Rochester & Strood by-election

[Tangled up in Blue]

Not any more - we both would have failed the MOT.

The second part of my statement is still true though.:smile:

 

[callan]

Or posting a photo of two Tory MPs and then the same two people as UKIP MPs and claiming a political revolution - to illustrate how thick they think the whole of the electorate are?

If you were right of course...the outcome in both bi elections would have been different, the outcome in the European elections would have been different...perhaps you need to get used to the fact that UKIP now represent the working class.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

If you were right of course...the outcome in both bi elections would have been different, the outcome in the European elections would have been different...perhaps you need to get used to the fact that UKIP now represent the working class.

:hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious:


If you really think that UKIP now represents the working class, perhaps you could explain why they're doing so badly in London and the London Boroughs?

Even the BNP won council seats in Barking.

On QT in Romford last night I was pleased to see there were no obvious kippers in the audience.

 

[Carry On Shrimping]

I do pilates so I'm about as far away from white van working class man as a member of the shadow cabinet but according to a you gov poll for the times this week more white working class voters see UKIP as more in touch with them than any other party..

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-...-Labour-as-Party-of-the-White-Working-Classes

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

There's no question that UKIP will get a lot of working class votes in rock-solid Labour constituencies in the North/Midlands but they won't win any seats there.

They'll have to kick a few Tories out of safe seats in Kent and Essex (and maybe Norfolk) for that (unless they can rely on more Tory defections to do the job for them, of course).

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

If you were right of course...the outcome in both bi elections would have been different, the outcome in the European elections would have been different...perhaps you need to get used to the fact that UKIP now represent the working class.

Not sure on your logic there - an MP retaining their seat proves nothing other than the fact that the voters were happy enough to retain their MP.

Periferal parties always do better in the Euro elections.

 

[Napster]

Not sure on your logic there - an MP retaining their seat proves nothing other than the fact that the voters were happy enough to retain their MP.

Periferal parties always do better in the Euro elections.

I like the idea of feral parties.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Peripheral - why did the technology not change it for me? Most of the UKIP candidates are pretty feral which is why they work on aquiring defections so they look a little professional. I swear the crack fox was a candidate for one of the council seats...

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I like the idea of feral parties.

We already have a "feral rat" on here.:winking:

 

[londonblue]

If you were right of course...the outcome in both bi elections would have been different, the outcome in the European elections would have been different...perhaps you need to get used to the fact that UKIP now represent the working class.

When you say bi election, I presume you mean by-election...unless you know something about the candidates that we don't?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

When you say bi election, I presume you mean by-election...unless you know something about the candidates that we don't?

If you were right of course...the outcome in both bi elections would have been different, the outcome in the European elections would have been different...perhaps you need to get used to the fact that UKIP now represent the working class.

Personally,I'm more interested in the second part of Callan's assertion.

I'd like to see some valid evidence for this ridiculous claim and not just one recent, yougov poll either,commissioned on behalf of that well-known friend of the working class,the Times.

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-...-Labour-as-Party-of-the-White-Working-Classes

Incidentally,isn't the working class also comprised of non-white voters these days?

 

[callan]

:hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious:


If you really think that UKIP now represents the working class, perhaps you could explain why they're doing so badly in London and the London Boroughs?

Even the BNP won council seats in Barking.

On QT in Romford last night I was pleased to see there were no obvious kippers in the audience.

I won't deny that UKIPS success in London has not matched it's results elsewhere, I think that there are very good reasons for this, some political and others to do more with infrastructure, London having its own Mayor, in addition to being geared up historically to receive large numbers of immigrants (East End of London is a typical example of this).

Elsewhere in the country I believe we see a different story, where services and infrastructure that have never had to cope with such vast numbers arriving, have simply not coped.

Failure to plan ahead for mass immigration , which whether under Tory or Labour governments they simply have failed to do, which in my experience is more keenly felt outside of London.

Historically there has always been a North / South divide, I think we are now starting to see a more London / rest of England divide.

If you are working class in Kings Lynn you will see a more negative impact of what is happening in regards to immigration than if you come from or live in London.

You have already acknowledged that UKIP will do well in what can be considered Labour strongholds, with UKIP taking what historically would be nailed on votes from them, that's before we venture North of the Border and see Labours support deserting them in droves to the Nationalist party.

Why if Labour represent truly represent the Working class would this be happening, or do you believe that the working class only exist in London?

Labour no longer have the Prescotts / Johnsons / straws that may have appealed in the past to working class voters, what we have now representing them are the Millibands / Thornberries / Balls etc that are so far removed in background than the people they purport to represent it's untrue.

