Supporters Group News Meeting 20th February 2023 - Zoom video

[Westcliff Shrimper]

Good chat last night.

Thanks again for your time, Naps. Much appreciated by all.

 

[Sherif H]

Just an observation - I note Liam mentioned that the ultimate capacity of any reduced scope stadium at FF might be larger with the introduction of safe-standing.

That isn't the case unfortunately - safe-standing replaces seating at a 1:1 ratio.

 

[Realist]

Hoping to watch this Friday evening or Saturday on train . What was the main jist of this ? Looking forward to watching.

 

[Target man]

It's not the only application that is delayed. The temporary buildings at the training centre still don't have permission from Rochford Council.

Makes you wonder what's going on.

Well the project is becoming a farce... to not have permission at the training centre at this stage is beyond incompetence. What a mess ....

 

[sufc4life21]

Stadium situation a joke/laughable..... I guess that's what happens if the current owner is joke to. I'm sure in year time will be back in court with no work started on the new stadium.

 

[Smiffy]

It's not the only application that is delayed. The temporary buildings at the training centre still don't have permission from Rochford Council.

Makes you wonder what's going on.

Not a lot by the looks of it.

 

[Westcliff Shrimper]

Just an observation - I note Liam mentioned that the ultimate capacity of any reduced scope stadium at FF might be larger with the introduction of safe-standing.

That isn't the case unfortunately - safe-standing replaces seating at a 1:1 ratio.

Yeah, but what do you know about stadium design though???

 

[kentblues]

Well the project is becoming a farce... to not have permission at the training centre at this stage is beyond incompetence. What a mess ....

Its for the temporary portacabins that won't be needed until end June/ beginning July - not the planning for the final structures that happen at a much later stage og the development. So hardly a desperate rush. That said a frustration is we don't actually know how minor the outstanding points on theses applications are? They could be minor stuff that could be satisfied in a week or two or more challenging. We are not told. And the end date for the determination isn't until April.

 

[Perky99]

Interesting stuff from Trevor re the RH and FF building scenario. If I understood correctly, the developers can start building on the Roots Hall car park but can't start demolishing the old stadium until SUFC have a place to play (or words to that effect). In my mind everyone assumes that means the stadium at FF has to have been built, but I was thinking what if SUFC agreed to groundshare with Dagenham or Col Utd or similar? They'd have somewhere to play so that would pass the test surely? Regarding FF the building of houses & flats there can't finish - not sure how far they can be completed - till there's a stadium for a football club to play in. As Trevor said, this could mean Southend Manor / Leigh Ramblers / even a phoenix club as it doesn't stipulate SUFC!

So I reckon one possible way it might work out is :-

• SUFC club agree as soon as this season ends to a ground share scheme and start playing there next season
  
  
• Building the flats and houses work starts on the whole RH site asap after that agreement is reached
  
  
• Building work starts on Boots and Laces in the summer once the new training pitches are fully ready to be used (don't think anyone actually has to train there), followed asap thereafter with work to build the stadium assuming the planning application has been fully passed!
  
  
• Stadium at FF is fully completed and either a phoenix club, or even SUFC if it has managed to exist whilst in the groundshare phase, sign to lease the new stadium off Ron or son Jack or whoever owns it
  
  
• Rest of houses and flats are built at FF to complete the whole deal
  
  
• Ron, Jack and the rest of the Martin family ride off into the sunset at least as far as running a football club is concerned :)
  
  
  
  
  

 

[Holy Joe]

Interesting stuff from Trevor re the RH and FF building scenario. If I understood correctly, the developers can start building on the Roots Hall car park but can't start demolishing the old stadium until SUFC have a place to play (or words to that effect). In my mind everyone assumes that means the stadium at FF has to have been built, but I was thinking what if SUFC agreed to groundshare with Dagenham or Col Utd or similar? They'd have somewhere to play so that would pass the test surely? Regarding FF the building of houses & flats there can't finish - not sure how far they can be completed - till there's a stadium for a football club to play in. As Trevor said, this could mean Southend Manor / Leigh Ramblers / even a phoenix club as it doesn't stipulate SUFC!

So I reckon one possible way it might work out is :-

• SUFC club agree as soon as this season ends to a ground share scheme and start playing there next season
  
  
• Building the flats and houses work starts on the whole RH site asap after that agreement is reached
  
  
• Building work starts on Boots and Laces in the summer once the new training pitches are fully ready to be used (don't think anyone actually has to train there), followed asap thereafter with work to build the stadium assuming the planning application has been fully passed!
  
  
• Stadium at FF is fully completed and either a phoenix club, or even SUFC if it has managed to exist whilst in the groundshare phase, sign to lease the new stadium off Ron or son Jack or whoever owns it
  
  
• Rest of houses and flats are built at FF to complete the whole deal
  
  
• Ron, Jack and the rest of the Martin family ride off into the sunset at least as far as running a football club is concerned :)
  
  
  
  

No - the planning permission for RH states that the new stadium for Southend has to be the one at Fossets Phase 1

 

[Liam AAS]

Just an observation - I note Liam mentioned that the ultimate capacity of any reduced scope stadium at FF might be larger with the introduction of safe-standing.

