Protesting wont make any difference

[WestyReturns]

We all have our answer.... over 3,000 loyal supporters were prepared to part with their very hard earned wages to buy a season ticket ?‍

I am not digging at anyone as I totally understand why and my decision not to return to Roots Hall hurt so much but it's my way of saying "enough is enough"

Everyone has to do what they feel is right but while we are still getting 5 or 6,000 supporters turning up to watch non league football Uncle Ron will have a very sly smirk on his face and keep taking your money & the p!$s out of all of us and put it in the FF slush fund to replace the spade he put it the ground 5 years ago that has now rusted away ?‍

Very true. Enough was enough last season. Ron's been rewarded for extreme failure.

 

[number11]

Ok.

Firstly, Ron will still be the landlord but has stated that the club would remain there on the same terms as now, i.e. with deferred rent as long as he owns the club. There will also be income streams coming to the club (but I'm not sure what).

Now - this 3 sided ground stuff. It is a complete myth that he wants to build a 3 sided stadium. He doesn't and I wish people would actually remember why the 3 sided stadium was ever mentioned at all.

It is because at one stage, it was impossible to build all four at once due to the main sponsors and businesses involved with the main stand pulling out.

In an effort to try and get the thing going, Ron asked for permission for the club to building 3 sides first with a 4th to follow asap, but certainly within 5 years(I think).

The council - in making their decision - had to consider what would happen if it got to 5 years and the 4th one had not been built. What was the remedy? Knock the stadium down? Of course not, so they then had to consider whether they could give permission for a 3 sided stadium if that's all it was ever going to be.

They decided they could. So there were are.

That is a world of difference from Ron wanting a 3 sided stadium bearing in mind the 4th one was probably going to generate the most income for him.

Now - I must admit I am not fully up to date with the current plans but unless there has been a change of plan and the plans are now ONLY for a 3 sided ground - and please shoot me down if they are - then I don't believe it will be 3 sided for long.

Finally Ron isn't going to built a huge white elephant of a stadium and just leave a club in there to rot. Think about it.

So if we took the option of wanting the stadium being built as our best bet we are then reliant on Ron’s word that rent terms will be as they currently are - ie rent racks up as debt against football club to his company.
We then also might get extra revenue streams-but these are not specified?

that’s a hell of a leap of faith isn’t it?

im not saying you are wrong, I’m genuinely interested in understanding the options and implications. So out of the options I outlined in an earlier post - you favour getting behind Ron and his stadium and taking our chances? Presumably that would really need to see fans mobilise in favour of Ron and rally their energy towards the council to get the stadium built??

 

[number11]

Finally Ron isn't going to built a huge white elephant of a stadium and just leave a club in there to rot. Think about it.

Indulge me - but why not? I thought the building of a stadium was essentially the price / premium he has to incur to unlock the real wealth in all this - the development at Roots Hall and FF. if it takes building the cheapest stadium possible to unlock that value than that would still make it worth his while financially.

 

[sufc4life21]

I wouldn't be so sure about the new stadium being 4 sides...... we are currently in the National league so why would a small club like sufc require 22k capacity? My personal view is Ron looking to build the cheapest stadium he can build and look to sell the club on..... I doubt he that bothered what league sufc will be in aslong he gets his big payday! Lets be honest it's not really about the new stadium anymore it's about the housing the council will get and Ron getting his payday. The football club is just an obstacle.

If this all does come to fruition, I feel sorry for poor sod who comes in after Ron...... will end having clear up the mess which has been left.

Atleast will have new stadium in the Essex senior league to look forward to. Cheers Ron

 

[nick12]

I wouldn't be so sure about the new stadium being 4 sides...... we are currently in the National league so why would a small club like sufc require 22k capacity? My personal view is Ron looking to build the cheapest stadium he can build and look to sell the club on..... I doubt he that bothered what league sufc will be in aslong he gets his big payday! Lets be honest it's not really about the new stadium anymore it's about the housing the council will get and Ron getting his payday. The football club is just an obstacle.

