Jeremy Corbyn's Labour

[Ricky Otto]

Labour is now the largest Social Democrat party in Europe with a mass membership that the Tories can only dream of.All the young people who've joined Labour since Corbyn was elected leader didn't join up because they wanted "a centralist party." If they'd wanted that they could have joned the LIB/Dems. Wait a minute.

You can act all know it all but you have a notorious track record for getting things wrong on here, you even have your own hashtag! I'll happily wager that Corbyn will never be PM with money paid to SZ in the event that he does become PM or the labour party has a new leader.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Now talking about over 20 Labour MP's - Vince Cable will either back this up or will look very foolish indeed.
TBH, he has never struck me as a fool.

I think there are two versions of this - yesterday the Metro quoted Vince saying 6+ Labour MPs were to join him in a new party.

Today they quote him as saying 26 Labour & Tory MPs are joining him in an anti Brexit bloc as a new party would be 'crushed' at the ballot box.

Either Metro are changing their story or he is.

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

I think there are two versions of this - yesterday the Metro quoted Vince saying 6+ Labour MPs were to join him in a new party.

Today they quote him as saying 26 Labour & Tory MPs are joining him in an anti Brexit bloc as a new party would be 'crushed' at the ballot box.

Either Metro are changing their story or he is.

Neither to be fair, the article yesterday quoted him saying 6 was at the very lower end of MP's he thought would come from Labour and today he mentions 26 with tories thrown in if a no deal goes through.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

You can act all know it all but you have a notorious track record for getting things wrong on here, you even have your own hashtag! I'll happily wager that Corbyn will never be PM with money paid to SZ in the event that he does become PM or the labour party has a new leader.

I'll happily bet you a tenner (loser pays SZ) that Labour will win the next general election in the UK held in or before 2022 if Corbyn remains leader. If Labour elect a new leader before then logically I'd want to see who it is before I accept the bet.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I seem to remember that being tried back in the 80's with the SDP.That didn't go to well,did it? This is a total non-starter.If you want a different government to the Tories, you'll have to vote Labour (when you next get the chance).

The fact that someone cocked something up once doesnt mean it cant work ever. Macron is just as relevant as an example and he made it into power.

In principle then, it clearly is a starter rather than a non-starter - but as with any project successful implementation relies on correctly identifying the precise requirements (of disaffected centre ground voters), forming the correct solutions to deliver on those requirements (policies), communicating effectively throughout and delivering the required behavioural change activity alongside any systemic change.

 

[Ricky Otto]

I'll happily bet you a tenner (loser pays SZ) that Labour will win the next general election in the UK held in or before 2022 if Corbyn remains leader. If Labour elect a new leader before then logically I'd want to see who it is before I accept the bet.

I think you have misunderstood my bet. My proposed bet was Corbyn would not be PM as he is too far left, so if he is replaced as leader without him becoming PM then I have won the bet.

I thought from your posts you were very confident the membership was behind Corbyn and he would not be replaced, hence the proposed bet.

If you aren't happy with those terms it is fine, we'll leave it

 

[blues exile]

I think you have misunderstood my bet. My proposed bet was Corbyn would not be PM as he is too far left, so if he is replaced as leader without him becoming PM then I have won the bet.

I thought from your posts you were very confident the membership was behind Corbyn and he would not be replaced, hence the proposed bet.

If you aren't happy with those terms it is fine, we'll leave it

It would be enlightening to know why you state Corbyn is 'too far left'. What specifically in the GE manifesto of 2017 falls into that category?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I think you have misunderstood my bet. My proposed bet was Corbyn would not be PM as he is too far left, so if he is replaced as leader without him becoming PM then I have won the bet.

I thought from your posts you were very confident the membership was behind Corbyn and he would not be replaced, hence the proposed bet.

If you aren't happy with those terms it is fine, we'll leave it

Yes I am convinced that the vast majority of the Labour party membership is fully behind Jeremy Corbyn.No,I'm not happy with the terms you propose.I agreed to bet that Labour would win the next general election in the UK any time between now and 2022 as long as Corbyn remains leader. If he retires or stands down (he won't be deposed) the bet's off.Over to you.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

The fact that someone ****ed something up once doesnt mean it cant work ever. Macron is just as relevant as an example and he made it into power.

In principle then, it clearly is a starter rather than a non-starter - but as with any project successful implementation relies on correctly identifying the precise requirements (of disaffected centre ground voters), forming the correct solutions to deliver on those requirements (policies), communicating effectively throughout and delivering the required behavioural change activity alongside any systemic change.

There is much more chance of the ERG splitting from the Tories over the NI backstop or Tory remainers resigning over a no deal Brexit, than there is of any new breakaway party being formed from the PLP.

