Ron Martin and Delancey

[McNasty]

eh? I'm only asking questions Ken?

And im only posting public information.

That's fine then.

 

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

That was my perception... Next step - find out what the limitations are of a disqualification order :)

I like the way you're getting there very slowly, using lots of suspense, before you nail you know who, sort of Columbo style.

 

[Andyhsufc]

That was my perception... Next step - find out what the limitations are of a disqualification order :)

A disqualification order is made by the court under the Company Directors Disqualification Act 1986. The Act applies not only to a person who has been formally appointed as a director but also to those people who have carried out the functions of a director and to shadow directors.

Without specific permission of the court, it disqualifies a person from:

*acting as a director of a company
*taking part, directly or indirectly, in the promotion, formation or management of a company
*being a liquidator or an administrator of a company
*being a receiver or manager of a company's property.

It can last from 2 to 15 years

 

[J]

Very Interesting indeed... ok - that's all for tonight - many thanks all.

 

[Smudger]

Oh! OK, J. Thought you were getting at something, but not saying it. Everything is sooooooo shady.

What do you mean by that?

 

[Firestorm]

Delancy are ban enormous organisation , formed by Jamie Ritblat his father John and Greorge Soros.

As well established and well known property developers they gave assistance and financial backing to smaller property developers who had ideas of a big project . MD had a link with Delancey for this purpose and RM got Colin Wagman involved when he needed support innthe take over of SUFC from VJ.
Delancey, however, were only in it for a return on their investment, and when it failed to materialise (the development took longer to appear than they wanted} RM managed to get enough funds together to buy out Delanceys original investment.

I don't think the relationship between the two companies has been quite the same since, and Wagmans contempt for the way John Main ran SUFC and the inistance in withholding future investments unless we has dismissed (at the time of the last winding up order) would not have helped

 

[Hotman]

That was my perception... Next step - find out what the limitations are of a disqualification order :)

If he were to be bankrupt *** ****** could act as director, when discharged. The main risk would be if there was any reason for him to be disqualified, although often people act as shadow directors in these circumstances.

 

[The Big Shrimp]

The worrying thing about RM's companies is the number he has dissolved, at least six, although I can't remember how many have gone bust.

Lets not lose sight of the fact that RM is about making money for himself & his companies, if it benefits SUFC then thats a bonus. He will continue to make loads of money from FF when it eventually gets built. SUFC is the vehicle that is going to make rich beyond his wildest dreams. He might be a ****, but he isn't stupid!

 

[Hotman]

The worrying thing about RM's companies is the number he has dissolved, at least six, although I can't remember how many have gone bust.

Lets not lose sight of the fact that RM is about making money for himself & his companies, if it benefits SUFC then thats a bonus. He will continue to make loads of money from FF when it eventually gets built. SUFC is the vehicle that is going to make rich beyond his wildest dreams. He might be a ****, but he isn't stupid!

I've probably dissolved 5 or six companies - none of them owed a penny to anyone, just trades that didn't start properly in the way I'd like them to, or businesses that didn't get off the ground. All self funded, and there's no reason to doubt RM's companies unless there is evidence of liquidators / administrators in teh companies histories.

However - I am really concerned about the current situation. There is a genuine risk of RM allowing SUFC to be wound up, accelerating the sale of RH to Sainsburys, and then allowing him to create a bigger retail park at FF, perhaps more hotel rooms ... more profitable than a failing football club. And he won't look the bad guy as he is now the biggest creditor of SUFC, not the tax office.

 

[The Big Shrimp]

I've probably dissolved 5 or six companies - none of them owed a penny to anyone, just trades that didn't start properly in the way I'd like them to, or businesses that didn't get off the ground. All self funded, and there's no reason to doubt RM's companies unless there is evidence of liquidators / administrators in teh companies histories.

However - I am really concerned about the current situation. There is a genuine risk of RM allowing SUFC to be wound up, accelerating the sale of RH to Sainsburys, and then allowing him to create a bigger retail park at FF, perhaps more hotel rooms ... more profitable than a failing football club. And he won't look the bad guy as he is now the biggest creditor of SUFC, not the tax office.

I don't have the info to hand, but I think they were mainly "building type" companies. In all fairness some may have been set up for a particular project, but I very much doubt they all were.

If like you say "just trades that didn't start properly in the way I'd like them to, or businesses that didn't get off the ground" would he dump us in the brown stuff very quickly?

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

The worrying thing about RM's companies is the number he has dissolved, at least six, although I can't remember how many have gone bust.

