Long-term planning

[Pubey]

With our youth system starting to produce some gems... and apparently more in the pipeline, and some youngsters in our 1st team already, it seems that T&B (along with Ricky Duncan and Ron Martin) most underrated achievement is their longterm planning for the future. There has been much talk about panic-buys and perhaps that has been justified (although the counter-arguement is that many of Tillys signings have been smart). I believe that keeping hold of players like Francis, Moussa, Bailey, McCormack, Clarke... along with youngsters like Lokando, Herd, Forshaw etc means that Tillys legacy may only just have begun really and when we finally get back into the CCC, along with a new stadium... the groundwork that has been going on behind the scenes for the past few years will begin to pay off

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

With our youth system starting to produce some gems... and apparently more in the pipeline, and some youngsters in our 1st team already, it seems that T&B (along with Ricky Duncan and Ron Martin) most underrated achievement is their longterm planning for the future. There has been much talk about panic-buys and perhaps that has been justified (although the counter-arguement is that many of Tillys signings have been smart). I believe that keeping hold of players like Francis, Moussa, Bailey, McCormack, Clarke... along with youngsters like Lokando, Herd, Forshaw etc means that Tillys legacy may only just have begun really and when we finally get back into the CCC, along with a new stadium... the groundwork that has been going on behind the scenes for the past few years will begin to pay off

What gems has our youth system produced?

Moussa looks promising, but its questionable whether you can say our youth system produced him, at most we scouted him.

The others could easily be the next David McSweeneys.

 

[Up the Shrimpers]

Apart from the FA Youth Cup, I'm not sure the youth team's results have been that good this season, anyone got any details?

 

[Pubey]

What gems has our youth system produced?

Moussa looks promising, but its questionable whether you can say our youth system produced him, at most we scouted him.

The others could easily be the next David McSweeneys.

i accept your point... i think the system as a whole (scouting, support, training) is starting to produce gems in attracting players... our old system could only really take in local lads, but now we are bringing in players from prem teams and abroad and it's exciting times. maybe we haven't quite seen the end product yet, and our youth team is struggling at the moment but i don't think we are far off really starting to see some talent come through, both in terms of making a return and also filtering into the 1st team

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

i accept your point... i think the system as a whole (scouting, support, training) is starting to produce gems in attracting players... our old system could only really take in local lads, but now we are bringing in players from prem teams and abroad and it's exciting times. maybe we haven't quite seen the end product yet, and our youth team is struggling at the moment but i don't think we are far off really starting to see some talent come through, both in terms of making a return and also filtering into the 1st team

I'll agree we're making progress in those areas, but I think we're still some way off our youth policy actually benefiting the first team.

 

[DTS]

I wish some of these gems would start coming through as all I have seen is Moose who is good but not really a first team canidate yet in my book.

Also cant help that some of these gems would benefit more from playing proper football in the league pyramid somewhere rather than youth football.

My main issue with our youth players is they are always Russell Williamson sized where as everyone elses players seem like giants.

 

[Ailsa Road Shrimper]

My main issue with our youth players is they are always Russell Williamson sized where as everyone elses players seem like giants.

Unfortunately our first team suffers from the same problem too!

 

[Thurrock_Blue]

Apart from the FA Youth Cup, I'm not sure the youth team's results have been that good this season, anyone got any details?

I think we're bottom of the table

 

[C C Csiders]

I think we're bottom of the table

Duncan OUT!:mad:

 

[Exiled Shrimper]

Apart from the FA Youth Cup, I'm not sure the youth team's results have been that good this season, anyone got any details?

In the League we've played six, lost five and drawn one. In the Youth Alliance Cup we won three, drew two and lost two matches in the group stage before being narrowly beaten by Peterborough United in the Second Round. In the Youth Cup we've beaten Croydon Athletic (3-1), Barnet (7-3) and Derby County (4-1), Stoke City are up next in Round Four.

However, in youth-team football, results don't mean everything. That's not to say having a winning mentality doesn't help - personally I feel that the likes of Franck Moussa, Peggy Lokando and Charles Ademeno have been helped in their development by the fact that they were in a winning Under-18 side, they progressed into a winning reserve side and that helps confidence.

The results against Academy opposition (Derby in the Youth Cup, Charlton Athletic, Millwall and Ipswich Town in pre-season) show that this group of players have a lot of ability that hasn't been showcased in the Youth Alliance League, yet. Remember the League season is only really a third of the way through because of Cup games, so there is plenty of time to start climbing the table.

