Quarter Final Heat 2

[Cricko]

The second Quarter Final heat today is between,

Brian Wilson - Shrimpero v John Lennon - Canveyshrimper.

 

[Supernaut]

While Brian Wilson undoubtedly wipes the floor with Lennon in terms of musical ability, understanding and sophistication, I have to vote for JL - BW didn't write the lyrics for most of his best songs, and JL's music moves me in a way that BW's doesn't and never will.

 

[OldBlueLady]

Waiting to hear what these two worthies will have to say.

 

[Rob Noxious]

Goodness gracious me. This is a kind of poetic collision in some ways. You may know that I'm here by proxy for my brother BarnaBlue who is currently on holiday from the 'Zone. However, this is one that I know that he too would struggle with as he's a huge fan of Lennon, who remains one of his heroes. Not only did I grow up in a house where The Beach Boys were played all the time, but a few years later John's immediate post-Beatles albums were very much there and thereabouts too, especially the Plastic Ono Band 'primal screaming' one and of course, 'Imagine.' Anyway, more on this later, but here's summat I wrote earlier which sums up my take on Brian Wilson's great contribution to the art of songwriting:-

Brian Wilson is a musical genius* and took popular music to a whole new level in the sixties. I know because my brother BarnaBlue played The Beach Boys all the time on the dansette in his room which was next door to mine. I love the stories about how The Beatles and Wilson tried to outvie each other in the mid-sixties with how far they could keep pushing the envelope. Wilson was inspired by 'Rubber Soul' to write the awesome 'Pet Sounds,'** an album I remember seeing in Barna's room back in the old house, but one that I did not get to know as a friend (rather than an invader) until 30 years later. Paul McCartney refers to 'God Only Knows' as his favourite song, but there are plenty of other gems on 'Pet Sounds' too - including the glorious opener 'Wouldn't It Be Nice' and the achingly beautiful 'Caroline, No.' A special word too for 'I Wasn't Made For These Times,' which I'm pretty sure that Brian (with Tony Asher) wrote for me.

The severe and enduring deterioration in Brian's mental health (in early 1967) prevented his completion of the 'Smile' album - with which he had hoped to answer 'Revolver' - until 2004, with his original collaborator, the lyricist Van Dyke Parks. It is a testament to Wilson's resilience that he came back through the looking glass to achieve this goal and it is highly impressive that he is still making music to this day with his 'reimaginations' of Gershwin, as recently performed at The Royal Festival Hall.

Brian Wilson is a musical genius and psychosis survivor. You gotta love the old guy for what he's given us. You'd have to be an individual of chronic curmudgeonliness not to be moved by those inspiring sixties sounds, a time when hope dreamed beyond the sun and fun of the beach.

*In 2000, Wilson was inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame. Paul McCartney introduced Brian, referring to him as "one of the great American geniuses."

**Pet Sounds has been ranked as one of the most influential records in popular music, and has been ranked #1 on several music magazines' lists of the greatest albums of all time. It is ranked #2 on Rolling Stone's 500 Greatest Albums of All Time.

Hope these links work ok >

The Beach Boys - California Girls
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKwvjyYCJNs

Wouldn't It Be Nice...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=L--cqAI3IUI

Good Vibrations ... www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCeD_6Y3GQc

 

[Rob Noxious]

Just continuing my tuppence worth in a new post due to some issues with formatting above that I can't seem to sort ... in many ways (as Supernaut said) Lennon's music speaks more to me than Brian Wilson's does but those melodies of Wilson's stay etched in the 'soul memory' banks more than John's songs do. Though Supernaut is right to say that Wilson relied on others to provide the lyrics, the creation of the music itself is the real litmus test here and that's why I'm still voting for the old Beach Boy. Turn the argument on its head - Lennon's lyrics were enhanced by Macca's musical machinations. I know people will say 'Imagine' is one of the finest tracks ever but for me it's a song that I have become really tired of and many of John's songs post-Beatles do not endure for me in the way that Wilson's do. People will say, "ah yes - but the Beatles song do." I would have to contend and say "yes, to some extent" and point to the influence that Macca had in the really enduring ones such as 'Penny Lane.' 'In My Life' is a wonderful song too and I would think that John had a big influence in that, but with Wilson there is no doubt - he wrote the music himself and we had fun, fun, fun until Lucy stole the diamonds away.

 

[Napster]

BW all the way. Pet Sounds is a classic.

 

[Supernaut]

BW all the way. Pet Sounds is a classic.

Indeed, but Wilson only wrote 2 songs without assistance, both fairly ordinary instrumental tracks...

01. "Wouldn't It Be Nice" (B. Wilson/Asher/Love)
02. "You Still Believe in Me" (B. Wilson/Asher)
03. "That's Not Me" (B. Wilson/Asher)
04. "Don't Talk (Put Your Head on My Shoulder)" (B. Wilson/Asher)
05. "I'm Waiting for the Day" (B. Wilson/Love)
06. "Let's Go Away for Awhile" (B. Wilson)
07. "Sloop John B" (trad. arr.B. Wilson)
08. "God Only Knows" (B. Wilson/Asher)
09. "I Know There's an Answer" (B. Wilson/Sachen/Love)
10. "Here Today" (B. Wilson/Asher)
11. "I Just Wasn't Made for These Times" (B. Wilson/Asher)
12. "Pet Sounds" (B. Wilson)
13. "Caroline, No" (B. Wilson/Asher)

 

[Rob Noxious]

Indeed, but Wilson only wrote 2 songs without assistance, both fairly ordinary instrumental tracks...

