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How long?

* ORM *

Emma Bunton's No. 1 stalker, Adam Barretts No. 1 f
Joined
Nov 7, 2003
Messages
17,850
Location
Flying the flag for SUFC in Sai Kung, Hong Kong
Yes I’m starting a divisive thread. As a fan for 48 years (but it doesn’t actually matter if it is 48 minutes) I feel entitled enough to post some opinions that many of those currently fawning over what’s happening off the field and blowing smoke up Stan’s backside/massaging his fragile ego, call it what you will.

I want the current infrastructure to succeed I really do. Kevin Maher is my favourite SUFC player of all time bar none. We have an off the field structure that many of the teams in League One and Two can only dream of. We also have a wage bill that I’m guessing many would be jealous of.

For every person that says give it time I give you Darlington FC. What a fabulous new ground that was and solved all their problems.

For everyone that says we’re too good to go down (not many by now I’m sure) I give you Stockport (who are now back), York and a number of others.

Status means nothing. Points mean everything. It is abundantly clear to everyone that the current squad is not good enough and that’s with two exceptionally good loan players.

So the serious question is how long do we stay patient and wait for the new team to work their magic? The longer we stay in our current position the harder it will be to get out of it whatever squad we end up with. The history of this division backs that up sharply.

You might think I’m a doom monger but I remember seeing a glossy picture of a new stadium on the inside cover of match programmes as far back as 1981. Yes 40 years ago. Admittedly there wasn’t much substance and certainly no planning or funding apart from the threats of moving to Basildon.

Until the first digger moves in to FF quite frankly I’ll believe it when I see it. Untold years of FF poo attests to that fact. Quite frankly our current infrastructure would not be supported in National League South. Chester City anyone.

Am I hitting the panic button? Too ****ing right I am. I’m sick of people being closed down for offering contrary views. This is not China (give that another 50 years or so).

To answer my own question I’m prepared not to post another comment here on signings and structure until a couple of weeks into January by which time we still need to be in touching distance of 4th and 5th from bottom which is very possible even with just one win and a draw.

Points mean prizes, what do we points mean?
 

dannypav

President
Joined
Dec 14, 2011
Messages
5,756
Your inflammatory language suggests that you're not willing to have a constructive conversation and you're just posting because of whatever axe you have to grind.

This is an utterly pointless thread.
Why do you consider the post to be pointless ?
Genuine question.
The poster is clearly a long standing fan and like many , is genuinely concerned for his club.
I've stopped posting recently for various reasons, but also share his concern.
I think the recent off field appointments instigated by Stan and/or the CEO are potentially positive and I also think we need to give the new team ( off field) more time to implement the changes we all want.
Am I convinced we will stop the rot this season - no I'm not.
Will failure ( which for me is relegation) be down to Maher and Co- in my opinion no.
But , like the poster , I refuse to go overboard in the praise being lavished on some.
I hope things start to turn around , but time will tell.
We can hand out the crowns and medals then - no need to do that now.
 

Barling Magna

President⭐
Joined
Dec 14, 2010
Messages
7,917
Just letting off steam I reckon. How long? We need to be safe from relegation, preferably before the last match of the season. Whilst Dover and Kings Lynn look doomed, Aldershot have got their act together. So we need to gather points soon or we'll be adrift in the relegation zone. No need to panic yet.
 

* ORM *

Emma Bunton's No. 1 stalker, Adam Barretts No. 1 f
Joined
Nov 7, 2003
Messages
17,850
Location
Flying the flag for SUFC in Sai Kung, Hong Kong
I
Your inflammatory language suggests that you're not willing to have a constructive conversation and you're just posting because of whatever axe you have to grind.

This is an utterly pointless thread.
The case for the prosecution rests. Flamed with the first response to it. I’m not going to get drawn into a debate but if people cannot accept that others don’t have the same view as them it kind of explains the two sides of Brexit and the Biden/Trump antics.

Society has got infinitely worse over the last 10-15 years. I fundamentally disagree with many things in life but just because someone has a different opinion to mine it doesn’t mean they are right or I am right. Life doesn’t have to be so black and white that if you’re on the other side of a fence with a common purpose of wanting the club to succeed you’re treated like a pariah for having a less than mainstream opinion.

