Goalkeeper rule change

[Lavender Blue]

Goal keepers are excellent time wasters in many different ways, I have never seen a goalie get 2 yellows for time wasting even though many continue to do it once they receive the 1st card, refs just bottle it.

 

[Firestorm]

You might not think that if you saw the 'shoulder charge' on Harry Gregg in the 1958 Cup final. It would be a red card today!

The old law was a an element protection for the keeper when he had the ball in his hand/s is as much as shoulder barge was permitted if the keeper had both hands on the ball and both feet on the ground in the 6 yard box , any where outside the six yard box he was allowed to be shoulder barged whilst in possession , the same as anyone else on the pitch.
Harry Greggs situation was the same as that of an outfield player, in as much that it was not in his hand/s so it was just deemed to be a standard ariel challenge

 

[Richard Hearn]

After the ref has deemed the 8 seconds has started, he will then raise his arm to indicate there are 5 seconds left and countdown on his fingers of the raised arm.

I'd rather he did the "3,2,1" finger shuffle a la Ted Rogers.

 

[Chris Powell's mate]

The old law was a an element protection for the keeper when he had the ball in his hand/s is as much as shoulder barge was permitted if the keeper had both hands on the ball and both feet on the ground in the 6 yard box , any where outside the six yard box he was allowed to be shoulder barged whilst in possession , the same as anyone else on the pitch.
Harry Greggs situation was the same as that of an outfield player, in as much that it was not in his hand/s so it was just deemed to be a standard ariel challenge

Quite right!
But it was the same ball-park idea of a 'challenge' on the keeper that allowed the Bolton goal to stand.
At the time, the protection afforded keepers was minimal, now it's over the top.
Can you imagine a scenario where keepers would be shoulder barged now?
The keeper would just turn slightly left or right to incur a charge anywhere but the shoulder and win a foul further delaying a restart, which is what this thread is all about; quick restarts!

 

[Chris Powell's mate]

After the ref has deemed the 8 seconds has started, he will then raise his arm to indicate there are 5 seconds left and countdown on his fingers of the raised arm.

This is the bit that interests me.
With a run of the mill foul, the ref has decided it is one: a subjective decision, if you like
Here, we're playing with exactness not subjectivity: eight seconds, not seven or nine, but eight.
That's why I like goal-line technology. Has the whole of the ball crossed the line (?) is no longer a debate.
Has the ref counted eight seconds accurately, or has he guessed it?
Why add a rod to officials backs? Surely, they've got enough to deal with already?

 

[PIERS]

I like the change. a second yellow is a fairly nuclear option especially early on in a game and as mentioned is never used . the ref has a degree of flexibility as to how he plays it. If a keeper is getting on his nerves or has been spoken to then his hand goes up and the 5 second count down starts . especially handy in injury time..

Should you get a ref who plays it hardball from the very start of the game then adapt accordingly

 

[Mick]

This is the bit that interests me.
With a run of the mill foul, the ref has decided it is one: a subjective decision, if you like
Here, we're playing with exactness not subjectivity: eight seconds, not seven or nine, but eight.
That's why I like goal-line technology. Has the whole of the ball crossed the line (?) is no longer a debate.
Has the ref counted eight seconds accurately, or has he guessed it?
Why add a rod to officials backs? Surely, they've got enough to deal with already?

It is only not an issue in less than 1% of the country's football.
This change should encompass football at all levels, in all locations.

 

[Mick]

If it speeds up the game then great, but i don't really get why referees aren't just told to enforce the current 6 second law, and to be instructed to start the count when the 'keeper catches the ball, not when they eventually stand up. They're all timing the match anyway so keeping an eye on their watch until the 'keeper releases isn't all that difficult.

My main issue is the punishment. Call me traditional, but I don't like the idea of giving a corner when the ball hasn't crossed the goal line. It's more like a penalty corner in hockey.

..... or a penalty try in rugby or a 5-run award in cricket ?

It's a convenient and proportionate penalty. No referee likes to try to manage an indirect free-kick to the attacking team close to the goal !!

