]

The match report

England 6 San Marino 0

San Marino kicked off and instantly had everyone behind the ball,Playing their lone forward who at times was in his own penalty area.England finished a 1000 pass move to take the lead then treated the 35000 crowd to nifty training session routines.The evening progressed with Hart receiving a pass back which he hit first time and the ball rocketing past the hapless SM keeper.After the game Roy stated we will dominate world football for the next 5000 year's.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Given this won't sell out, can you buy tickets on the gate?