Your response is more likely to have the Mods reaching for the close button because instead of answering the question you have attempted to set a tone.

I set out a contrary view and posted some thoughts around that. I posted a question and even gave my own answer to the same question.

I’m not expecting 5,000 likes but the first response is typical of recent zone behaviour of I disagree therefore the other person must be wrong.

and I’ve just realised I failed in my comment not to post again on this subject until mid Jan so I’ll now turn that into a faithful promise.
 
Last edited:

Strykr

Manager
Joined
May 19, 2008
Messages
4,615
Location
Eastbored
Yes I’m starting a divisive thread. As a fan for 48 years (but it doesn’t actually matter if it is 48 minutes) I feel entitled enough to post some opinions that many of those currently fawning over what’s happening off the field and blowing smoke up Stan’s backside/massaging his fragile ego, call it what you will.

I want the current infrastructure to succeed I really do. Kevin Maher is my favourite SUFC player of all time bar none. We have an off the field structure that many of the teams in League One and Two can only dream of. We also have a wage bill that I’m guessing many would be jealous of.

For every person that says give it time I give you Darlington FC. What a fabulous new ground that was and solved all their problems.

For everyone that says we’re too good to go down (not many by now I’m sure) I give you Stockport (who are now back), York and a number of others.

Status means nothing. Points mean everything. It is abundantly clear to everyone that the current squad is not good enough and that’s with two exceptionally good loan players.

So the serious question is how long do we stay patient and wait for the new team to work their magic? The longer we stay in our current position the harder it will be to get out of it whatever squad we end up with. The history of this division backs that up sharply.

You might think I’m a doom monger but I remember seeing a glossy picture of a new stadium on the inside cover of match programmes as far back as 1981. Yes 40 years ago. Admittedly there wasn’t much substance and certainly no planning or funding apart from the threats of moving to Basildon.

Until the first digger moves in to FF quite frankly I’ll believe it when I see it. Untold years of FF poo attests to that fact. Quite frankly our current infrastructure would not be supported in National League South. Chester City anyone.

Am I hitting the panic button? Too ****ing right I am. I’m sick of people being closed down for offering contrary views. This is not China (give that another 50 years or so).

To answer my own question I’m prepared not to post another comment here on signings and structure until a couple of weeks into January by which time we still need to be in touching distance of 4th and 5th from bottom which is very possible even with just one win and a draw.

Points mean prizes, what do we points mean?

Id say end of january, if we are still losing every week then questions need to be asked.

The new structure is a long term vision that im totally on board with, but (and i cant believe im even saying this) we need to preserve our non/national league status. Or all these changes have just been a waste of time.
 

Cultist of Sooty

Social Distance Warrior
Joined
Apr 20, 2010
Messages
687
Case for the prosecution? Who do you think you are? You do know this isn't a court of law, right?

You started with "those currently fawning over what’s happening off the field and blowing smoke up Stan’s backside/massaging his fragile ego". You quite clearly came in trying to pick a fight from the very start.

You're not looking for an honest conversation, you're trying to start a row. I've wasted enough time on you already. Life's too short.

Take a good look at yourself and try doing something useful and constructive instead of wasting everyone's time with this drivel.
 

danbowen

Youth Team
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
Messages
447
I 100% agree with ORM. I feel like Stans big thing of wait and see what happens this week or whatever the wording was is more pointed at the John Still appointment rather than a new signing or two. We are so desperately in need of signings yet although we have all these people in different jobs it isnt clear what the structure is. If John Still is coming in with a good eye for players and Stan has this never ending contact list he can ring up and be laughed at on when he asks for help then is there any point of Anton Robinson? laughable that he is even still here! We need a full time physio too so why not replace Robinson with one of these.

There are some fans who say give them time blah blah yet how much time do we realistically have before it is too late. The same fans saying how lucky we are to have Stan but ultimately I will be judging this on what he does not what he says especially as he has never done a role remotely like what he is doing now and as it stands since he has joined all I can judge him on is his way of arguing with fans on here who dont agree with everything he says. With regards to the management team I want nothing more than them to succeed more so than normal as Maher is one of my favourite players but 1 win in 6 is really not good regardless of who we have played as most of the games have been toothless and we havent really been a threat most of the time.

