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Raoul Moat

Forums New posts
graysblue.jr said:
Again, without actually making it law, where everyone has to have psychiatric evaluations/assessments every X weeks/months, I don't think you'll ever be able to suss these people out. The only other way you'll get a 'heads-up' on a nutcase, is if someone close i.e. family/friends get an incling that they might be on the verge of losing it, and decides to report it to the correct people.

In the Moat case, the way I understand it, he flipped out 'cos he was dumped by his bird. I will admit I don't know a great deal about his background, whether he already had mental problems etc, but it seems to me just like a man pushed over the edge after being rejected. And that, you simply cannot predict or prevent. For arguements sake, if the OB had of taken him alive, how would top psychologists analyse this specific case? Birds shouldn't break up with their blokes? How can the top bods differentiate between guys who react sanely and who grab a shotgun? Similarly, how can you tell between quiet 'loner' people who are just shy/unsocial, and the one's who want to recreate Grand Theft Auto?

Lastly, prison rehabilitation is a load of bollocks. I know several people who've been inside, and came out even worse. The reason why? The law is very soft and prison is like a holiday camp (infact i'd go as far as saying Butlins is worse than prison) People don't fear prison anymore, and why would they when they get an Xbox, TV, top clobber etc. all for free.
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Why does it have to be as regular as that ? It is literally at your choice and plenty of people do put themselfs for self assessment, we would have more if it was less stigmatised but another issue .

Thats just it we don;t know the full back ground , but the thing that made him loose it was a psychological trigger , teh old straw that broke the camels back . There are plenty of signs when people go that far , maybe its a break down in our social structures that increase it , maybe its more neurological based who knows.

Body lanuague , i can tell teh differnce between shy low self esteem people and quiet observes (trained or not ) there's give away twichs how you hold yourself etc (yes they can be fooled but your talking extremely good acting skills in which case hey their some kind of pro ).

Rehabilitation works if you know what causes the problems. You have a set virus you know which anti-viral kills or makes you immune to it (yes that is a little simplistic). Prisons are or used to be one size fits all punishment and some of that still remains . Around 80% of young offender's have learning disabilities , they have no other way in some cases of making a living . Fear never work's breeds better and smarter criminals , like Darwinian evolution for crime.
 
MK Shrimper said:
I, and the vast majority of people on here certainly would. You can have all the "top clobber" in the world, but to be frank I'd rather have my freedom and be close to my family and not have the constant fear being bummed in the showers by Mr. Big.
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I thought that would be right up your street ;)

Serious though, youngsters, (even kids as young as 12-13) do not have fear. I know a fair few round here that are the same age as me, give or take a few years who wouldn't even be fazed by prison. Of course, many people, like yourself, don't want to end up in clink. I don't. But I hope you can grasp the idea that many people just don't care. It's just the way of the youth these days and how they've been dragged up (not brought up)
 
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osymandus said:
Why does it have to be as regular as that ? It is literally at your choice and plenty of people do put themselfs for self assessment, we would have more if it was less stigmatised but another issue .

Thats just it we don;t know the full back ground , but the thing that made him loose it was a psychological trigger , teh old straw that broke the camels back . There are plenty of signs when people go that far , maybe its a break down in our social structures that increase it , maybe its more neurological based who knows.

Body lanuague , i can tell teh differnce between shy low self esteem people and quiet observes (trained or not ) there's give away twichs how you hold yourself etc (yes they can be fooled but your talking extremely good acting skills in which case hey their some kind of pro ).

Rehabilitation works if you know what causes the problems. You have a set virus you know which anti-viral kills or makes you immune to it (yes that is a little simplistic). Prisons are or used to be one size fits all punishment and some of that still remains . Around 80% of young offender's have learning disabilities , they have no other way in some cases of making a living . Fear never work's breeds better and smarter criminals , like Darwinian evolution for crime.
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Rehabilitation works if you know what causes the problems. You have a set virus you know which anti-viral kills or makes you immune to it (yes that is a little simplistic). Prisons are or used to be one size fits all punishment and some of that still remains . Around 80% of young offender's have learning disabilities , they have no other way in some cases of making a living . Fear never work's breeds better and smarter criminals , like Darwinian evolution for crime.[/QUOTE]

But in Moat's case, he was released from prison (18 month stretch for assault) shortly before he went on the rampage. Upon release, you undergo a series of mental tests. Now why couldn't top psychologists suss out that this guy was still a danger? Prison (Rehab) didn't work in this case, if anything it made him a more dangerous human being. You can't rehabilitate someone who doesn't want to change. So what's to blame? I lay it at the door of the lightweight judicial system personally. As i've told you before in person, I think the justice system in this country is a load of bollocks.
 
graysblue.jr said:
Rehabilitation works if you know what causes the problems. You have a set virus you know which anti-viral kills or makes you immune to it (yes that is a little simplistic). Prisons are or used to be one size fits all punishment and some of that still remains . Around 80% of young offender's have learning disabilities , they have no other way in some cases of making a living . Fear never work's breeds better and smarter criminals , like Darwinian evolution for crime.

But in Moat's case, he was released from prison (18 month stretch for assault) shortly before he went on the rampage. Upon release, you undergo a series of mental tests. Now why couldn't top psychologists suss out that this guy was still a danger? Prison (Rehab) didn't work in this case, if anything it made him a more dangerous human being. You can't rehabilitate someone who doesn't want to change. So what's to blame? I lay it at the door of the lightweight judicial system personally. As i've told you before in person, I think the justice system in this country is a load of bollocks.
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' the thing the prison did in this case pass on teh information to the police . It snot the psych eval failed , its teh information wasn't acted upon. 18 months would have been him in his cell , usual routine for that prision maybe some short term psych eval not alot else .
I agree you cant catch everyone , as you say unless some people (and yes there really are those Hannibal lecture types in teh world ) want to be helped and refuse it there isnt anything you can do . Except learn to defend yourself ;)
 
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Tarquin Fauntleroy said:
Hey Chap!

I think you may be right, but I think it's more down to ignorance that not caring.
If these youngsters realised that after a stint in prison, they would be able to store a tube of Pringles up their arse, they'll change their tune.

Kind Regards
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Which begs the question,what flavour?
 
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