 

[Mick]

I repeat the question: how will it be timed?
Please don't tell me NL refs will have the presence of mind to glance at their stopwatch the instant a ball is in a keeper hands.
Because if they did, the six-second law would have been enforced far more often.
This is open to abuse: one ref's eight seconds is another's 10 - and so on.

The failure to enforce the existing 6 second law is not because referees do not have the presence of mind but because PGMOL (the people who run refereeing in this country and largely in the pockets of the Premier League) do not want it enforced. This new law will only work if PGMOL want it to and only for as long as they continue to want it. Past experience does not provide confidence in this happening.

This is but one facet of time wasting. If they are serious about tackling it, other options could include:

Change a throw-in to the other team if the taker takes too long.
Change a goal-kick into a corner if there is clear time wasting before taking it.
Similarly, but less likely, change a corner-kick into a goal-kick.
Reverse free kicks if there is clear time wasting before taking it.
At top levels, take time-keeping away from the referees who have shown themselves incapable of doing it properly.

 

[Mick]

A booking after 8 is much more of an incentive to not time waste, there is no guarantee that the opposition are going to score from a corner.

I'd guess around one in 25 corners produces a goal. For some clubs, and I have one in mind, the success rate is much lower.

 

[Microbe]

Some rule changes do have a positive impact on the game, its just about defining the sanction and then making sure its applied properly at all times, it can be done!

Remember when players used to regularly feign injury and demand physio attention to slow down play? The introduction of 30 seconds delay to re-enter the field of play has largely stopped this.

Its about making the sanction fair for the "crime" and easy to apply by the officiating team.

 

[londonblue]

..... or a penalty try in rugby or a 5-run award in cricket ?

It's a convenient and proportionate penalty. No referee likes to try to manage an indirect free-kick to the attacking team close to the goal !!

Not really. As far as I understand it a penalty try in rugby is given when the team would have scored a try if the "foul" hadn't been committed. That is more equivalent to a goal being awarded for DOGSO.

I'll give you the cricket one, but again, that is actually an award of runs. A corner doesn't guarantee anything. And given the ball hasn't crossed the goal line, I have a problem with it. I'm sure I'll get over it, but I still don't understand why they don't just enforce the law as it stands.

I get that referees don't like it, but should that really be why a decision is made? After all, the more they do it, the more practice they'll get!

 

[uysapie]

I've never seen the 6 second rule enforced so why increase it to 8 seconds? Far too much so called "dark arts" which need to be addressed. 90 minute game, ball in play less than 60 minutes. Ridiculous.

 

[Holy Joe]

The failure to enforce the existing 6 second law is not because referees do not have the presence of mind but because PGMOL (the people who run refereeing in this country and largely in the pockets of the Premier League) do not want it enforced. This new law will only work if PGMOL want it to and only for as long as they continue to want it. Past experience does not provide confidence in this happening.

This is but one facet of time wasting. If they are serious about tackling it, other options could include:

Change a throw-in to the other team if the taker takes too long.
Change a goal-kick into a corner if there is clear time wasting before taking it.
Similarly, but less likely, change a corner-kick into a goal-kick.
Reverse free kicks if there is clear time wasting before taking it.
At top levels, take time-keeping away from the referees who have shown themselves incapable of doing it properly.

Has there been a pgmol directive on the added time - it started to be enforced at the NL level but seems to have really dropped off, with no corresponding reduction in time wasting. Premier league still seems to have a larger amount of added time - be interesting to see if there's any stats on amount of added time.

 

[borientater]

I'm sure there is a loophole that keepers already use anyway, by bouncing the ball. That technically means the ball isn't being held for a sustained period of time.

It's all nonsense anyway. This should be controlled already by the refs who already have the power to book players for time wasting, but very often don't until the latter stages of a match. That's one thing that really annoys me. You hear commentators say it about bad challenges early on in games, "Maybe he didn't book him because it's early on in the game." No it's a yellow card in whichever minute, same for time wasting. We've seen many sides literally do it from minute one. If refs aren't currently using rules that are already in place to enforce positive change, do we really think they will enforce this corner one?