I honestly want the club to succeed but we need fresh players in more than anything right now - look at the impact the Sheff Utd lads had. We need a bite in the middle of the park who will break up play - someone like Deegan.

Most of all - i want a team that each week i can be proud of watching walk off the pitch win, lose or draw and the vast majority of time it is painful and depressing.
 

Bexley Blue

My butt's for sitting, not for kissing⭐
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
5,555
Location
Bexleyheath, Greater London
The case for the prosecution rests. Flamed with the first response to it. I’m not going to get drawn into a debate but if people cannot accept that others don’t have the same view as them it kind of explains the two sides of Brexit and the Biden/Trump antics.

Society has got infinitely worse over the last 10-15 years. I fundamentally disagree with many things in life but just because someone has a different opinion to mine it doesn’t mean they are right or I am right. Life doesn’t have to be so black and white that if you’re on the other side of a fence with a common purpose of wanting the club to succeed you’re treated like a pariah for having a less than mainstream opinion.

Your response is more likely to have the Mods reaching for the close button because instead of answering the question you have attempted to set a tone.

I set out a contrary view and posted some thoughts around that. I posted a question and even gave my own answer to the same question.

I’m not expecting 5,000 likes but the first response is typical of recent zone behaviour of I disagree therefore the other person must be wrong.

and I’ve just realised I failed in my comment not to post again on this subject until mid Jan so I’ll now turn that into a faithful promise.
You might actually have a leg to stand on here, if the opening paragraph of your first post didn't contain the inflammatory line: "...that many of those currently fawning over what’s happening off the field and blowing smoke up Stan’s backside/massaging his fragile ego...". Straight into doing what you're moaning about others doing, and it comes across as you being deliberately divisive and on a wind-up. Lets you down a bit when you had some perfectly valid arguments in there.

Yes action is needed now and another relegation would be horrendous, but again......it does seem like an awful lot of people are near-enough advocating making signings for the sake of it, closing eyes and hoping that they are decent like we have for the past few seasons rather than taking a bit more time to ensure. For as long as there are plenty of points to play for and we are not yet cut adrift, I don't see an issue with this. The argument seems to be between those who are looking short term and those who would like the club to get a structure, culture and identity in place and to think more medium to long term. We've done the short term quick fixes, so time to try the other approach. If we carried on the way we were then we were heading down anyway, so why not give it a shot?

I 100% agree with ORM. I feel like Stans big thing of wait and see what happens this week or whatever the wording was is more pointed at the John Still appointment rather than a new signing or two. We are so desperately in need of signings yet although we have all these people in different jobs it isnt clear what the structure is. If John Still is coming in with a good eye for players and Stan has this never ending contact list he can ring up and be laughed at on when he asks for help then is there any point of Anton Robinson? laughable that he is even still here! We need a full time physio too so why not replace Robinson with one of these.

There are some fans who say give them time blah blah yet how much time do we realistically have before it is too late. The same fans saying how lucky we are to have Stan but ultimately I will be judging this on what he does not what he says especially as he has never done a role remotely like what he is doing now and as it stands since he has joined all I can judge him on is his way of arguing with fans on here who dont agree with everything he says. With regards to the management team I want nothing more than them to succeed more so than normal as Maher is one of my favourite players but 1 win in 6 is really not good regardless of who we have played as most of the games have been toothless and we havent really been a threat most of the time.

I honestly want the club to succeed but we need fresh players in more than anything right now - look at the impact the Sheff Utd lads had. We need a bite in the middle of the park who will break up play - someone like Deegan.

Most of all - i want a team that each week i can be proud of watching walk off the pitch win, lose or draw and the vast majority of time it is painful and depressing.
That's exactly what Stan was getting at, and that's how most people read it.

We are in need of good signings that have been thoroughly scouted, are affordable and who the club is confident will improve the squad. What we are not in desperate need of is panicky, quick fix-style signings just because they are available, without due diligence having been done, as that is just repeating the same mistakes that have gotten us here.

Maybe the structure isn't clear to you but it seems like it is to the people working within it, and I'm sure fans will be given more info on it soon.

