Gerrard Again

[BoyWonder2]

I'm with Beefy on this one to be honest.

First of all the penalty. Never a penalty in a million years, but like Gerarrd has done on many occassionals, he has cheated to win the penalty, not dived. There is contact, hence why it isn't a dive, but his cheated in his reaction to the contact.

Liverpool have to be the luckiest team so far this season. They have scored 8 goals in the last 15 minutes of the game so far, but they had no luck against Spurs because they should have thrashed them.

Stevie G is MASSIVELY overrated. His a good player, there is no doubt of that, but the way he is hyped up is unbelieveable. I can't even tell you when he had a decent half for England, let alone a full 90 minutes. Yes he scored goals, but Lampard and Ronaldo both play in midfield and have scored more goals than. His range of passing is ok, but he gives the ball away more than any other player in the England team. Beckham has the ability to drop the ball on a six pence from 50 yards, whereas Gerarrd believes his does so tries the same thing but pulles it out 1 out of 50 times.

He can't play outwide for Club or Country because he always drifts infield and ruins the balance of the team when his out there, and when he plays for Liverpool in the middle of the park he normally has Javier and Alonso in there to do the "dirty side" of the game, such as tackle, intercept, head etc, but Gerrard tends to do the glory part in scoring or assisting goals.

Give he Lampard anyday of the week.

 

[Beefy]

I don't need to read my post again - I know exactly what I wrote. Obviously I'm speaking relatively. If we praise or criticise a Southend player we're effectively judging him against his peers at this level of football - Freddy Eastwood was a brilliant player for us compared to most players at this level and a pretty poor one if compared to Ronaldo or Ruud Van Nistelrooy. Conversely Che Wilson and Matt Harrold would be footballing Gods compared to even the best players over the Parks on a Sunday morning. Reiterating that point isn't backtracking it's simply acknowledging something that I'd presume would be taken as a given by anyone on a messageboard who isn't looking to nit-pick an argument, presumably because they haven't got much to back up their own stand-point and wish to detract from the main point (which is that Steven Gerrard cheated Athletico last night the same way that he's cheated dozens of sides in the past).

Gerrard is portrayed as being one of the best midfielders in Europe and it is on that basis that he should be judged. You want to pick apart my argument? Fine.

1) Steven Gerrard rarely dominates games. Admittedly, this part of my argument was midleading. What I should have put is 'Steven Gerrard rarely dominates games against decent opposition'. You want someone to roll over Andorra or to get you out of the fire against Galatasaraay then get on the phone to Stevie G. He plays so far forward without any defensive responsibilities that he's always likely to pop up with a goal (which is certainly not an aspect of his game that I'd underestimate) but how many times has he faced a real World Class opponent and dominated? Keane and Vieria used to school him regularly when they were around. Gerrard just doesn't dictate play in the same way that a Paul Scholes, a Deco, a Kaka, Ronaldinho or Gennaro Gattuso does. Liverpool's title challenge this year, and their victories over Manchester United & Chelsea in particular, weren't built upon Gerrard, rather they have been reliant upon Javier Macherano and Xabi Alonso.

Steven Gerrard's defining moment was the second half and extra time against Milan in 2005. For those 75 minutes he rolled his sleeves up and really stamped his authority on a game that actually mattered against top, top quality opposition. OK, he was basically a right-wing back for that period which is probably how he was able to finally get out of Gattuso's pocket after a shocking first half for him and his team but regardless he put in a fantastic performance and deserved praise. Even if he did dive for the penalty for their equaliser which history has somehow glossed over. But that game was the exception rather than the rule and in the big matches since (Champions League Finals, World Cup Quarter Finals) he's been anonymous.

2) He can't tackle. I'm pretty sure that even Gerrard himself doesn't consider himself a tackler. He was a holding midfielder when he first broke through for Liverpool and England but for both he was swiftly moved further forward because he just isn't the sort of player who is overly good at breaking up play. Again, Liverpool paid £18m for Mascherano and were keen to pay another £18m for Gareth Barry purely on that basis.

3) He has no (tactical) discipline. Does this really need any sort of validation?! When has he ever stuck to the position that he's supposed to be in? He's been nominally on the left for England in recent games and on the right when McLaren dropped Beckham but either way you wouldn't have known it from the position that he plays. Gerrard plays where he wants to play.

4) He's not half the passer that he thinks he is. Does this mean that he's not a good passer of the ball? I don't think so or else I'd have said "he's not a good passer". I've sat freezing cold at Wembley enough times to feel fully warranted in saying this. He loves pinging balls over the top of defences just like David Beckham has made a career out of. The difference is that whilst Beckham will find his man six times out of ten, Gerrard will do it three times out of ten. It's exactly the same story with Liverpool too.