That isn't the case unfortunately - safe-standing replaces seating at a 1:1 ratio.

Damn, I thought it was 3 standing for every 2 seats. That's a shame.

 

[Cockle43]

The application has been given delegated decision - I think that means it won't be voted on by councillors and get just be approved (or rejected) by planning staff

That is correct, an application with delegated decision does not have to go before Development Control Committee.
But, there is always a but, a Councillor can 'call in' an application to be considered at DCC...

 

[Sherif H]

Damn, I thought it was 3 standing for every 2 seats. That's a shame.

Unfortunately not - the systems can come in 1,2 or 3 seat modules, but it is a like for like conversion.

We are currently on site at Fratton Park - in to the third phase of the redevelopment there, and currently installing safe-standing in the away end. Anybody who says Roots Hall cannot feasibly be redeveloped (or 'could have' given the current rate of decline) is talking nonsense - revitalisation of a stadium using non-standard/lightweight construction methods is the future of stadium redevelopment.

 

[Cockle43]

@Cockle43 can you clarify again what you were told? That the council is awaiting a revised planning application? If so then, since there is already one registered on the planning portal, there must be a third revised application on the way?

What I was told, and what I relayed, was that no application had been received.
I received that information on Monday and digging deeper it appears that all of the statutory body consultations to all interested bodies were completed by 1/12/22 on 22/01528/FULM which went in on 29/7/22; as you would expect for the application just being on the same footprint most of those would not be varied very much or at all. The determination deadline was set as 13/12/23 and an agreed Expiry date is now shown as 5/4/23.

Looking at that I would say that what the information I was given should have said was that the application has not been submitted for decision rather than just not submitted.
This ties in with the Council statement which stated that is has not progressed to decision because of some details still required from the Club. That does not make it quite as horrendous as nothing been submitted but it still means the ball is firmly in the Club's hands to move it forward towards completion.
The question remains as to why the Club's planning agents at Power Haus Consultancy have not moved it forwards when it is in their, and the Club's, hands to do so.

 

[Medway Blue]

What I was told, and what I relayed, was that no application had been received.
I received that information on Monday and digging deeper it appears that all of the statutory body consultations to all interested bodies were completed by 1/12/22 on 22/01528/FULM which went in on 29/7/22; as you would expect for the application just being on the same footprint most of those would not be varied very much or at all. The determination deadline was set as 13/12/23 and an agreed Expiry date is now shown as 5/4/23.

Looking at that I would say that what the information I was given should have said that the application has not been submitted for decision rather than just not submitted.
This ties in with the Council statement which stated that is has not progressed to decision because of some details still required from the Club. That does not make it quite as horrendous as nothing been submitted but it still means the ball is firmly in the Club's hands to move it forward towards completion.
The question remains as to why the Club's planning agents at Power Haus Consultancy have not moved it forwards when it is in their, and the Club's, hands to do so.

Thanks for clearing that up Trevor, that would make sense.

 

[The Big Dady]

The question remains as to why the Club's planning agents at Power Haus Consultancy have not moved it forwards when it is in their, and the Club's, hands to do so.

Perhaps they are also waiting to be paid?

 

[Shrimpergonzo]

What I was told, and what I relayed, was that no application had been received.
I received that information on Monday and digging deeper it appears that all of the statutory body consultations to all interested bodies were completed by 1/12/22 on 22/01528/FULM which went in on 29/7/22; as you would expect for the application just being on the same footprint most of those would not be varied very much or at all. The determination deadline was set as 13/12/23 and an agreed Expiry date is now shown as 5/4/23.

Looking at that I would say that what the information I was given should have said was that the application has not been submitted for decision rather than just not submitted.
This ties in with the Council statement which stated that is has not progressed to decision because of some details still required from the Club. That does not make it quite as horrendous as nothing been submitted but it still means the ball is firmly in the Club's hands to move it forward towards completion.
The question remains as to why the Club's planning agents at Power Haus Consultancy have not moved it forwards when it is in their, and the Club's, hands to do so.

As a former planning officer (many many years ago, and not in Southend) this makes more sense.

A complicated application like this will often require further information/reports before it can be determined. Maybe something like a revised version of the traffic impact study or environmental impact statement. Sometimes reports like this have a shelf life and need to be updated. All of this costs money, as does a decent planning consultant. Not sure Ronnie Boy has a lot of spare cash at the moment and maybe that’s why things have gone a bit quiet from the Council’s point of view.