Rules are never enforced properly. Wasn't it the world cup or the euros when they were adding 15 mins of injury time because of time wasting. That seems to have stopped. Is that really because players have stopped doing it, or because refs have stopped counting the minutes? Same with not surrounding the ref. Is that always enforced? Wrexham getting that goal overturned at Roots Hall suggests otherwise.

Bouncing the ball is not a loophole, the six seconds starts once the goalie has the ball under control as far as I’m aware , he can drop the ball and play it with his feet once the six seconds are up but he then becomes an outfield player and cannot pick it up again .

 

[Chris Powell's mate]

It is only not an issue in less than 1% of the country's football.
This change should encompass football at all levels, in all locations.

Agreed!
I gave a talk to the Referees Society more than 30 years ago about the use of goal-line technology - they laughed.
The question is now how to make it affordable for all the EFL, and at least the first two tiers of non-league?

 

[Chris Powell's mate]

The failure to enforce the existing 6 second law is not because referees do not have the presence of mind but because PGMOL (the people who run refereeing in this country and largely in the pockets of the Premier League) do not want it enforced. This new law will only work if PGMOL want it to and only for as long as they continue to want it. Past experience does not provide confidence in this happening.

This is but one facet of time wasting. If they are serious about tackling it, other options could include:

Change a throw-in to the other team if the taker takes too long.
Change a goal-kick into a corner if there is clear time wasting before taking it.
Similarly, but less likely, change a corner-kick into a goal-kick.
Reverse free kicks if there is clear time wasting before taking it.
At top levels, take time-keeping away from the referees who have shown themselves incapable of doing it properly.

May I add to that keeper 'injuries'?
Simply, make the No1 go off like any outfielder and unable to return until the ref deems a suitable break in play.
After all, how difficult is it to pull on a keeper's jersey and gloves if you're an outfield player?
If the opposition kept the ball in play until they put one past Mr Stand-In - the practice would soon stop.
And if a player on the same side as Mr 'Injured' was deemed to have deliberately hoofed the ball out of play to enforce a break - a yellow card.
That last could would under the umbrella of 'unsportsmanlike conduct.'

 

[Mick]

Bouncing the ball is not a loophole, the six seconds starts once the goalie has the ball under control as far as I’m aware , he can drop the ball and play it with his feet once the six seconds are up but he then becomes an outfield player and cannot pick it up again .

Not exactly an outfield player but a keeper infringing the rules. An outfield player would concede a penalty, the keeper an indirect.

 

[Shrimper]

The failure to enforce the existing 6 second law is not because referees do not have the presence of mind but because PGMOL (the people who run refereeing in this country and largely in the pockets of the Premier League) do not want it enforced. This new law will only work if PGMOL want it to and only for as long as they continue to want it. Past experience does not provide confidence in this happening.

This is but one facet of time wasting. If they are serious about tackling it, other options could include:

Change a throw-in to the other team if the taker takes too long.
Change a goal-kick into a corner if there is clear time wasting before taking it.
Similarly, but less likely, change a corner-kick into a goal-kick.
Reverse free kicks if there is clear time wasting before taking it.
At top levels, take time-keeping away from the referees who have shown themselves incapable of doing it properly.

And when timewasting subs book the player coming on for not being on the pitch quick enough

 

[Exiled blue]

Did a game in Harold Wood some time back. The keeper was just bouncing the ball on the edge of his area so told him to get rid of it but he carried on so warned him again to get rid but he didn't so gave an indirect free kick to which he went ballistic at me but tbf one of his players said to him he warned you twice. The free kick resulted in a goal in the top corner to which the keeper ran at me aggressively and shouting every obsenity under the sun in my face and the manager came on the pitch doing the same, they both got red carded.
Like a previous poster said the refs have the tools they just need the bollox to apply them.
PS. The keeper tried to come see me after the game too and still aggressive but got stopped by one of his players!!