Gerrard isn't a playmaker. Gerrard isn't a tough-tackling ball-winner. He's an attacking midfielder with a great shot on him and a knack of scoring massive goals for his Club. And yet he's portrayed by the media as being some kind of footballing genius by the media in this country and by those who just regurgitate whatever it is that they've read/heard on TalkSPORT this week rather than watching games and forming their own opinions. Hence why, in my opinion, he's extremely overrated.

Is that ok Einstein? This is the second time I've disagreed with you about something on here (last time was over some throw-away comment about Ricky Gervais a couple of years ago) and both times you've launched some OTT tirade rather than actually enter a decent discussion about the issue (which I would have thought would have been the whole point behind having a messageboard). Perhaps if you're going to continue this discourse you can concentrate on the actual important charges which are that Steven Gerrard is a cheat for continually conning referees and a hypocrite for doing this despite coming out against people diving in the press and in his autobiography.

 

[Beefy]

Can someone (anyone) please explain to me what the defender does wrong here?

The defenders eyes are on the ball, he jumps with his arms down to avoid a foul then Gerrard throws himself into him. The contact is with Gerrard's left shoulder so why does Gerrard throw his right arm up other than for such dramatic effect?

I have no problem with attackers drawing fouls out of defenders. Michael Owen for England's penalty against Argentina in 2002 for example. But running into defenders in order to make it look like they are fouling you is cheating, nothing more nothing less. It's exactly what Francis Laurent did on saturday.

 

[Einstein]

Is that ok Einstein? This is the second time I've disagreed with you about something on here (last time was over some throw-away comment about Ricky Gervais a couple of years ago) and both times you've launched some OTT tirade rather than actually enter a decent discussion about the issue (which I would have thought would have been the whole point behind having a messageboard). Perhaps if you're going to continue this discourse you can concentrate on the actual important charges which are that Steven Gerrard is a cheat for continually conning referees and a hypocrite for doing this despite coming out against people diving in the press and in his autobiography.

Talk about throwing your toys out of the pram! :stunned:

How I've launched into a tirade I'll never know. Think you need to re-read my posts. To call that one of the worst posts I've ever read, is my opinion and my right. If you think this post is one of the worst posts you've ever read, then that is your opinion and you are entitled to make it. Talk about over-sensitive!

 

[Beefy]

I don't believe you that a two line post about Steven Gerrard, which I've backed up far more than I should have had to, is the worst post you've seen in five years. Hence why it's OTT.

It's just an observation I've made from the two times our paths have now crossed that when someone disagrees with you you lash out and throw around neg-rep. I couldn't care less about my rep but if I see a post I disagree with I'll form an argument to counter it rather than leave some stupid message in the rep. It seems curious to me that you'd make 5,000 posts on a messageboard when you apparently have no interest in actually debating any points.

 

[Beefy]

Anyone, I can't be arsed with this debate any more. I'll let it drop until the next time Gerrard cons a ref in the area. Probably next week :)

 

[Einstein]

I don't believe you that a two line post about Steven Gerrard, which I've backed up far more than I should have had to.

No-one asked you to. You posted, I posted back, you chose to reply... that's the way a messageboard works...

you lash out and throw around neg-red. I couldn't care less about my rep but...

Obviously you do. Otherwise you wouldn't be whinging now about it. As for lashing out. It's called "I disapprove" of your post, that is what the rep function is for. If you "disapprove" of this post then go ahead and do what you are entitled to do.

It seems curious to me that you'd make 5,000 posts on a messageboard when you apparently have no interest in actually debating any points.

Again, no idea exactly what the hell you are on about here. No interest in debating? Very rarely do I respond with just a "one liner" so have no idea what you are on about. I made my points by a), b), c) and d). And asked further questions.

However, now I give up. Clearly anyone disagreeing with your hatred of Gerrard is never going to win. As for media spout. He has been voted for the top awards by fellow professionals. There isn't a better judgement of a player than that.

 

[fredheim_holm]

I was referring to tactical discipline. Of which he has none, hence why he never stays out wide when put there for club and country and needs two holding players behind him for Liverpool to do his tackling for him. Of course he hasn't been sent off much in the past five years - he's a model pro, remember. A role-model for kids everywhere to follow.

You've found a couple of decent tackles from him. Well done. I'm sure you could find a couple of decent tackles from Paul Scholes and Che Wilson too. I doubt even Gerrard would consider tackling to be his forte. As for passing, I said that he's not half the passer that he thinks he is. Yeah he does pop up with a lot of good, long-range passes but he thinks he's as good at it as David Beckham is. In just about every England game I've seen him in he's attempted Hollywood pass after Hollywood pass and inevitably they end up twenty yards ahead of the player that he's aiming for.

