Ron Martin speaks to Chris Phillips

[RHB]

Yep i know that very well, we are under one from the EFL but due to a request from the HMRC. I assumed everyone knew that, next time i will be clearer

Sorry, how I phrased that probably sounded a bit pompous, it wasn't meant to. What I meant is that nowhere have I read that HMRC approached the EFL to take those steps. If we are in arrears to them their recovery procedures are internal via their Debt Management Unit. Now, if I'm wrong please put me right.

 

[WESTY_SUFC]

All this talk of promotion and relegation offers very little solution to the problem that Ron runs this club at a huge loss every single year and has no evident strategy in turning that around for 22 years. He is clearly not trustworthy to put it politely. He is killing our club.

 

[Westcliff DGS]

Sorry, how I phrased that probably sounded a bit pompous, it wasn't meant to. What I meant is that nowhere have I read that HMRC approached the EFL to take those steps. If we are in arrears to them their recovery procedures are internal via their Debt Management Unit. Now, if I'm wrong please put me right.

Ron stated in his interview they got us embargoed.

Howeever, via my day to day work, i can say the HMRC have on occasion approached the league to see what can be done, they are quite active these days as they are fed up with clubs taking the mickey out of them and finding ways around paying. The HMRC will usually go via the court, but if a club has also not paid in the month prior the hearing that is resolved they will contact the EFL as well as filing for a hearing. I would assume this is the case this time, as otherwise settling the amount in Jan would have allowed transactions to be done (unless the league took action over non payment). My GUESS would be that the EFL looked at the late payment of salaries in December and with the discussion with HMRC decided to enforce an embargo to ensure we were being bought into line

 

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

It's about time the bosses in football got together and made sure more money comes down from the greedy Premiership and the greedy players. So many clubs are in trouble below the Premiership. Even Charlton are now losing 10 Million a year. It's just getting more and more crazy, and unsustainable.

 

[rigsby]

All this talk of promotion and relegation offers very little solution to the problem that Ron runs this club at a huge loss every single year and has no evident strategy in turning that around for 22 years. He is clearly not trustworthy to put it politely. He is killing our club.

How would you have dealt with the Sainsburys saga.?

 

[RHB]

Ron stated in his interview they got us embargoed.

Howeever, via my day to day work, i can say the HMRC have on occasion approached the league to see what can be done, they are quite active these days as they are fed up with clubs taking the mickey out of them and finding ways around paying. The HMRC will usually go via the court, but if a club has also not paid in the month prior the hearing that is resolved they will contact the EFL as well as filing for a hearing. I would assume this is the case this time, as otherwise settling the amount in Jan would have allowed transactions to be done (unless the league took action over non payment). My GUESS would be that the EFL looked at the late payment of salaries in December and with the discussion with HMRC decided to enforce an embargo to ensure we were being bought into line

Yeah, that sounds feasible. The Revenue approaching the EFL is quite recent though I would imagine. Back in the day when I had to work for my living I had the misfortune to be absorbed by the Revenue when Customs & Excise 'merged' with them. So 9 years ago I had a pretty accurate idea of how debt magaement worked. They have now obviously developed more indirect approaches to collecting revenue.

 

[Chrisb]

I am sooooo confused

View attachment 11259

Interesting that he says 'they got us embargoed again' so it's HMRC that have brought this about before ?

 

[Westcliff DGS]

Yeah, that sounds feasible. The Revenue approaching the EFL is quite recent though I would imagine. Back in the day when I had to work for my living I had the misfortune to be absorbed by the Revenue when Customs & Excise 'merged' with them. So 9 years ago I had a pretty accurate idea of how debt magaement worked. They have now obviously developed more indirect approaches to collecting revenue.

Started to happen in the least 18 months or so.

 

[The Late One]

Salford can have as much money ploughed in as they can get as they don't have to worry about the FFP rules until after their 2nd season in the EFL

 

[stortford]

I think this overlooks that with normal debts/bills you get the invoice, you can't pay on time, you get a reminder, then a phone call, then you agree when you can pay. Everyday reality in a lot of businesses. HMRC expect to be paid exactly on time. No second invoice, no discussion, .

You are not comparing like with like. Payment dates to HMRC for VAT & employer's PAYE deductions are set by Parliament via the PAYE & VAT regulations etc and known in advance to every employer / VAT registered trader. They don't need a reminder and they are also properly never part of the employer or trader's own funds but clearly identifiable moneys the country has decided the employer or trader should collect on their behalf. I am not arguing whether that is fair or not but it is fact. And yes I know many traders abuse it and use the funds to help their cashflow but if they do they know there are consequences, interest, penalties, sanctions by trade bodies.

