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RHB

Super Moderator ⭐
Staff member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
21,978
Location
Westcliff riviera
Chris Phillips ‏@CJPhillips1982 26m26 minutes ago Think someone just asked Phil Brown how many men Rochdale should have ended the game with.



C2KQt45WIAAzsTP.jpg
 

manor15

Super Moderator⭐
Staff member
Joined
Aug 13, 2008
Messages
8,288
He did, but it's only a yellow card offence, unless on the goal-line, for deliberate handball and I didn't think it was deliberate.

More a case of trying to control a fast moving ball and it catching the top of your arm, rather than your chest.
Think the point is that this was his fourth foul having already been booked. On the third occasion he brought the captain over and I assume made it very clear he would be off for another foul, then bottled it when the moment came. Undermined himself completely.
 

AndyT

Lord of the Reedy River
Joined
Aug 7, 2010
Messages
11,936
Location
Hockley
Agreed.

I did say, earlier, that if we are judging the handball on the incident itself, it's not a yellow and I would say was more accidental than deliberate.

However, him staying on the pitch, previous to that, is the debatable point.
 

LBBlue

Manager⭐
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
2,850
Location
Rye Sussex
I think his main problem was that he wasn't fit enough to keep up with play so was guessing what happened from too far away and was far too easily led by the reactions of players from both sides. I think our first goal was from a poor back pass, their sending off could easily just have been a booking on another day as the ball was going away from goal. McGlashen's first yellow he certainly played the ball but went in too strongly, the second was never a yellow -Henderson bought the foul by stepping in front of the rapidly moving McGlashen - he did not tug him - he just got mugged.

The referee had no chance of knowing whether Lund handled it - Lund was between him and the ball - it wasn't deliberate and the lino eventually told him that.

All game he was giving what he thought he saw. We only conceded 7 fouls all game.
 

A Century United

Firewalking for HD
Joined
Jan 26, 2007
Messages
10,004
He did, but it's only a yellow card offence, unless on the goal-line, for deliberate handball and I didn't think it was deliberate.

More a case of trying to control a fast moving ball and it catching the top of your arm, rather than your chest.

It's only handball if the ref perceives it to be deliberate.

The law really needs to change, so that any hand/ball contact is a non-yellow card (and if in the area, non-penalty) offence penalised with a free kick unless it is clearly deliberate. Will remove all this complete nonsense about "arms/hands in unnatural positions" that is used as a proxy for intent.
 

Lord Zoltan

Youth Team
Joined
Sep 17, 2007
Messages
235
It's only handball if the ref perceives it to be deliberate.

The law really needs to change, so that any hand/ball contact is a non-yellow card (and if in the area, non-penalty) offence penalised with a free kick unless it is clearly deliberate. Will remove all this complete nonsense about "arms/hands in unnatural positions" that is used as a proxy for intent.

From where I was sitting it was clearly deliberate.
 

fbm

Blue tinted optimist⭐
Joined
Oct 28, 2003
Messages
8,753
Location
Cloud cuckoo land
I think his main problem was that he wasn't fit enough to keep up with play so was guessing what happened from too far away and was far too easily led by the reactions of players from both sides. I think our first goal was from a poor back pass, their sending off could easily just have been a booking on another day as the ball was going away from goal. McGlashen's first yellow he certainly played the ball but went in too strongly, the second was never a yellow -Henderson bought the foul by stepping in front of the rapidly moving McGlashen - he did not tug him - he just got mugged.

The referee had no chance of knowing whether Lund handled it - Lund was between him and the ball - it wasn't deliberate and the lino eventually told him that.

All game he was giving what he thought he saw. We only conceded 7 fouls all game.

Only because Fortune was taking it around the defender. If he gets clear he is on goal at about a 45 degree angle... an absolute goal scoring opportunity.
 

londonblue

Topgun Pilot
Joined
Feb 18, 2004
Messages
16,170
Are any refs going to contribute to this? I personally thought he was poor, but I often think that only to come on here and see a different viewpoint/interpretation which I genuinely find interesting.
 

cerbera45

Coach⭐
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
1,776
Mr Lewis' main claim to fame is the fact that he was the assistant referee involved in the incredible decision when Tottenham's Pedro Mendes' long shot at Old Trafford was about two yards over the line but no goal was given.
just about sums it up for me
 

A Century United

Firewalking for HD
Joined
Jan 26, 2007
Messages
10,004
From where I was sitting it was clearly deliberate.

I wasn't arguing that it wasn't, I was saying that the point being made about the yellow card for deliberate handball was misguided, because it can only be penalised at all (according to the laws) if it is deliberate.
 

Mick

Life President
Joined
Oct 28, 2003
Messages
10,098
I wasn't arguing that it wasn't, I was saying that the point being made about the yellow card for deliberate handball was misguided, because it can only be penalised at all (according to the laws) if it is deliberate.

There is no mandatory yellow card for "deliberate handball". Indeed, as pointed out above, all handballs have to, by definition, be deliberate. (There are some mealy mouthed guidelines provided which go on about unnatural arm and hand positions and are intended to help the referee in his interpretation of "deliberate".)

A caution for unsporting conduct could include:

* a handball to break up a promising position for the opposition

* attempting to score a goal by handling

* a failed attempt to prevent a goal by handling

So an attempt to trap the ball which turns into handball does not qualify for a caution.

However it could have been the final straw which brought about a second caution for persistently infringing the laws of the game.
 

Jay_SUFC

Manager⭐
Joined
Jun 20, 2010
Messages
2,509
No, not even close. Simon Hooper in the playoff final warranted 7 pages !!

Everytime I see that guys name I shudder; idiot nearly cost us promotion (which could have ended up costing PB his job!!)
 

fbm

Blue tinted optimist⭐
Joined
Oct 28, 2003
Messages
8,753
Location
Cloud cuckoo land
There is no mandatory yellow card for "deliberate handball". Indeed, as pointed out above, all handballs have to, by definition, be deliberate. (There are some mealy mouthed guidelines provided which go on about unnatural arm and hand positions and are intended to help the referee in his interpretation of "deliberate".)

A caution for unsporting conduct could include:

* a handball to break up a promising position for the opposition

* attempting to score a goal by handling

* a failed attempt to prevent a goal by handling

So an attempt to trap the ball which turns into handball does not qualify for a caution.

However it could have been the final straw which brought about a second caution for persistently infringing the laws of the game.

Mick, as a matter of interest, do you ever comment on the performance of the ref afterwards? I must admit, it would be nice to get post match qualified views on here as we fans see it completely differently.
 
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