Steven Gerrard is clearly a very good footballer. For Liverpool at least. He's both a good goalscorer and a scorer of good goals. But he's not as good as he's hyped up to be and yet apparently it's considered sacrilegious to question whether there are flaws in his game. It's like having Kevin Maher back here again. But my point wasn't primarily that he's no good it's that he's a cheat and a hypocrite and I note that no one has argued with the evidenced that I supplied to both of those accusations.

I'm not going to give you red rep as it's your opinion, which is as worthy as mine. But I honestly can't agree with what you've been saying.

 

[Kris]

I have to say I'm with Beefy on this topic. Steven Gerrard is without doubt a very good midfielder but he simply isn't the world class player that the media often portray him as. Why? Because he plays too much with his heart and lacks the footballing brain that would propel him up to the level of true greats like Zidane.

As Beefy said, time after time in an England shirt he drops deep and attempts Hollywood passes that simply aren't on. In the international arena, where keeping possession is vital against top opposition, it's brainless play. In fairness, he's far from the only England player who does it (Frank Lampard is similarly overrated) but in terms of selecting the right pass and actually executing it, he's way behind David Beckham in the creative stakes - which perhaps partly explains why England struggled so much when McClaren dropped Beckham completely and moved Gerrard to the right to succeed him.

Gerrard has had wonderful moments in both Liverpool and England shirts but, particularly for his country, the flaws in his game are becoming more and more evident. For me, he is tactically and technically short of the player he is made out to be.

 

[Aberdeen Shrimper]

No dive?!

Hmmmmmmm, i would tend to agree with Einstien, although those arms coming out and the head being thrown back, classic attempt to con the ref.

Still i want all British clubs to progress so i am happy with the Pen award

 

[Aberdeen Shrimper]

No-one asked you to. You posted, I posted back, you chose to reply... that's the way a messageboard works...

Obviously you do. Otherwise you wouldn't be whinging now about it. As for lashing out. It's called "I disapprove" of your post, that is what the rep function is for. If you "disapprove" of this post then go ahead and do what you are entitled to do.

Again, no idea exactly what the hell you are on about here. No interest in debating? Very rarely do I respond with just a "one liner" so have no idea what you are on about. I made my points by a), b), c) and d). And asked further questions.

However, now I give up. Clearly anyone disagreeing with your hatred of Gerrard is never going to win. As for media spout. He has been voted for the top awards by fellow professionals. There isn't a better judgement of a player than that.

That is my job because half the time i can not be bothered to put together a well constructed post, just a one-liner to take the p**s

;)

 

[BILLERICAY BLUE]

Definite pen, and Gerrard is God. End of debate !

 

[shrimper4life]

Taken from another forum, but i think it sums up the modern game:

"Nothing new really is it?

He's been doing it for years to great effect.

It's part of the modern game, professionalism some call it, the Italians call it 'furbo(?)' or something like.

It's cheating but I think most teams now have players that do it.

Atletico certainly do."

 

[Einstein]

I see that lad Gerrard scored again (and also had a great game by all accounts too). Top scorer of the best club competition of the world. From midfield.

Bit overrated that lad :)

 

[Richard T]

Not his best game but still pretty good.
Possible the best midfield player in the World !

Pele
"Gerrard is an excellent player, absolutely world class. If I was a manager, everywhere I went I would buy Steven Gerrard. He is what Brazil needs, because he is always looking forward and has a big heart. When I saw him in Tokyo in a game against Sao Paulo, I said that Gerrard is a great player. To me he is one of the best midfielders in the world."

 

[number11]

Another important goal for him yesterday and that has made him top scorer in the competition. If someone like Van Nistelroy was top scoring in the competition at this stage it would seem likely that everyone would be saying he has done everything expected despite bringing nothing else to the team.....Gerrard is top scorer despite having other roles than just goalscoring, so I would say that's a pretty good effort.

 

[seany t]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/7751930.stm

Someone on 606 called MouthoftheSouth thinks he's the best midfielder in the world?!?!?

 

[chadded]

I hate to agree with Einstein, in fact I hate Einstein, but Gerrard is an amazing player. Mainly for the fact he single handedly carries Liverpool. I feel sorry for him, because it's like he has a massive weight round his neck. If he was free of the stress of lierally having to carry the whole team week in week out, then he'd be even better. And thats scary.

 

[Einstein]

I hate Einstein.

Bit harsh. Last time I give you a roof over your head for a weekend.

I hate to agree with Einstein.

Most people do, but it's hard not to ;)

 

[Aberdeen Shrimper]

And apparently he had a lighter thrown at him by the away supporters although resisted the urge to throw it back

Media quote

As for the flying lighter which hit his captain on the chest, Benitez praised Gerrard for his dispassionate response. "He is very professional.’’ Gerrard himself commented: "It was just important not to react. The best thing is to ignore these people and leave them to the police.’’ Gerrard might also have remembered the three-match ban that befell his friend and team-mate, Jamie Carragher, for chucking a coin back into the crowd.


Note to Drogba........