Napster
No ⭐
canveyshrimper - Vice Admiral Horatio Nelson, 1st Viscount Nelson, 1st Duke of Bronté, KB
v
Yorkshire Blue - Sir Ian Terence Botham OBE
v
Yorkshire Blue - Sir Ian Terence Botham OBE
-
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Rd 2 Heat 6 - Vice Admiral Horatio Nelson v Sir Ian Terence Botham OBE
- Thread starter Napster
- Start date
-
- Tags
- admiral canveyshrimper
Nelson: Kiss me Hardy
Botham: Kiss me Miss Barbados
Nelson: got his sailors to do all the fighting for him
Botham: floored the highly annoying Ian Chappell himself
Nelson: unable to grow mullet because of silly hat
Botham: legendary mullet
Nelson: one-eyed sailor
Botham: one-eyed commentator
Nelson: had the French firing stuff at him and unable to get out of the way and lost a leg
Botham: had the West Indies firing stuff at his head at 90mph and didn't even need a helmet
Nelson: when things got a bit sticky he died
Botham: when things got a bit sticky he hit a breath-taking 149* to turn the test and lived to tell the tale
Botham: Kiss me Miss Barbados
Nelson: got his sailors to do all the fighting for him
Botham: floored the highly annoying Ian Chappell himself
Nelson: unable to grow mullet because of silly hat
Botham: legendary mullet
Nelson: one-eyed sailor
Botham: one-eyed commentator
Nelson: had the French firing stuff at him and unable to get out of the way and lost a leg
Botham: had the West Indies firing stuff at his head at 90mph and didn't even need a helmet
Nelson: when things got a bit sticky he died
Botham: when things got a bit sticky he hit a breath-taking 149* to turn the test and lived to tell the tale
leeblue
Members⭐
Although a massive fan of beefy, still have to pick horatio, our nation and europes history would be very different if not for this man
canveyshrimper
R.I.P
:D Great bit of advocacy Matt.
A shame this one of all time sporting heroes against one of English history's heroes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horatio_Nelson
Nelson won some of the great sea battles in history, probably the most epic being the Battle of the Nile in 1798 when he sealed the fate of Napoleon's army in Egypt by cutting off their supply lines by sea from France.
A few years later he kicked the arses of the Danes at the battle of Copenhagen. In between battles he found time to dally with Lady Emma Hamilton a renoened society beauty of the time.
He took over the blockade of Cadiz in 1805 and as the Spanish & French fleets tried to escape the blockade the British fleet engaged them in battle and in all probablity gave Britain it's greatest victory at sea. Sadly Nelson didn't live to see the final victory.
IMO there should be a Trafalgar Day in memory of this great victory, and if that upsets the French & Spanish then so much the better.
Sorry Beefy, but vote Nelson.
CarrowRoad_Hero
Youth Team
Although Beefy was my cricket idol growing up, Horatio gets my vote by a country mile.
On a more serious note, I think this clash throws up the issue of what is heroic. Is heroic the slaughter of thousands of innocents? Or is it trying to improve the lives of those less fortunate than yourselves?
I find it hard to put Nelson up on a pedestal, someone who authorised the slaughter at Naples, despite the Neapolitans having surrendered. I find it much easier to make a hero out of Botham, someone whose actions on a cricket field hurt no-one and whose contributions to charity has helped improve the lives of many.
Nelson might be excused for his role in the atrocities at Naples if judging him on the standard of his day, but when judging him on the standards of today, he's not a hero for me. What happened at Naples was despicable and in no way heroic. The murder, theft, rape and pillage isn't in my eyes the stuff heroes are made of. I'd far rather reserve that honour for those who walk the length and breadth of Britain to help others.
I find it hard to put Nelson up on a pedestal, someone who authorised the slaughter at Naples, despite the Neapolitans having surrendered. I find it much easier to make a hero out of Botham, someone whose actions on a cricket field hurt no-one and whose contributions to charity has helped improve the lives of many.
Nelson might be excused for his role in the atrocities at Naples if judging him on the standard of his day, but when judging him on the standards of today, he's not a hero for me. What happened at Naples was despicable and in no way heroic. The murder, theft, rape and pillage isn't in my eyes the stuff heroes are made of. I'd far rather reserve that honour for those who walk the length and breadth of Britain to help others.
canveyshrimper
R.I.P
Fair point, however and without ever wanting to justify war, events such as Naples will always happen.
You can argue was there justification of the destruction of Dresden & Hamburg when WWII was virtually won by the Allies. Or that there was no justification in dropping the atom bomb on Hiroshima or Nagasaki. Both events certainly shortened the wars in Europe & the Pacific and no doubt saved many Allied lives as result.
There are numerous other such cases throughout history, however the winners or commanders of battles are generally deemed as heroes, to the victor the spoils.
You can argue was there justification of the destruction of Dresden & Hamburg when WWII was virtually won by the Allies. Or that there was no justification in dropping the atom bomb on Hiroshima or Nagasaki. Both events certainly shortened the wars in Europe & the Pacific and no doubt saved many Allied lives as result.
There are numerous other such cases throughout history, however the winners or commanders of battles are generally deemed as heroes, to the victor the spoils.
Napster
No ⭐
To be fair, promotion up the naval ladder was in accordance with seniority in the rank of Post-Captain, and rank was held for life, so the only way to get promoted was for the person above you on the list to die or resign.
steveo
mine to stay the same please
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2005
- Messages
- 7,545
All valid points. However, Nelson was a leader of men. Bothams stint as Captain of England in 12 Tests, ended with 8 draws and 4 losses.
chadded
Not striking since 2004
How anyone can describe Ian Botham as a hero is beyond me. Really is. He was good at cricket. I'm good at w*nking, and I know which one is most common.
Nelson is a military hero. If you are going to compare, then Botham isn't even fit to clean Nelson's column.
Rule Britannia, Britannia rules the waves!!
Nelson is a military hero. If you are going to compare, then Botham isn't even fit to clean Nelson's column.
Rule Britannia, Britannia rules the waves!!
Uncle Leo
This cook is an anti-semite
Forget the cricket for a moment though and you've got the massive amounts of money he has raised for Leukemia Research. I think YB mentioned it on a prior thread as being over £100m. That has to be admired.
chadded
Not striking since 2004
In the harshest possible way, walking from Lands End to John O Groats isn't hard. It's not exactly fun, but people walk every day. Granted not that far, but you get my meaning. If he did it carrying 50kgs of weight, or backwards etc ( do you get my drift?) then it be more impressive. Yes, the amount of money raised is impressive, but a celebrity doing something for charity is always going to raise lots of money and lots of media awareness, by virtue of the fact that a celebrity is involved.
Uncle Leo
This cook is an anti-semite
Drift got and it's a fair point. However...
You probably don't remember the first one he did, back in the mid-1980s (you young git). That really was something else at the time, way beyond what we were used to famous people doing. Yes I know that as far as feats of endurance go it's not up there with climbing Everest in your pants, but the fact is he did it. Time and time again - not taking the easy option of just fronting a few tv appeals.
chadded
Not striking since 2004
I agree with what you say, but it cuts nothing with me. Yes, I'm going to be extremely bias towards the following example, but IMO doing the London marathon on crutches after being told you'll never walk again, (Maj Phil Packer) is 100 times more heroic than a cricketer going for a stroll.
Botham's losses are dwarfed by Nelson's losses.
Botham lost 4 times, Nelson lost thousands of men.
If it isn't hard, why don't you do it?
C'mon people make love (to a Miss World contestant) not war!
canveyshrimper
R.I.P
No mate, they're a blood thirsty lot on here.
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