 

[fbm]

Almost all these problems are caused directly by Ron abysmal financial mismanagement. Ok, maybe we were several £m in debt before but nothing close to what we are now. He is totally responsible for debt creation and change of asset ownership for his own personal benefit. Not the club's. I'd he cared why not put roots hall and the training ground back into Southend United name!

All this talk of promotion and relegation offers very little solution to the problem that Ron runs this club at a huge loss every single year and has no evident strategy in turning that around for 22 years. He is clearly not trustworthy to put it politely. He is killing our club.

@WESTY_SUFC Can you explain how this works then? How can he run the club at a loss every year, create debt over his own assets yet still personally benefit?

 

[WESTY_SUFC]

@WESTY_SUFC Can you explain how this works then? How can he run the club at a loss every year, create debt over his own assets yet still personally benefit?

Easy. Accumulate all your debt in one company making all your others look profitable then wind that one up or sell off when the debts get called in by 3rd parties.

 

[Barry.C]

Salford can have as much money ploughed in as they can get as they don't have to worry about the FFP rules until after their 2nd season in the EFL

Thats interesting , but would you rather have there backers and the money behind them or Ron

 

[fbm]

Easy. Accumulate all your debt in one company making all your others look profitable then wind that one up or sell off when the debts get called in by 3rd parties.

So who's the lender that will allow a mountain of debt to accrue unsecured against a company? And how does that personally benefit Ron?

 

[Cricko]

A simple question picked from this thread. Why would you charge one of your own skint companies SUFC 450k a year rent for the ground whilst on the other hand apparently dig deep in your own pocket (another company you own) to the tune of 200k a month to loan to that very same company.

Over a say 10 year period that is 4.5 million alone in rent due to you and God knows how much in loans.

You could create a sizeable debt owed to you on paper.

 

[Westcliff DGS]

A simple question picked from this thread. Why would you charge one of your own skint companies SUFC 450k a year rent for the ground whilst on the other hand apparently dig deep in your own pocket (another company you own) to the tune of 200k a month to loan to that very same company.

Over a say 10 year period that is 4.5 million alone in rent due to you and God knows how much in loans.

You could create a sizeable debt owed to you on paper.

This is a total guess, but if you dont then haven’t you done what derby and Wednesday have done. They sold their grounds for way above value to another company in the group, and now being charged for FFP breaches based in that. If he doesn’t charge the rent then in effect we are doing that as well by saying that money each month. Just a guess though

 

[davewebbsbrain]

There already is one close to Fossetts, Southend Leisure and Tennis. A great public and membership pool. Tom Daley used the diving facilities a lot when practising for a Championship.

Shame the public can't. Been they're more than once when it was supposed to be open to the public but the diving pool was closed due to lack of staff.

 

[Cricko]

This is a total guess, but if you dont then haven’t you done what derby and Wednesday have done. They sold their grounds for way above value to another company in the group, and now being charged for FFP breaches based in that. If he doesn’t charge the rent then in effect we are doing that as well by saying that money each month. Just a guess though

Thanks for that. I have no idea, maybe the recent millions he moved from the SUFC debt was just dumping the old rent charges he knew he didnt have a hope in hell of ever getting back to make the books look nicer for those nice foreign chaps who were sniffing about. Paper shifting at it's best.

 

[fbm]

A simple question picked from this thread. Why would you charge one of your own skint companies SUFC 450k a year rent for the ground whilst on the other hand apparently dig deep in your own pocket (another company you own) to the tune of 200k a month to loan to that very same company.

Over a say 10 year period that is 4.5 million alone in rent due to you and God knows how much in loans.

You could create a sizeable debt owed to you on paper.

I think (and any number of the Accountants on here can correct me) but that is Ron's protection in case the club goes into administration. It's a debt that needs paying and he puts himself as the major creditor, so whatever there is, he gets it rather than anyone else.

 

[Cricko]

I think (and any number of the Accountants on here can correct me) but that is Ron's protection in case the club goes into administration. It's a debt that needs paying and he puts himself as the major creditor, so whatever there is, he gets it rather than anyone else.

Erm yes that might be true if you didnt own every company involved.*scratches head*