 

[Exiled Shrimper]

...cant help that some of these gems would benefit more from playing proper football in the league pyramid somewhere rather than youth football.

My main issue with our youth players is they are always Russell Williamson sized where as everyone elses players seem like giants.

Currently, while the club don't have Academy status, there is benefit in sending second-year scholars out on loan in the non-League pyramid, as has happened with Charles Ademeno over the past season-and-a-half at Cambridge United, Bishop's Stortford and Welling United. However, it is a case of finding clubs that play in a certain style (they won't learn a lot from having lumps kicked out of them for months on end, even if it would aid physical development). It's likely that those clubs are the ones that count.

That's why SUFC playing in the Essex Senior Cup has been such a good idea. The likes of Johnny Herd, Dan Harvey, Stuart O'Keefe and Jamie Forshaw have all had chances to play against honest non-League players who will provide more of a physical challenge, and the fact that they've flown past Bowers & Pitsea and Tilbury, whilst on paper hardly looks impressive, suggests that they have the capabilities to cope with that sort of game.

Next Wednesday the youngsters that are selected will face a different challenge at Concord Rangers because the quarter-final tie will be away from Roots Hall, so there is the playing surface to contend with (although Thames Road is far from the worst in the Essex Senior League).

 

[Exiled Shrimper]

What gems has our youth system produced?

Moussa looks promising, but its questionable whether you can say our youth system produced him, at most we scouted him.

The others could easily be the next David McSweeneys.

Whilst this is correct, Rome wasn't built in a day. SUFC are fortunate to have a person in Ricky Duncan in charge of the Youth Department at the club having enjoyed a successful spell at Cambridge United where he had a proven track record, not only of getting results, but of producing players for their first team and for selling on.

In two years at Boots & Laces, RD and his team have already seen Franck Moussa, Peggy Lokando and Charles Ademeno (Moussa and Ademeno both having spent a full two-year scholarship at SUFC, Lokando obviously less so but he did have to be spotted) offered professional contracts. That is as much as they can do - local lads who were 8 when the coaching team were employed are 10, so they won't be knocking on the first-team door at this stage.

Luke Hobbs, as Centre of Excellence Manager, has an important job to do in bringing players through from that sort of age and on to the elder age groups, the Under-16s and Under-18s, but that could take a decade before we see lads from Essex and East Anglia who have come through the whole set-up, certainly it will be a couple of years off, and there is no negotiating that.

Also, being a CofE at the moment means that, in a sense, feeding off the scraps of Academy side is an important part of the process - bringing in talented players (like Lokando), who didn't quite make it at Arsenal. That doesn't mean he's not good enough for the Premiership in 5/10 years' time, when, if any, we'll get there. Players develop at different speeds, and Peggy has a chance, over a two-year professional deal, to do that at Roots Hall.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Not doubting we might have a good youth system in place Rob. But if people think its going to make us succesful within the enxt couple of years than they are mistaken. What we have got yet doens't count as successful. Successful is producing first team players.

 

[Exiled Shrimper]

Not doubting we might have a good youth system in place Rob. But if people think its going to make us succesful within the enxt couple of years than they are mistaken. What we have got yet doens't count as successful. Successful is producing first team players.

Agreed - it's definitely going to take time for the Centre of Excellence to bear fruit, especially on a consistent basis. Let's hope that the stadium gets the go-ahead, and that acts as a springboard to SUFC being able to invest in Academy status.

Johnny Herd was on the subs bench today - extremely well-deserved given the work that he's put in with us. For those that weren't at the last round of the Youth Cup and therefore don't have a programme, a little over two years ago, Johnny was playing Sunday morning football. He went for a trial day at Cambridge, where Luke Hobbs spotted him and recommended him to Ricky Duncan, and when the duo moved to Southend, they brought him with them.

To cap a brilliant day, the Under-18s won 1-0 at Leyton Orient this morning. Rhys Henry netted the goal - his 12th in 10 games - ninety seconds before half-time. A full report will appear in the usual places (official website and Shrimpers Trust site) over the weekend, and there's an archive of all the club's Under-18 matches so far this season on both.

 

[sufcintheprem]

Whilst this is correct, Rome wasn't built in a day. SUFC are fortunate to have a person in Ricky Duncan in charge of the Youth Department at the club having enjoyed a successful spell at Cambridge United where he had a proven track record, not only of getting results, but of producing players for their first team and for selling on.