Just guessing

 

[Cockle43]

Interesting stuff from Trevor re the RH and FF building scenario. If I understood correctly, the developers can start building on the Roots Hall car park but can't start demolishing the old stadium until SUFC have a place to play (or words to that effect). In my mind everyone assumes that means the stadium at FF has to have been built, but I was thinking what if SUFC agreed to groundshare with Dagenham or Col Utd or similar? They'd have somewhere to play so that would pass the test surely? Regarding FF the building of houses & flats there can't finish - not sure how far they can be completed - till there's a stadium for a football club to play in. As Trevor said, this could mean Southend Manor / Leigh Ramblers / even a phoenix club as it doesn't stipulate SUFC!

So I reckon one possible way it might work out is :-

• SUFC club agree as soon as this season ends to a ground share scheme and start playing there next season
  
  
• Building the flats and houses work starts on the whole RH site asap after that agreement is reached
  
  
• Building work starts on Boots and Laces in the summer once the new training pitches are fully ready to be used (don't think anyone actually has to train there), followed asap thereafter with work to build the stadium assuming the planning application has been fully passed!
  
  
• Stadium at FF is fully completed and either a phoenix club, or even SUFC if it has managed to exist whilst in the groundshare phase, sign to lease the new stadium off Ron or son Jack or whoever owns it
  
  
• Rest of houses and flats are built at FF to complete the whole deal
  
  
• Ron, Jack and the rest of the Martin family ride off into the sunset at least as far as running a football club is concerned :)
  
  
  
  

The potential for starting some works at Roots Hall is there but would need some clever footwork around Condition 3 using the phasing plan required under Condition 2 of the application 19/01985/FULM for the Roots Hall site.
Condition 2 states that a phasing plan is required to be agreed before work can begin at Roots Hall and Condition 3 is where it ties down the requirements for completed elements at Fossetts before work can commence at Roots Hall.

It is not completely impossible that agreement could be reached under the required phasing plan to commence some works on parts of Roots Hall site before a new stadium is completely finished, unlikely but not impossible. A possible scenario could be that Fossetts would be on target to be ready for the start of a season in the August but developer wants to get on site at Roots Hall immediately the last home game has been played. Technically that would be breaking those conditions.
It is certainly relatively common place for requests to be made to vary Conditions as developments get under way and that could form part of the phasing agreement.

From the determination of 19/01985/FULM

02 No development shall take place on site until a phasing plan has been submitted to and approved in writing by the local planning authority. This plan will demonstrate how the amenity of existing neighbours and occupants of early phases of the scheme will be protected in accordance with the Demolition and Construction Management Plan required under Condition 5 and the Construction Logistics Plan required under Condition 6. The development shall be undertaken only in accordance with the phasing plan approved under this condition. Reason: To ensure a coordinated development that complies with the National Planning Policy Framework (NPPF) and the requirements of the local development plan and to protect residential amenity of existing neighbours and future residents.

03 No development whatsoever, including but not limited to any demolition or stripping out of the existing stadium, shall commence unless and until: (a) the new Stadium application comprising all of elements of Stadium phase 1 including the provision of the new Football Pitch, the erection of the east, west and southern stands with seating to accommodate no less than 13,893 spectators, identified on Phasing Plan 22274-CW-ZZ-AA-M3-A-Site-SO.RVT Revision P-O3 at Fossetts Farm and set out in approved plans L1 Lower Concourse/BOH Level, Phase 01, GA Plan - SUS-POP-00-01-GA-A-0101 to Roof Level, Phase 01, Ga Plan - SUS-POP-00-RF-GA-A-0106, North/South, East/West Sections Phase 01 - SUS-POP-ZX-ZZ-SE-A-0200, Bowl Plan Phase 1 - SUS-POP-00-04-GA-A-6000 and in the Development Framework Specification at paragraph 2.5 under reference 17/00733/FULM is granted full planning permission by Southend on Sea Council; (b) Phase I including the provision of the new Football Pitch, the erection of the east, west and southern stands with seating to accommodate no less than 13893 spectators and Supporters Way is built out fully in accordance with the permission(s) granted and subsequently made available for use whether by Southend Football Club or any other Club to the satisfaction of the Director of Planning or Head of Planning and Building Control; and (c) Adequate Supporters, players and staff car parking and public transport provision on match days is laid out and made available in accordance with planning permission 17/00733/FULM and with planning permission granted by Rochford District Council under reference 17/00436/FUL Land North of Smither's Chase. To secure the discharge of this condition the applicant shall submit to the Director of Planning or Head of Planning and Building Control a report including evidence of the satisfactory practical completion of all elements set out above, completed and executed agreements for lease for all the above facilities for a minimum of 20 years in a form annexed to the Agreement, and a safety certificate authorising the use of the Stadium by the public. No development whatsoever shall commence unless and until all matters set out above are evidenced to the written satisfaction of the Director of Planning or Head of Planning and Building Control.

Reason: To protect the sporting social and cultural function of Southend United Football Club.

 

[Smiffy]

If there’s a delay on anything with this club it’s usually related to gold coins, or lack of.

 

[Supershrimper]

Sorry if its been discussed already. Paul Fitzgerald (Shrimpers Trust) around 47:00 in mentions about an American investor and Tom has agreed to go on the zoom call. Is that Tom Lawrence?