• Welcome to the ShrimperZone forums.
    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which only gives you limited access.

    Existing Users:.
    Please log-in using your existing username and password. If you have any problems, please see below.

    New Users:
    Join our free community now and gain access to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and free. Click here to join.

    Fans from other clubs
    We welcome and appreciate supporters from other clubs who wish to engage in sensible discussion. Please feel free to join as above but understand that this is a moderated site and those who cannot play nicely will be quickly removed.

    Assistance Required
    For help with the registration process or accessing your account, please send a note using the Contact us link in the footer, please include your account name. We can then provide you with a new password and verification to get you on the site.

How do we as Fans stop it happening again?

Kent Shrimper

Mike Reid
Joined
May 27, 2004
Messages
6,910
Location
Sevenoaks
It would seem that in different guises everyone agrees that the way Ron has handled the past 12 months isn't on, the treatment of staff, fans, players, the once good name of SUFC have all been hammered in one way or another.

Now we also know that we are stuck with Ron, so my question is, How do we stop it happening again or how do we at least influence it not happening again. This isn't an Anti or Pro Ron slagging match, i am genuinely interested what we can do? As i believe we do need to do something?

I suggested campaigning hard to get the Shrimpers Trust on the main board with voting rights, what are your suggestions so we dont go through it again? Before anyone says it, i know Ron holds all the cards but that is the defeatist attitude, lets have a brainstorm
 
There's little we can do to stop it happening again, it's a problem rife in football at the moment, but there are ways we can help.

I'd suggest the best way to help would be to fully support the Club itself, even if you do harbour an incessant hatred of Ron Martin. He's going nowhere, he's clung on to the club through what has been a tempestuous time and his grip has barely loosened, even if Sainsbury's are at the top of the cliff holding on to him by the cufflinks.

Support the club, keep attendances high, spend what you're willing to and, more importantly, understand the fragile situation we're in. If we're comfortably midtable in January, don't shout from the rooftops that Sturrock should go or money should be spent on some overrated striker when we have five already.

Oh, and keep those nectar points handy.
 
I'd be interested to hear what the Trust has to say. I'm guessing they have been fairly quiet as they didn't want to upset the chairman while he still owed them the £60k. Hopefully when (or if!) this is paid back they can become a bit more active on how the future of the club should be managed. As for voting rights on the board I don't think one vote against the chairman would make a difference but having someone on the board may make the goings on at that level more open and accessible to the Trusts members.
 
If we want to avoid getting into more cashflow problems then we as a Club need to keep our income above our expenditure. Because there obviously isn't any savings to pay bills so our wage bill, our tax bill and our general expenditure all comes out of the cash that we're getting in week-to-week.

I guess what we need to do as fans is to go to as many matches as we can, to encourage others to go and to spend as much as we can whilst at the ground (although with so much having been franchised out that will have a limited effect). In order to try to keep outgoings down we need to not encourage the Club to spend money it hasn't got, we need to keep expectations down to a minimium and if we do have a rough diamond that we find during the season then we need to not beg the Club to sign him to a long contract as it's these long contracts which have brought the Club to it's knees.
 
How do we as Fans stop it happening again?

Buy the club from Ron. That's the only answer. Then see if it is financially viable and if its not, work out what you could do differently to make it profitable.

From what Ive read on here there are enough experts who can help and it seems to be a simple case of buying really good players very cheaply who have always wanted to play for Southend United. Pay them very low wages but they won’t mind because they always wanted to play here.

Then you can fund all future developments by using the VAT money bought in on season ticket sales, whilst also keeping it in a little tin on the shelf so it’s ready to pay to the vat man when he comes calling.
 
Buy the club from Ron. That's the only answer. Then see if it is financially viable and if its not, work out what you could do differently to make it profitable.

From what Ive read on here there are enough experts who can help and it seems to be a simple case of buying really good players very cheaply who have always wanted to play for Southend United. Pay them very low wages but they won’t mind because they always wanted to play here.

Then you can fund all future developments by using the VAT money bought in on season ticket sales, whilst also keeping it in a little tin on the shelf so it’s ready to pay to the vat man when he comes calling.

Thats not really helpful mate, as i said at the start this isnt a thread for scoring points. Rather than knock the people who have a differing opinion (even if they are a bit wayward), why not give your input into how realistically we can stop this happening again. I get the impression that some people just think by us supporting the team that will help, unfortunately it wont. I do believe we need to keep the pressure on Ron so that continually he knows as a bunch of fans we are not mugs and we wont just lie down whilst he tramples over us. Thats not to say protests are the way forward, However how about a regular fans forum with Ron and a selection of fans containing a Trust Board member, SZ Owner, Anti Ron fan, Pro Ron Fan, etc, so he can get an idea of how we want our club shaped and what collectively we aren't happy with?
 