Again, similar to ORM, why are you posting comments like "contacts he can ring and be laughed at"? Sneering, snidey, disrespectful and just generally unnecessary. A pretty good indication to me that many of the people that have posted "contrarian views" are actually people who have a pre-existing dislike for and agenda against Stan Collymore. I don't agree with all of his politics or with everything that he says in the press/on social media, but it doesn't make me dislike him or salivate at the thought of him failing in his position here.

Kev quite likes Robinson and is happy for him to stay on at the moment.

We will all judge him on what he does, but it's completely unfair to judge him, as you are doing, after 3 weeks.

Love how you've twisted that. What was there to agree or disagree with him on? He told us what he had been up to in his first 3 weeks on the job, and you and others jumped down his throat and accused him of "not delivering what was promised".....3 weeks into what could be a 2-year project. If it was as simple as "arguing because people didn't agree with him" then it might not have turned so unsavoury.

Hmmmm........anybody would think that the quality of the players at Maher's disposal was the main issue!

Again, we would all love that, but what you're asking for cannot be summoned at the click of a finger. You need to get into the real world.
 

danbowen

Youth Team
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
Messages
447
You might actually have a leg to stand on here, if the opening paragraph of your first post didn't contain the inflammatory line: "...that many of those currently fawning over what’s happening off the field and blowing smoke up Stan’s backside/massaging his fragile ego...". Straight into doing what you're moaning about others doing, and it comes across as you being deliberately divisive and on a wind-up. Lets you down a bit when you had some perfectly valid arguments in there.

Yes action is needed now and another relegation would be horrendous, but again......it does seem like an awful lot of people are near-enough advocating making signings for the sake of it, closing eyes and hoping that they are decent like we have for the past few seasons rather than taking a bit more time to ensure. For as long as there are plenty of points to play for and we are not yet cut adrift, I don't see an issue with this. The argument seems to be between those who are looking short term and those who would like the club to get a structure, culture and identity in place and to think more medium to long term. We've done the short term quick fixes, so time to try the other approach. If we carried on the way we were then we were heading down anyway, so why not give it a shot?


That's exactly what Stan was getting at, and that's how most people read it.

We are in need of good signings that have been thoroughly scouted, are affordable and who the club is confident will improve the squad. What we are not in desperate need of is panicky, quick fix-style signings just because they are available, without due diligence having been done, as that is just repeating the same mistakes that have gotten us here.

Maybe the structure isn't clear to you but it seems like it is to the people working within it, and I'm sure fans will be given more info on it soon.

Again, similar to ORM, why are you posting comments like "contacts he can ring and be laughed at"? Sneering, snidey, disrespectful and just generally unnecessary. A pretty good indication to me that many of the people that have posted "contrarian views" are actually people who have a pre-existing dislike for and agenda against Stan Collymore. I don't agree with all of his politics or with everything that he says in the press/on social media, but it doesn't make me dislike him or salivate at the thought of him failing in his position here.

Kev quite likes Robinson and is happy for him to stay on at the moment.

We will all judge him on what he does, but it's completely unfair to judge him, as you are doing, after 3 weeks.

Love how you've twisted that. What was there to agree or disagree with him on? He told us what he had been up to in his first 3 weeks on the job, and you and others jumped down his throat and accused him of "not delivering what was promised".....3 weeks into what could be a 2-year project. If it was as simple as "arguing because people didn't agree with him" then it might not have turned so unsavoury.

Hmmmm........anybody would think that the quality of the players at Maher's disposal was the main issue!