Macron is a poor example to quote,as in the UK we don't have presidential elections as they do in France.

The fact that the SDP failed so abjectly before,splitting Labour and keeping it out of power for so long, means that we won't see its like again anytime soon,if ever, in UK politics.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

There is much more chance of the ERG splitting from the Tories over the NI backstop, or Tory remainers resigning over a no deal Brexit, than there is of any new breakaway party being formed from the PLP.

Macron is a poor example to quote,as in the UK we don't have presidential elections as they do in France.

The fact that the SDP failed so abjectly before,splitting Labour and keeping it out of power for so long, means that we won't see its like again anytime soon,if ever, in UK politics.

I’m afraid I don’t agree with any of that analysis!

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I’m afraid I don’t agree with any of that analysis!

Feel free to disagree but some reasons in support of your own analysis would help.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Neither to be fair, the article yesterday quoted him saying 6 was at the very lower end of MP's he thought would come from Labour and today he mentions 26 with tories thrown in if a no deal goes through.

today he was talking about a Parliamentary bloc - so MP's agreeing to vote in a particular way, and much easier to get MPs to agreed to that, hence the higher numbers (though 26 between Labour and Tories is not massive) than to switch parties.

The article quoted him specifically saying that a new party would be 'crushed' at the ballot box. If they have quoted him accurately that is not the best language to persuade anyone to jump ship.

 

[Ricky Otto]

Yes I am convinced that the vast majority of the Labour party membership is fully behind Jeremy Corbyn.No,I'm not happy with the terms you propose.I agreed to bet that Labour would win the next general election in the UK any time between now and 2022 as long as Corbyn remains leader. If he retires or stands down (he won't be deposed) the bet's off.Over to you.

Ok that is fair enough, think it could be a void bet. I think Labour could win the next election, just not with Corbyn. So.....

Labour win next election with Corbyn = You win
Labour lose next election with Corbyn = I win

Any other scenario = Void

Right?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Ok that is fair enough, think it could be a void bet. I think Labour could win the next election, just not with Corbyn. So.....

Labour win next election with Corbyn = You win
Labour lose next election with Corbyn = I win

Any other scenario = Void

Right?

Yup.That sounds fair.The chances of a void bet must be reasonable I suppose.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

This is one for the Labour supporters. I know Dr Mike Galsworthy is primarily a pusher for a' 'people's vote but he has posted an article on FB concerning Labour’s leaky whip strategy. I can't get a link up for it (not yet on You Tube) but I wondered if anyone had read it and had any views to the validity of his theory?

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

This is one for the Labour supporters. I know Dr Mike Galsworthy is primarily a pusher for a' 'people's vote but he has posted an article on FB concerning Labour’s leaky whip strategy. I can't get a link up for it (not yet on You Tube) but I wondered if anyone had read it and had any views to the validity of his theory?

This should be in the Labour thread really - so it's off there to join its chums that are also Labour-centric

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

This should be in the Labour thread really - so it's off there to join its chums that are also Labour-centric

It certainly should, I did aim to put it in the Brexit thread but was mistaken! Ahhhhhhhhhh you've already moved it from the Brexit thread!!!!!!! OK, I think I'll go back to bed!

 

[GBJ]

Yes I am convinced that the vast majority of the Labour party membership is fully behind Jeremy Corbyn.No,I'm not happy with the terms you propose.I agreed to bet that Labour would win the next general election in the UK any time between now and 2022 as long as Corbyn remains leader. If he retires or stands down (he won't be deposed) the bet's off.Over to you.

That doesn’t make sense? You’ve been offered a specific wager, which is quite clear & concise.

Corbyn to be PM. If he is, you win. If he doesn’t, you lose. How more complicated could it be?

You wouldn’t go into the bookies and say, £10 on southend to win, IF Cox is playing, but if he’s not playing I want my bet voided.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

That doesn’t make sense? You’ve been offered a specific wager, which is quite clear & concise.

Corbyn to be PM. If he is, you win. If he doesn’t, you lose. How more complicated could it be?

You wouldn’t go into the bookies and say, £10 on southend to win, IF Cox is playing, but if he’s not playing I want my bet voided.

I'd certainly want to ( you can see I don't go to the bookies that often,though).

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

That doesn’t make sense? You’ve been offered a specific wager, which is quite clear & concise.

Corbyn to be PM. If he is, you win. If he doesn’t, you lose. How more complicated could it be?

You wouldn’t go into the bookies and say, £10 on southend to win, IF Cox is playing, but if he’s not playing I want my bet voided.

Surely in a bookies as well as on here you state your bet and they accept or decline to take it?
Ricky accepted so job done.