If this all does come to fruition, I feel sorry for poor sod who comes in after Ron...... will end having clear up the mess which has been left.

Atleast will have new stadium in the Essex senior league to look forward to. Cheers Ron

Unfortunately you are spot on and because of his f ing legacy with FF we are in this s#!t mess ?

 

[sufc4life21]

Unfortunately you are spot on and because of his f ing legacy with FF we are in this s#!t mess ?

Yep. It's us fans who have to suffer this crap year on year.

 

[WestyReturns]

How about a simple effective tactic. Target his array of other companies and their customers

 

[OldBlueLady]

How about a simple effective tactic. Target his array of other companies and their customers

Go on then, I'll bite. How do you suggest that happens? Aren't all/the vast majority of his companies tied up with property one way or another?

 

[fbm]

So if we took the option of wanting the stadium being built as our best bet we are then reliant on Ron’s word that rent terms will be as they currently are - ie rent racks up as debt against football club to his company.
We then also might get extra revenue streams-but these are not specified?

that’s a hell of a leap of faith isn’t it?

im not saying you are wrong, I’m genuinely interested in understanding the options and implications. So out of the options I outlined in an earlier post - you favour getting behind Ron and his stadium and taking our chances? Presumably that would really need to see fans mobilise in favour of Ron and rally their energy towards the council to get the stadium built??

I'm not saying that, there may be other people that know what they are, Trust members etc. (the one's who attend the Zoom meetings; I haven't seen them all).

I'm saying I don't know what they are.

But of course it may be that Ron doesn't yet know either because there have been so many different forms that this build has taken, he may want to wait until the thing actually gets started before looking at that side.

 

[fbm]

I wouldn't be so sure about the new stadium being 4 sides...... we are currently in the National league so why would a small club like sufc require 22k capacity? My personal view is Ron looking to build the cheapest stadium he can build and look to sell the club on..... I doubt he that bothered what league sufc will be in aslong he gets his big payday! Lets be honest it's not really about the new stadium anymore it's about the housing the council will get and Ron getting his payday. The football club is just an obstacle.

If this all does come to fruition, I feel sorry for poor sod who comes in after Ron...... will end having clear up the mess which has been left.

Atleast will have new stadium in the Essex senior league to look forward to. Cheers Ron

And here's the thing...

IF HE LEAVES IT IN A MESS AND WANTS TO SELL IT, NO-ONE WILL BUY!

Please note, I'm not shouting at you, just emphasising very, very loudly.

From a behavioural point of view - and as much as people might want to believe it because it fits their narrative - it makes absolutely no sense to build something half baked (a 3 sided stadium, say), with no income streams, no funding, crippling rent and reliant on income from tickets only (of which there will only ever be 3/4 capacity now) and then expect to sell to the highest bidder and walk away!

Now - if things had been/were different - and we were a Championship side with attendance in 5 figures every game. then THAT is when he might consider selling. But if he wants to get out at all - personally I'm not convinced, but he might be - after all I'm sure he is just as fed up as us, bearing in mind we don't have tons of abuse being shouted at us all the time by many, many people and it's not costing any of us tens of thousands of pounds per month to keep the club afloat - then it has to be in a decent state with a sustainable and profitable plan, otherwise there is nothing to sell.

I totally understand why people are frightened and why they think he is the devil incarnate. But if he was to want to close us down just so he can get his hands on the land, he could have done that many, many years ago and at a cost saving of £millions.

If he was out to destroy the club then absolutely none of the last 25 years makes any sense.

 

[Medway Blue]

And here's the thing...

IF HE LEAVES IT IN A MESS AND WANTS TO SELL IT, NO-ONE WILL BUY!

Please note, I'm not shouting at you, just emphasising very, very loudly.

From a behavioural point of view - and as much as people might want to believe it because it fits their narrative - it makes absolutely no sense to build something half baked (a 3 sided stadium, say), with no income streams, no funding, crippling rent and reliant on income from tickets only (of which there will only ever be 3/4 capacity now) and then expect to sell to the highest bidder and walk away!