01. "Wouldn't It Be Nice" (B. Wilson/Asher/Love)
02. "You Still Believe in Me" (B. Wilson/Asher)
03. "That's Not Me" (B. Wilson/Asher)
04. "Don't Talk (Put Your Head on My Shoulder)" (B. Wilson/Asher)
05. "I'm Waiting for the Day" (B. Wilson/Love)
06. "Let's Go Away for Awhile" (B. Wilson)
07. "Sloop John B" (trad. arr.B. Wilson)
08. "God Only Knows" (B. Wilson/Asher)
09. "I Know There's an Answer" (B. Wilson/Sachen/Love)
10. "Here Today" (B. Wilson/Asher)
11. "I Just Wasn't Made for These Times" (B. Wilson/Asher)
12. "Pet Sounds" (B. Wilson)
13. "Caroline, No" (B. Wilson/Asher)

Do you really think that Brian Wilson was not the main man behind 'Pet Sounds'?! :stunned:

 

[Supernaut]

Do you really think that Brian Wilson was not the main man behind 'Pet Sounds'?! :stunned:

Abosultely not.
Are you saying that Brian Wilson/Pet Sounds would be held in as high regard without Tony Asher/Van Dyke Parks' incredible lyrics??

 

[MK Shrimper]

Pet Sounds was made in reaction to Sgt. Pepper, hence Lennon begat Wilson.

 

[Clinton Baptiste]

Abosultely not.
Are you saying that Brian Wilson/Pet Sounds would be held in as high regard without Tony Asher/Van Dyke Parks' incredible lyrics??

Yes one weakness of Brian was his lyric writing but then in fairness most of the time he was off his tits on drugs, but still able to conjure up beauty and majesty in his music. He pioneered many production techniques and you could argue that in fact he was a bigger influence on the Beatles than they were on him.

 

[Dick Bate's Protege]

Lennon's output in The Beatles is simply superior to Wilson's in The Beach Boys in my humble opinion, so it has to be the chirpy scouser for me.

 

[BLUEBLOOD]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI0Q8ytD44Y

"In My Life" is a song by The Beatles written by John Lennon (credited to Lennon/McCartney). The song originated with Lennon, and while Paul McCartney contributed to the final version, the extent of his contribution is in dispute .. more evidence to those that think that JL and PM sat hand in hand writing songs together

There are places I'll remember
All my life though some have changed
Some forever not for better
Some have gone and some remain
All these places had their moments
With lovers and friends I still can recall
Some are dead and some are living
In my life I've loved them all

But of all these friends and lovers
There is no one compares with you
And these memories lose their meaning
When I think of love as something new
Though I know I'll never lose affection
For people and things that went before
I know I'll often stop and think about them
In my life I love you more

Though I know I'll never lose affection
For people and things that went before
I know I'll often stop and think about them
In my life I love you more
In my life I love you more

 

[BLUEBLOOD]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b7qaSxuZUg

In 2004, Rolling Stone ranked "Imagine" at number 3 in its list of "The 500 Greatest Songs of All Time" ... for me its quite simply one of the most beautiful songs ever written

Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one

 

[MK Shrimper]

Would the premature and untimely death of Brian Wilson caused such a furore across the world? I very much doubt it.

The Beatles are, and always will be untouchable legends at Lennon was at the very core of that.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Pet Sounds was made in reaction to Sgt. Pepper, hence Lennon begat Wilson.

If Pet Sounds was made in reaction to Sgt Pepper, then Brian Wilson truly was a visionary....

 

[BLUEBLOOD]

A personal favourite of mine ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njG7p6CSbCU

As soon as your born they make you feel small,
By giving you no time instead of it all,
Till the pain is so big you feel nothing at all,
A working class hero is something to be,
A working class hero is something to be.
They hurt you at home and they hit you at school,
They hate you if you're clever and they despise a fool,
Till you're so ****ing crazy you can't follow their rules,
A working class hero is something to be,
A working class hero is something to be.
When they've tortured and scared you for twenty odd years,
Then they expect you to pick a career,
When you can't really function you're so full of fear,
A working class hero is something to be,
A working class hero is something to be.
Keep you doped with religion and sex and TV,
And you think you're so clever and classless and free,
But you're still ****ing peasents as far as I can see,
A working class hero is something to be,
A working class hero is something to be.
There's room at the top they are telling you still,
But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,
If you want to be like the folks on the hill,
A working class hero is something to be.
A working class hero is something to be.
If you want to be a hero well just follow me,
If you want to be a hero well just follow me.

 

[MK Shrimper]

If Pet Sounds was made in reaction to Sgt Pepper, then Brian Wilson truly was a visionary....

Meh, hugely overrated album.

 

[Clinton Baptiste]

Meh, hugely overrated album.

I think what Yorkie is inferring is that Sgt Pepper came after Pet Sounds and it is well known that it inspired the making of the album. It was Revolver that Brian Wilson always cites as an influence on Pet Sounds. Either way both artists were way ahead of their time.

 

[BLUEBLOOD]

Coming from a relatively well off middle class family can't disguise the pain of the loss of his parents ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDVkkwl6aJo

Mother, you had me but I never had you,
I wanted you but you didn't want me,
So I got to tell you,
Goodbye, goodbye.
Farther, you left me but I never left you,
I needed you but you didn't need me,
So I got to tell you,
Goodbye, goodbye.
Children, don't do what I have done,
I couldn't walk and I tried to run,
So I got to tell you,
Goodbye, goodbye.
Mama don't go,
Daddy come home.
Mama don't go,
Daddy come home.
Mama don't go,
Daddy come home.
Mama don't go,
Daddy come home.
Mama don't go,
Daddy come home.
Mama don't go,
Daddy come home.
Mama don't go,
Daddy come home...