In two years at Boots & Laces, RD and his team have already seen Franck Moussa, Peggy Lokando and Charles Ademeno (Moussa and Ademeno both having spent a full two-year scholarship at SUFC, Lokando obviously less so but he did have to be spotted) offered professional contracts. That is as much as they can do - local lads who were 8 when the coaching team were employed are 10, so they won't be knocking on the first-team door at this stage.

Luke Hobbs, as Centre of Excellence Manager, has an important job to do in bringing players through from that sort of age and on to the elder age groups, the Under-16s and Under-18s, but that could take a decade before we see lads from Essex and East Anglia who have come through the whole set-up, certainly it will be a couple of years off, and there is no negotiating that.

Also, being a CofE at the moment means that, in a sense, feeding off the scraps of Academy side is an important part of the process - bringing in talented players (like Lokando), who didn't quite make it at Arsenal. That doesn't mean he's not good enough for the Premiership in 5/10 years' time, when, if any, we'll get there. Players develop at different speeds, and Peggy has a chance, over a two-year professional deal, to do that at Roots Hall.

This is what I would have suspected but don't (or didn't) have the players or knowledge of events to back it up.

I completely accept what Yorkshire Blue is saying too that it will mean nothing until the first team sees some of these players. In spite of that, Moussa, IMO, is as good as any youth player I've seen come through at Southend and this seems almost entirely down to Duncan's presence and the current set up. Ok, he's not had a positive impact on the first team yet but he has promise in bundles and needs first team action to learn from his mistakes.

Not sure he should have been on the pitch at Swansea mind.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

This is what I would have suspected but don't (or didn't) have the players or knowledge of events to back it up.

I completely accept what Yorkshire Blue is saying too that it will mean nothing until the first team sees some of these players. In spite of that, Moussa, IMO, is as good as any youth player I've seen come through at Southend and this seems almost entirely down to Duncan's presence and the current set up. Ok, he's not had a positive impact on the first team yet but he has promise in bundles and needs first team action to learn from his mistakes.

Not sure he should have been on the pitch at Swansea mind.

I agree Moussa is as good a youth team player as I've seen in Roots Hall in nearly two decades (that's better than Leon Johnson, Dave McSweeney and Trevor Fitzpatrick then), but did Moussa really come through the youth system?

None of the players coming through seem to have been at the club for any length of time, they all seem to be picked up aged 16 from Cambridge. Has anyone actually progressed through from the under 12s or even under 14s?

 

[Exiled Shrimper]

I agree Moussa is as good a youth team player as I've seen in Roots Hall in nearly two decades (that's better than Leon Johnson, Dave McSweeney and Trevor Fitzpatrick then), but did Moussa really come through the youth system?

None of the players coming through seem to have been at the club for any length of time, they all seem to be picked up aged 16 from Cambridge. Has anyone actually progressed through from the under 12s or even under 14s?

At the moment it's unrealistic to expect players to be coming through from the Under-12s or Under-14s as, up until two-and-a-half years ago, the Centre of Excellence had been neglected (up until 4/5 years ago, the entire youth set-up was basically being left to sit and rot).

The players that have come through so far we all at least 16 before they joined the club. The current batch of second-year scholars mostly joined at Under-16 level (James Lindie being a notable exception - he was at Boots & Laces as a 14-year-old and was heavily involved pre-Ricky Duncan).

The first-years that are now progressing into the side have now largely been picked up from Academy sides (Stuart O'Keefe from Ipswich, Jack Morris from Arsenal). Nathan McDonald has been around a couple of years - he was brought along younger than the others as a 'keeper from Cambridge, has played Under-15s, Under-16s and is now Under-18s, with a number of reserve team appearances.

I have been to a couple of Under-16s matches over the past 12 months, and there are some good players coming through there, some of whom have been part of the Centre of Excellence for some time. But my opinion remains that there is nothing wrong with scouting players in from Academy sides at 14 or 15, then letting them enjoy a two-year scholarship with the club. Yes, Franck Moussa probably learnt much of his football at Royal Antwerp, but he had to be spotted, and once spotted, he then had to be nutured here. It takes individuals of the ilk of Luke Hobbs and Ricky Duncan to bring the best out in youngsters, and I don't think a club with our cuurent record in bringing youth-teamers into the first-team can start putting caveats on what constitutes "home-grown". Certainly the time and effort put in by the Youth Department in getting Franck Moussa into the first-team squad should be respected and commended - it's not the same as signing him as an 18-year-old. The same with Charles Ademeno, although I would concede that less time was invested with Peggy Lokando.