Lets not lose sight of the fact that RM is about making money for himself & his companies, if it benefits SUFC then thats a bonus. He will continue to make loads of money from FF when it eventually gets built. SUFC is the vehicle that is going to make rich beyond his wildest dreams. He might be a ****, but he isn't stupid!

Please explain why is this a worrying thing?

 

[Dick Bate's Protege]

I don't have the info to hand, but I think they were mainly "building type" companies. In all fairness some may have been set up for a particular project, but I very much doubt they all were.

If like you say "just trades that didn't start properly in the way I'd like them to, or businesses that didn't get off the ground" would he dump us in the brown stuff very quickly?

My own experiences with people that set up different companies for particular projects have been costly. By running a business in this way it allows you walk away from one but protect the others, usually at the cost of your sub-contractors.

My company worked for a builder who changed their name according to the project and one of their facets went into administration at the outset of the recession. Having avoided sub-contractor bills of approx £250,000, they came along a year later and formed another company which bought back the project at a reduced price (with a quarter of a million pounds worth of goods and work already on site). If that's the way he conducts business then it worries the **** out of me.

 

[The Big Shrimp]

Please explain why is this a worrying thing?

err because thats potentially six companies that have failed & have been dumped through not making a profit. if you want to take it to extremes see Dick Bate's example.

I deal with a lot of people in the construction & their situation is so iffy. Even the big boys are struggling!

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

err because thats potentially six companies that have failed & have been dumped through not making a profit. if you want to take it to extremes see Dick Bate's example.

I deal with a lot of people in the construction & their situation is so iffy. Even the big boys are struggling!

Does this not suggest that RM knows what he's doing?

In any case we don't know if this is 6 out of how many and over what time period. If these companies failed in the 70s or 80s that probably doesn't have much relevance to now. If they were 6 out of 100, that doesn't mean much either, especially as companies might have been dissolved for perfectly valid reasons, such as the project was completed.

Contrary to what some people think, I'm not afraid to have a go at Ron, but let's please base it on proper hard evidence, not supposition.

 

[dloman]

There can be numerous reasons for liquidating a company, i have done it many times myself. Firstly for the reason that the company has served its purpose and sometimes they have been set up to do a particular job that just happens never to get off the ground for whatever reason.

Also bear in mind it only costs around £100 to set one up and even if it isn't trading you still have to file yearly accounts, and for a non trading company this can be costly, so it make sense to liquidate it.

 

[The Big Shrimp]

The point I'm trying to make is RM would not be scared to dump a company that is not making money. I doubt he would treat SUFC any different other than he knows he would be able to find a few buyers.

I don't recall seeing RM at RH much before he bought the club. Does anybody know if he's a Southender or is he from the West Country where a lot of his business interests are or have been.

 

[Firestorm]

I don't recall seeing RM at RH much before he bought the club. Does anybody know if he's a Southender or is he from the West Country where a lot of his business interests are or have been.

Cheap shot, it has been reported on numerous occasions in the 10 years or so that MD have been involved that RM was not a football man at the outset.
Nor was John Main and he was forced out by Wagman because he had "turned native"
RM has made no pretentions that his initial investments were made purely as a business venture.

As for dissolving companies, when small companies are taken over the business is often merged with the taking over organisation, the redundant shell is then dissolved.

I would be far more wary of the number of companies that were liquidated as opposed to dissolved

 

[The Big Shrimp]

Not a cheap shot, just another point to show that he does not have the ingrained loyalty or love for the club we support. Therefore, as I keep saying, he would have no qualms in dumping SUFC, if needed or wanted to for purely business reasons.

 

[canveyshrimper]

Not a cheap shot, just another point to show that he does not have the ingrained loyalty or love for the club we support. Therefore, as I keep saying, he would have no qualms in dumping SUFC, if needed or wanted to for purely business reasons.

Possibly taking this a little off topic, I'd be interested to know how many chairmen / owners of football clubs are actually supporters of said club, with that ingrained loyalty & love of the club. I reckon there aren't many.

 

[BrettieAngell]

Possibly taking this a little off topic, I'd be interested to know how many chairmen / owners of football clubs are actually supporters of said club, with that ingrained loyalty & love of the club. I reckon there aren't many.

I was listening to a debate on 606 t'toerh day about thsie xact subject.

Would you want a chairman who is a fan and might let his heart rule his head (Ron after the succesive promotions??) or a businessman who will do the best for the club (Ron now??).