Now - if things had been/were different - and we were a Championship side with attendance in 5 figures every game. then THAT is when he might consider selling. But if he wants to get out at all - personally I'm not convinced, but he might be - after all I'm sure he is just as fed up as us, bearing in mind we don't have tons of abuse being shouted at us all the time by many, many people and it's not costing any of us tens of thousands of pounds per month to keep the club afloat - then it has to be in a decent state with a sustainable and profitable plan, otherwise there is nothing to sell.

I totally understand why people are frightened and why they think he is the devil incarnate. But if he was to want to close us down just so he can get his hands on the land, he could have done that many, many years ago and at a cost saving of £millions.

If he was out to destroy the club then absolutely none of the last 25 years makes any sense.

I make you right in many ways. He is no Steve Dale......but it doesn't make it OK for him to have destroyed and neglected the club in the last few seasons to force through his pay day, and it doesn't make it OK for the fanbase to sit back and watch it happen.

A new stadium and all that it should bring should be a joyous moment for supporters, but by inflicting the level of damage to the club that he has in his pursuit, he has sucked the potential joy out of it. He has a Messiah complex and is expecting us turn around and praise him as our Saviour once building work starts, and to forget the new lows that he has dragged the club to in order to achieve it. The stadium is not the priority in the development, the football side of things isn't his priority within the club and hasn't been for several years, and he has sucked the potential joy out of a new stadium so much that fans who were once in favour, like myself, are now beginning to have serious second thoughts, if not outright turn against it. Just when you think things couldn't get any worse, they do - when is the club's decline going to bottom out? And how far do we have to fall for fans to stop being so apathetic?

Lots of people want him out immediately. I do appreciate the difficulties with that due to the unforgiveable position of mutual reliance that he seems to have got us into. So I can probably just about hold on until the first spade is in the ground. Once that has happened, I want him gone. If he is utterly deluded enough to think that he can repair all of the damage he has done, then he needs to be convinced otherwise. He might be stubborn, but he is also extremely insecure and can't take criticism or bad publicity, and I think that fan-led action with attached publicity will play on that. Anything that has been tried in the past has been extremely short-lived. Let's apply some sustained pressure and see where it gets us.

This Club's name in Football and business circles with Ron Martin in charge is irreparably in the gutter. We are an absolute basket case and laughing stock - the release of some funds through his loans secured against the development's planning permission will never fully reverse that, and the club simply can't move forward properly until he is gone.

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't feel like sitting back and waiting 4 or 5 years until the 4th side at Fossett's is built for that to happen. The club should be fought for.

 

[basilrobbie]

I can't follow the OP's logic at all. He starts by saying protest is futile, and then recommends a protest.

I'm not a Southend fan and I don't really know the personalities or the history. But just some observations based upon our experience at Blackpool :

1. Protest can be very powerful, if enough people support it. It is highly visible and when it is done outside the stadium becomes an issue that both council and police will want to manage. And you can build alliances by working collaboratively with both ; we did, to an extent

2. Have you ever done any assessment of the impact on the local economy of SUFC dropping out of the league? Visitor numbers for football must have plummeted, I would have thought, and if that doesn't concern the council - it should

3. You do have to find ways of getting Mr. Martin out of his comfort zone, if you want to induce movement. That could involve bringing extra scrutiny to bear on his non-football related business, for example, as well as trying to deprive him football revenue

4. You don't have to fight on one single front at once, and indeed there is a great deal of merit in switching focus regularly and taking your campaign into new arenas (NL, national and local media, Parliament. Has anyone thought of writing to Tracey Crouch to give her the case history ?

5. I wouldn't under-estimate the club's potential, or the level of interest it might attract from buyers. Your crowds have been remarkably good in recent years, all things considered, your catchment area must be enormous and local competition is limited (certainly as compared with what we have).

I can't see you going down again, you look too solid defensively and I think there are several clubs around you who you can leave behind over a long season. But you need a platform to help you get out of what is (I think) the toughest of the top five Leagues. The current regime aren't providing that, and from an outsider's perspective, look woefully ill-equipped to do so.