Not sure what you mean by your comment that 'even the BNP won council seats in Barking', is it that Bnp supporters are more likely to vote Labour than UKIP?

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

The UKIP representative put the lack of London votes down to the fact that Londoners are educated and cultured of course.

the lack of planning ahead for immigration I think is a valid point but it has been a lack of planning ahead for any kind of population growth - neither of the last two governments have put house building prorams into place and affordable housing is a falicy. There has been little planning for the ageing population either - the Tories hospital closures making the situation worse.

BNP vote was chased out of Barking by Margret Hodge with the assistance of Hope Not Hate. I would say that the vast majority of BNP votes would switch to UKIP as they are both seen as anti immigration parties and protest votes - that section of the voting public is an easy win for UKIP surely?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

If you are working class in Kings Lynn you will see a more negative impact of what is happening in regards to immigration than if you come from or live in London.

IIRC,the proportion of immigrants in Clacton was something like 0.3 % of the electorate-and I believe there was a similar proportion in Rochester and Stroud.

In other words,these are precisely areas which have no real experience of mass immigration,unlike London,Birmingham,Leicester, etc

Not sure what you mean by your comment that 'even the BNP won council seats in Barking', is it that Bnp supporters are more likely to vote Labour than UKIP?

If an openly racist party like the BNP can win seats in Barking,how come UKIP can't?

 

[londonblue]

If an openly racist party like the BNP can win seats in Barking,how come UKIP can't?

Because they're not openly racist!

 

[callan]

The UKIP representative put the lack of London votes down to the fact that Londoners are educated and cultured of course.

the lack of planning ahead for immigration I think is a valid point but it has been a lack of planning ahead for any kind of population growth - neither of the last two governments have put house building prorams into place and affordable housing is a falicy. There has been little planning for the ageing population either - the Tories hospital closures making the situation worse.

BNP vote was chased out of Barking by Margret Hodge with the assistance of Hope Not Hate. I would say that the vast majority of BNP votes would switch to UKIP as they are both seen as anti immigration parties and protest votes - that section of the voting public is an easy win for UKIP surely?

What was actually said;

Suzanne Evans says, unlike Ukip, capital's young educated population can't understand heartache felt by rest of country.

UKIP are in favour of controlled immigration...this is well documented, arguing that rather than let everyone in we control it and bring in the people we need.

That isn't anti immigration, it's common sense.

If anyone was responsible for the rise of the BNP it was Labours which they admitted to at the time.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-Darling-Labour-to-blame-for-BNP-success.html


It's interesting that you see planning ahead for population growth as a valid point, how do you propose to that when you simply don't know how many are coming in addition to where they will end up?

 

[callan]

If an openly racist party like the BNP can win seats in Barking,how come UKIP can't?

They didnt vote UKIP though did they?

Labour were voted in...are you saying that Labour are Racist?

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

They didnt vote UKIP though did they?

Labour were voted in...are you saying that Labour are Racist?

I think a lot of lapsed Labour voters / people that didn't bother to vote as Labour would previously get in without them needing to vote started to vote again to rid the area of the BNP. Labour got more of their voters out rather than BNP voters switching to Labour.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

What was actually said;

Suzanne Evans says, unlike Ukip, capital's young educated population can't understand heartache felt by rest of country.

UKIP are in favour of controlled immigration...this is well documented, arguing that rather than let everyone in we control it and bring in the people we need.

That isn't anti immigration, it's common sense.

If anyone was responsible for the rise of the BNP it was Labours which they admitted to at the time.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-Darling-Labour-to-blame-for-BNP-success.html


It's interesting that you see planning ahead for population growth as a valid point, how do you propose to that when you simply don't know how many are coming in addition to where they will end up?

Suzanne Evans, a former Tory Merton councillor who defected to Ukip but lost her seat, told the BBC: "[In London, voters] are more likely, I think, to have read some of the negative press that's been about us, and I think they'd be more likely to believe it, whereas people outside of London have, I think, been fairly cynical about the media campaign and the campaign that the other parties have waged against us."


She suggested the "educated, cultured and young" in the capital were less likely to vote for Ukip, and claimed the party was unlike the "metropolitan elite" in being able to understand the "heartache" felt by the rest of England.

 

[callan]

I think a lot of lapsed Labour voters / people that didn't bother to vote as Labour would previously get in without them needing to vote started to vote again to rid the area of the BNP. Labour got more of their voters out rather than BNP voters switching to Labour.

Are you saying then that the BNP vote held up?