Again, we would all love that, but what you're asking for cannot be summoned at the click of a finger. You need to get into the real world.
And you need to see it from the other perspective. You are clearly one of these fans who thinks Stan is the messiah and will single handedly save us. Wow he got a director of football in but what we need is players and how can he have spoke to over 100 clubs and not got us anyone. He said clubs are willing and wanting the help us in the zoom well go on then stan prove it. You also mention the quality of the players is the main issue so getting one or two in now for the lead us to the transfer window is not going to harm us when they can step in for some of our poor performers. After all are they really going to do any worse than some of them? Maybe they will help us get a few extra points in the 8 games or whatever it is before January which we desperately need. As the saying goes a week is a long time in football - we have had 3 now. We have players out on loan who look good enough to be given a bit of a chance too who have a bit of creativity.
Ultimately the team is no where near good enough at the moment and we need to move sharper than what we currently are and just because not everyone is looking at the situation through rose tinted glasses it doesn’t make them wrong. Stan should be judged on what he does not what he says which is how a vast majority of fans on here are doing at the moment. I could make loads of phone calls etc but we need results not just gloating about this is how many calls I have made and fans go oh how great are you doing this - no one even knows what conversations he is actually having. It should be this is what I’ve done and this is what I have achieved - out of the 110 clubs I spoke to - 90 said they can’t help at the moment, 5 said they want to wait until January to see what interest their is in their players and the other 15 have sent us a list of available players that we are scouting. That is what the communication should be. On the zooms (have another listen) how many times does he say the same thing ie about his contact book and the time he spent in the game etc. It is clever communication to make you think he is everything we need but that judgement should be made depending on his performance.

I wish him the best along with everyone at the club but I just think some people need to take a step back and look at where we really are and understand we do not have loads of time like people are willing to give them all.
 

southendkid

Director⭐
Joined
Aug 8, 2010
Messages
4,959
If this doesn't work then what's the alternative? If with the people we've now got we can't convince any decent players to take a chance on us who could we feasibly bring in that could get the players we need through the door? Ultimately we do not have a good reputation in football, if the current team can turn that reputation around then fantastic, if they can't then I think we're doomed no matter who is in charge.
 
Joined
Jul 20, 2017
Messages
286
Why are so many obsessed with what Collymore does or doesn't do? Or think? Not knocking him but it reads like how some Labour people react to Jeremy Corben. One person isn't going to turn the club around.
 
Joined
Jul 3, 2014
Messages
682
Your inflammatory language suggests that you're not willing to have a constructive conversation and you're just posting because of whatever axe you have to grind.

This is an utterly pointless thread.
It is only pointless if one denies alternative points of view. Which, of course, many do. Worse that many would prefer to stifle debate.
 

Bexley Blue

My butt's for sitting, not for kissing⭐
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
5,555
Location
Bexleyheath, Greater London
And you need to see it from the other perspective. You are clearly one of these fans who thinks Stan is the messiah and will single handedly save us. Wow he got a director of football in but what we need is players and how can he have spoke to over 100 clubs and not got us anyone. He said clubs are willing and wanting the help us in the zoom well go on then stan prove it. You also mention the quality of the players is the main issue so getting one or two in now for the lead us to the transfer window is not going to harm us when they can step in for some of our poor performers. After all are they really going to do any worse than some of them? Maybe they will help us get a few extra points in the 8 games or whatever it is before January which we desperately need. As the saying goes a week is a long time in football - we have had 3 now. We have players out on loan who look good enough to be given a bit of a chance too who have a bit of creativity.
Ultimately the team is no where near good enough at the moment and we need to move sharper than what we currently are and just because not everyone is looking at the situation through rose tinted glasses it doesn’t make them wrong. Stan should be judged on what he does not what he says which is how a vast majority of fans on here are doing at the moment. I could make loads of phone calls etc but we need results not just gloating about this is how many calls I have made and fans go oh how great are you doing this - no one even knows what conversations he is actually having. It should be this is what I’ve done and this is what I have achieved - out of the 110 clubs I spoke to - 90 said they can’t help at the moment, 5 said they want to wait until January to see what interest their is in their players and the other 15 have sent us a list of available players that we are scouting. That is what the communication should be. On the zooms (have another listen) how many times does he say the same thing ie about his contact book and the time he spent in the game etc. It is clever communication to make you think he is everything we need but that judgement should be made depending on his performance.

I wish him the best along with everyone at the club but I just think some people need to take a step back and look at where we really are and understand we do not have loads of time like people are willing to give them all.
You haven't properly read my post. At no stage have I suggested anybody is the Messiah, and nor do I think it. Why can't I just be seen as neutral, which is what I am - i.e. able to acknowledge that things will take time and feeling able/trusting to give that time? Why is anybody who takes that position "rose-tinted", or "fawning", or "blowing smoke up Stan's arse"? Grow up.