However how about a regular fans forum with Ron and a selection of fans containing a Trust Board member, SZ Owner, Anti Ron fan, Pro Ron Fan, etc, so he can get an idea of how we want our club shaped and what collectively we aren't happy with?

A very good idea, but unfortunately (and this isn't try to point score) RM believes it's not "our" club, it's "his club" as he so eloquently put it just over 4 weeks ago.

As it's now common knowledge I know for a fact the SZ owners were eager for a meeting with RM 2 months or so ago, but for various reasons (his operation & subsequent hospital stay/convalesence) this meeting never happened.

Could the trust use the unpaid £60k for some kind of bargaining power to try and get a seat on the board? I'm sure all it's members would need to vote for these funds to be waived for this to happen but it's could be a possible idea? Although, as I said the other day I honestly cannot see RM want to let a supporters representative into board meetings due to the rumours from the departing directors that all decisions go the way RM wants them to.

I think before any bridge-building can take place, RM needs to realise just how concerned we all are (& not dismiss us as not being able to understand the complexity of his deals and worry needlessly) and also come out and make a statement that show genuine contrition for all that's gone on, almost a slate wiping exercise as it were. However, as the Tilson exit/Sturrock appointment and yesterday's events have strangely proved, there are still far too many in our fanbase who blindly believe the "Keep Calm and Carry On" line pumped out by the club on it's contemptable official statements.
 
so my question is, How do we stop it happening again or how do we at least influence it not happening again.

I really don't see how any fans can stop it happening again.

Its all down to money at the end of the day and if we haven't got any fans with several million pounds to spare then effectively RM (or any other chairman/owner) can do exactly what he wants with HIS club.

Lets face facts, if RM had a spare £20M tucked away for the club we wouldn't have had any of the problems in the first place.
 
Thats not really helpful mate, as i said at the start this isnt a thread for scoring points. Rather than knock the people who have a differing opinion (even if they are a bit wayward), why not give your input into how realistically we can stop this happening again. I get the impression that some people just think by us supporting the team that will help, unfortunately it wont. I do believe we need to keep the pressure on Ron so that continually he knows as a bunch of fans we are not mugs and we wont just lie down whilst he tramples over us. Thats not to say protests are the way forward, However how about a regular fans forum with Ron and a selection of fans containing a Trust Board member, SZ Owner, Anti Ron fan, Pro Ron Fan, etc, so he can get an idea of how we want our club shaped and what collectively we aren't happy with?

your dead right KS it was a fairly rubbish post based on all the negativity we have had about Ron.
A fans forum is a great idea and a couple of years ago I think Ron would have been up for it. However Im not so sure that’s the case now. He obviously has a plan and I really think he wants the club to be a success.

As fans we can support the team, but above all be patient and not expect instant success. The club needs to be put on a secure financial footing before we can move forward, If the team and management and Ron, don’t have to worry about the supporters getting on their back then they can hopefully get on with doing their jobs.
 
A very good idea, but unfortunately (and this isn't try to point score) RM believes it's not "our" club, it's "his club" as he so eloquently put it just over 4 weeks ago.

As it's now common knowledge I know for a fact the SZ owners were eager for a meeting with RM 2 months or so ago, but for various reasons (his operation & subsequent hospital stay/convalesence) this meeting never happened.

Could the trust use the unpaid £60k for some kind of bargaining power to try and get a seat on the board? I'm sure all it's members would need to vote for these funds to be waived for this to happen but it's could be a possible idea? Although, as I said the other day I honestly cannot see RM want to let a supporters representative into board meetings due to the rumours from the departing directors that all decisions go the way RM wants them to.

I think before any bridge-building can take place, RM needs to realise just how concerned we all are (& not dismiss us as not being able to understand the complexity of his deals and worry needlessly) and also come out and make a statement that show genuine contrition for all that's gone on, almost a slate wiping exercise as it were. However, as the Tilson exit/Sturrock appointment and yesterday's events have strangely proved, there are still far too many in our fanbase who blindly believe the "Keep Calm and Carry On" line pumped out by the club on it's contemptable official statements.

the meetiong is a very good idea IMO. Just becasue it has not happened so far does not mean that the interested parties should not press for it. How much Ron is preapared to say reamins to be seen. In fairness there will be info that he will not be prepared to divoldge unless he is 100% confident that it will not get into the public domain.