 

[sufc4life21]

And here's the thing...

IF HE LEAVES IT IN A MESS AND WANTS TO SELL IT, NO-ONE WILL BUY!

Please note, I'm not shouting at you, just emphasising very, very loudly.

From a behavioural point of view - and as much as people might want to believe it because it fits their narrative - it makes absolutely no sense to build something half baked (a 3 sided stadium, say), with no income streams, no funding, crippling rent and reliant on income from tickets only (of which there will only ever be 3/4 capacity now) and then expect to sell to the highest bidder and walk away!

Now - if things had been/were different - and we were a Championship side with attendance in 5 figures every game. then THAT is when he might consider selling. But if he wants to get out at all - personally I'm not convinced, but he might be - after all I'm sure he is just as fed up as us, bearing in mind we don't have tons of abuse being shouted at us all the time by many, many people and it's not costing any of us tens of thousands of pounds per month to keep the club afloat - then it has to be in a decent state with a sustainable and profitable plan, otherwise there is nothing to sell.

I totally understand why people are frightened and why they think he is the devil incarnate. But if he was to want to close us down just so he can get his hands on the land, he could have done that many, many years ago and at a cost saving of £millions.

If he was out to destroy the club then absolutely none of the last 25 years makes any sense.

You made some decent points and I actually hope your right..... I have my doubts though, we have dropped like anker to the bottom of the ocean these last few years and it doesn't look like it's stopping! I blame Ron for the majority of are downward spiral. Do I think Ron intentionally put us here on purpose? No I don't, but he has made some terrible decisions. Worst 1 was not paying hmrc on time which resulted in court appearances (you could argue that's normality) and transfer embargo which made the season 20/21 summer recruitment non-existent, main reason why we lost our efl status and if I'm honest I'm still bitter about it. For club of sufc size and potential is just unacceptable.

personally, i dont think Ron actually wants to be at sufc anymore but will ride it out to reach his pot of gold. Ron hardly getting any younger now is he, by the time the new stadium is built Ron will be into his 70s....... the football club won't be worth great deal even with the new stadium with it due to how far we dropped. With all what iv said it just looks to me Ron waiting for his payday and off he goes. If I'm honest I probably would take that now so we can move forward as club and fanbase.

I actually hope your right and im wrong! In 5 years time the club is thriving and back in the efl playing infront of 7/8k enjoying are football again.

 

[Shrimpet steve]

Maybe, I hope there are people more in the know than me as to how that would play out. I guess the concern would be Ron would still want considerable money to walk away (unless the stadium and club ownership were split) and there would be no takers - or Ron decides that the club isn’t worth propping up anymore and can go bust - he then has freedom to do what he wants at Roots hall (based on my assumption that the ‘covenant’ would be released…) …. So the boycott route would need to factor in the possible need for a Phoenix club?

either way, a boycott would seem better than a protest.

not a dig, but aren’t the Trust going to have better knowledge of these things and be giving some direction to the fans - or is that not their remit / expectation?

In all honesty the trust haven't got a clue!

 

[RHB]

In all honesty the trust haven't got a clue!

Why do you say that @Shrimpet steve? Are you a member?

 

[Shrimpet steve]

Why do you say that @Shrimpet steve? Are you a member?

No!! but its very simple! To get ron out the trust must approve a boycott! The trust have power and say so! If no one turns up apart from the away fans then Ron is tottally f....d!! And will most definitely get the message.

 

[number11]

I'm not saying that, there may be other people that know what they are, Trust members etc. (the one's who attend the Zoom meetings; I haven't seen them all).

I'm saying I don't know what they are.

But of course it may be that Ron doesn't yet know either because there have been so many different forms that this build has taken, he may want to wait until the thing actually gets started before looking at that side.

Thank you for replying. So do you think the best action for fans to take is actually to unite behind Ron, do whatever we can to get a stadium built and take our chances from there?