I'm going to turn your last paragraph around. You're right - people do need to take a step back and look at where we are. You and others need to realise that the club needs to take the time necessary to get new signings right, and cannot repeat the mistakes of the past 3-4 years, which is a bigger risk with your advocated approach.
 

Bexley Blue

My butt's for sitting, not for kissing⭐
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
5,555
Location
Bexleyheath, Greater London
If this doesn't work then what's the alternative? If with the people we've now got we can't convince any decent players to take a chance on us who could we feasibly bring in that could get the players we need through the door? Ultimately we do not have a good reputation in football, if the current team can turn that reputation around then fantastic, if they can't then I think we're doomed no matter who is in charge.
An excellent point which is not made enough.

Lots of people on here, as you'd expect on a forum, are backseat club chairmen/CEOs - but what approach do they think would be better, and what makes it better than this one? If this lot can't turn us around then we're ****ed.

Nobody has given me any good reason not to trust in the people who are now populating our new structure to get things right- least of all the people in those positions themselves, especially after only 3 weeks. I certainly don't think @danbowen or anybody else on here could do a better job or come up with a better alternative.
 
Last edited:

Justleavingwork

Striker
Joined
Jun 29, 2018
Messages
146
Seem the structure is being looked at, this will take a couple of seasons to resolve, whereas on the playing side I would estimate around 2-3 months for a turn around. Obviously tougher when a previous manager signed a load of old tosh and helped beat the confidence down
 

fbm

Blue tinted optimist⭐
Joined
Oct 28, 2003
Messages
8,947
Location
Cloud cuckoo land
For every person that says give it time I give you Darlington FC. What a fabulous new ground that was and solved all their problems.
Of the points you made, I don't agree with this one. To anyone who knows Darlington, the demographic is such that I doubt there is an event of any description that could have got anywhere near filling The Reynolds Arena. A stadium half the size would have been sufficient.

And there are many other examples of new stadiums launching clubs of a similar size to us further up the footballing stratosphere... Reading, Swansea, Wigan, even Doncaster... but it's not just about having a new stadium, the club has to be run properly. Darlington wasn't, and up to now, neither have we been.

Crucially, that is the one area that Stan HAS been able to affect positive change in... we now have a structure fit for purpose going forwards. The structure will allow the team to develop as it progresses and make changes in part and not rely on the wholesale "Demolish and start again" actions that have been so evident over the last few years.

And no-one has a crystal ball. No one knew that either Stan or Freddy Eastwood would be the saviours they were. No-one knew that Barry Fry or Steve Thompson would be the managers that would turn those seasons around.

Despite our perilous position, I personally don't believe we are in danger of further relegation this season. The reason for this is that we are not hampered by a transfer window and we will just continue to bring in people until the rot stops. There are easily 2 teams worse than us, plus Dover.

Even though the results have not changed much, I am starting to see positive changes in the performances and I thought we were very unlucky to lose at Grimsby. We are still a work in progress but from this starting point, survival and mid table is a very realistic and attainable target.

Stability going forwards is the only way. If PB's decisions had not been so disastrous, then Stan wouldn't have felt the need to get involved. He has been the one that has been the biggest catalyst for change. That I think we have to thank him for... I cannot see any downside to this new arrangement. If we have any ambitions to be an EFL club again and to grace the Championship again one day, then we have to have a structure that allows that to happen in the modern world. I believe this is what we now have.
 

JackT77

Striker
Joined
Apr 22, 2021
Messages
204
Don’t really understand those against Stan. Ultimately he spoke with passion and a clear focus on where he thought the club should be and how to get there. Right now he is a few weeks into moving the club in that direction. What have you guys seen that I haven’t to have this dislike for him already?

Sure in 6 months I’d agree with you if nothing had changed but right now I can’t see what’s driving it.
 

JB Shrimper

Youth Team
Joined
Jun 22, 2010
Messages
382
Think the point here is getting lost. Regardless of your point of view on how long it will take to turn things around. Those who have an opposing view to the masses get immediately lambasted by loads of people on this site, normally with name calling and sarcasm. This winds people up and often they fight back to defend themselves only to be called toxic or trolls. Don't get me wrong there is a few trolls on here but the shear abuse from the "popular opinion" crew is just as unacceptable.

Debate don't defame!
 
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