Personally if someone is seen on the boards as either anti Ron, or very level headed told me ; Ron explained why the players were not paid ' I now understand why the course of action was taken and agree with it' - that would do for me , I don't feel that I would need to know the full details.
 
If the team and management and Ron, don't have to worry about the supporters getting on their back then they can hopefully get on with doing their jobs.

I fear that will not be the case this season.
The first run of bad results and the moans will be far louder than ever before, even the bad old days of Jobson/Whelan/Martin/Little. The whole goodwill that most people had for the Tilson regime has evaporated and other than a few hardy souls who are excited about the Sturrock revolution, I think you'll see this in terms of crowd reaction.
 
Become a multi billionaire, buy the Club and run it as you deem correct !
 
It would seem that in different guises everyone agrees that the way Ron has handled the past 12 months isn't on, the treatment of staff, fans, players, the once good name of SUFC have all been hammered in one way or another.

Now we also know that we are stuck with Ron, so my question is, How do we stop it happening again or how do we at least influence it not happening again. This isn't an Anti or Pro Ron slagging match, i am genuinely interested what we can do? As i believe we do need to do something?

I suggested campaigning hard to get the Shrimpers Trust on the main board with voting rights, what are your suggestions so we dont go through it again? Before anyone says it, i know Ron holds all the cards but that is the defeatist attitude, lets have a brainstorm

CONTROVERSIAL POST ALERT

KS, whilst I admire the sentiment, you may as well ask "How we can get Ronaldo and Rooney to play for Southend?"

As fans, I think we all have to know our place in the football pyramid.

In the olden days, Fathers and sons populated the terraces to watch their local heroes play once a fortnight. Admission was (relatively) cheap and players played for the team they signed for. They got little financial reward and put their heart and soul into every match. Pride was they key but generally the most talented team won. However, other circumstances like pitches proved a leveller, and very often the lesser team would manage to hold or beat their more illustrious visitors because skill didn't count for much on mudbath pitches or when everywhere except the touchlines and penalty areas was covered in snow.

Players had short careers and were financially exploited by the club owners. The players earning capacity was over by mid 30's, and then many became just ordinary bods doing menial jobs to survive. Occasionally good players would go into management or coaching but many ended up on the dole and died poor.

Quite rightly, this wasn't fair and so the maximum wage was abolished and along came the scourge of the modern game; the agent. In the early days of representation, agents would pit player against player, player against club and club against club in order to secure the best deal for their client. The (usually) poorly educated player would just sit there and then go off to wherever his agent said he would and money became the driving force.

Bosman screwed the transfer system which was how lower league clubs survived; they had to find other ways of staying in existence and clearly many clubs have found it difficult. The fashion to spend spend spend and hope it all works out used to work because clubs could go into administration, get out of the debts they had incurred and start again. It became almost a deliberate tactic and eventually, after Leicester went into administration mid season but still got promoted, the authorities decided this was unfair and imposed penalties by way of points deductions. After Leeds flouted that rule by taking the points deduction when they were already relegated, the rules changed again to prevent clubs doing this. In League 2, there is a wage cap. In my opinion, before too long, this will apply across the board.

But then we all know that actually, as fans, our presence is not really wanted that much at grounds. SKY put the money into the game, so they want us to watch football on the TV. Over the last few years, ticket prices have gone up to levels that make it very expensive for Fathers and sons to go to every game and the introduction of all seater stadia has cut capacity everywhere. No longer do you have several division 1 attendances of 50,000 and over, the old Valley once held 77,000 for a game, West Ham regularly topped 40,000, but now the police bills are expensive, clubs are made responsible for their own fans trouble and actually many club owners would be deleriously happy if their matches were watched by everyone in an Executive box as this will be the way they extract most money from our pockets.

I've said before, Football is riding for a huge fall and this current trend cannot continue indefinitely. As a club, we could not compete in the CCC last time around because our competitors were in a different league. The first time we got there, we were able to survive because the other teams in that league included Cambridge United, Port Vale, Tranmere, Oxford, Swindon, Grimsby, Brighton, Bristol Rovers and Plymouth. That's 9 clubs of approximately the same size or smaller. In addition, there was Blackburn who were at the beginning of the Jack Walker era (prior to him they were typically a Division 3 team) and Derby, Sunderland, Middleborough, Leicester, Millwall and Barnsley who were still in their old or undeveloped stadiums.

When we last got to the CCC we only had Colchester, Plymouth and Luton who were anywhere near us in size, and Col U had their new stadium in the offing whilst Plymouth had greatly improved Home Park.

Even then, Col U won't be able to compete at that level again unless Cowling keeps stumping up cash as their ground only holds a few thousand at it's full capacity, which isn't enough to generate the income needed to survive at that level.

So, as fans like me, who have supported the Blues for over 40 years, we are the most loyal things in the game. We are also the least important. The game will go on whether we watch it or not. If we shun our club, our club dies; simple as that.

In short, the only metaphorical voice we have is to vote with our feet. Some may feel that principled to do so but I don't. There are times when I am more enthusiastic than others to go to a match but generally speaking the club has been a big part of my life since I was 8 and there have been several owners, managers and players that have come and gone. I haven't.

The biggest thing as fans we can do is accept that we are purely spectators and we have no rights at all over what happens with the club we support.
 
I fear that will not be the case this season.
The first run of bad results and the moans will be far louder than ever before, even the bad old days of Jobson/Whelan/Martin/Little. The whole goodwill that most people had for the Tilson regime has evaporated and other than a few hardy souls who are excited about the Sturrock revolution, I think you'll see this in terms of crowd reaction.

Why wait? You started two weeks ago...
 
Hey Chaps!

I think it's important that the fans are taken as a 'serious outfit' rather than just a bunch of odious riff raff.
With this in mind, it would be quite effective to drag one of the backroom staff to somewhere highly visible, say, the car park and give them a damn good shoeing.

The trick is to select a high profile enough member of the staff for it to be taken seriously. It's no good beating the snot out of a food vendor, or one of the toilet cleaners, because no-one will give a ****.

Any suggestions as to who it should be? I'll nominate one of the Bluebelles.

Kind Regards
 
CONTROVERSIAL POST ALERT


The biggest thing as fans we can do is accept that we are purely spectators and we have no rights at all over what happens with the club we support.

FBM, i cant mate, whilst i have a tongue in my head i will question, hound and harass if i feel the club is being mismanaged. Like you i have supported the club for a long time and i don't see why i cant ask the questions that i want answers to, and maybe come up with a possible solution of how it can be fixed. I don't think i will ever accept that im just a spectator.
 
FBM, i cant mate, whilst i have a tongue in my head i will question, hound and harass if i feel the club is being mismanaged. Like you i have supported the club for a long time and i don't see why i cant ask the questions that i want answers to, and maybe come up with a possible solution of how it can be fixed. I don't think i will ever accept that im just a spectator.

I think we need to ensure we ask the questions when the going is good, rather than when the going is bad.

We shouldn't be asking where the money for new signings is, but rather where's the money being kept aside for a rainy day.

Think of the club like an ocean-liner, you have to start steering before you're about to hit the iceberg. I don't think the problem was the handling of the club when we had no money. As disastrous as last season was, the issue was the three seasons preceding it. This was when we needed to be changing course (and shedding costs) as it was the result of those three seasons that left Ron with his hands tied. Most of the complaints over last season were over things that Ron by then had little control over.

Above all the main thing we can do is turn up in numbers and hand over our cash at the gates/non-working mobile-phone booking systems.

That isn't much, but I think that's the most we can do.
 
This is not even a conversation. Ron didn't listen when we were being dragged through the mire and arguably needed us the most...Why would he listen now that things have straightened up (real or illusion).

As other posters have already said, the only way to make a difference is buy the club or get a voting share (as a board member) in the club.....Both expensive options.

Rons made it quite clear that it is "his" club and he will run it as he see's fit. Even if that does mean not paying players and dragging us through court disputes.....He didn't care about the uproar back then, so my guess is he is too thick skinned to listen to our opinions on "lessons learnt" and "what can we do to stop this happening again"......If you ask him, he'd probably ask us to all buy season tickets, spend £50 a month on club merchandise, and make sure we invest in all of SUFC's sideshow schemes that pop up every now and then.
 
I heard that a place on the board was all part of the agreement when the trust lent the 60k.
 
I have a question ?

What would people be saying re Ron now if , and I appreciate that it is a big IF, last seasons financial termoil was exactly the same, yet we managed to gain promotion ?? ie Players not paid on time, court appearances etc etc ...... would the fury still be the same ? Or the fact that we had a successful season on the pitch, outweigh the huge difficulties off of it ?

What is important to fans, success on the pitch compared to the close season we've had this year. & please be honest !!

(milestone 500th post for me , only taken four years !!)
 
Last edited:
Back
Top