Route 1

[AndyT]

Yep, spot on.

It's also about making yourself less predictable. I wouldn't advocate route 1. You can still play a passing game but do it in the oppo half or from the halfway line and mix it with longer balls into the channels and so on. Passing football is great, but everyone has to know each others game. That will come in time, possibly.

As @KiwiRob says, it's the ponderous nature of it at present. Just watch Oxford's second goal again. That just isn't a side confident of playing that way. The oppo knows it, so they just press up the pitch and wait for the mistake.

 

[mfurok]

Yep, spot on.

It's also about making yourself less predictable. I wouldn't advocate route 1. You can still play a passing game but do it in the oppo half or from the halfway line and mix it with longer balls into the channels and so on. Passing football is great, but everyone has to know each others game. That will come in time, possibly.

As @KiwiRob says, it's the ponderous nature of it at present. Just watch Oxford's second goal again. That just isn't a side confident of playing that way. The oppo knows it, so they just press up the pitch and wait for the mistake.

Summarised perfectly.

How career football people like Bond and Campbell don’t understand that is utterly beyond me.

 

[Leigh_Seasider]

The key point, however, is to reduce the chances of unenforced errors at the back. How does Sol know our forwards are incapable of controlling or battling for quickly executed but poorly directed clearances? Given Southend's dire defensive track record to date, the greatest risk at present is to continue playing out of defense in a ponderous fashion which invites opposition pressure and hence mistakes. The most revealing statistic of the Oxford game is that Southend had over 60% possession and still lost 4-0.

I can only guess by what he’s seen. Can you think of one game this season our forwards have “battled” for anything? We need a few physical niggly players who wind up the opposition.
I agree, the players should make the right choices .. not pass in dangerous areas when the other team are lurking, *where necessary* boot it into row Z. Get it forward quicker. Move as a unit, press the opposition back into their half and retain possession further up the field so we can control games. You’re right that so far the possession is too deep, that’s a confidence thing as too often our players want to get rid and play safe. Forwards...yes they have to do more. Nothing stopping them closing down. Sol is (I believe) trying to coach this stuff into them. Rather than just “hoof the ball away .. anywhere you like”. Will he have time? Maybe not. But it’s the general consensus that we’re down already.

 

[AndyT]

I can see the value of passing from the back. Someone mentioned on the match thread that it can be used as a tactic to draw the oppo onto you and then pass through them into the vacated spaces behind. Good teams are excellent at this. Arsenal, when at their best under Wenger did exactly this at times. It's a way of controlling the game.

Maybe Sol is testing out who is capable and who isn't and deciding where he needs to strengthen. There are glimpses of it working. Our goal at Portsmouth being an example.

Funnily enough, the much maligned Mantom would be ideal as a fetcher/carrier in midfield.

 

[AndyT]

What I would add is that it really works better for me playing 4-4-2 as the passing options and triangles are better with the centre-halves passing into midfield. To use it playing 3-5-2 you have to have competent centre-halves who can carry the ball and wing-backs who can hurt the oppo in their half. I don't see Elvis and Ralph doing that, so they'd be better being normal full-backs and having an extra body in midfield.

 

[Leigh_Seasider]

What I would add is that it really works better for me playing 4-4-2 as the passing options and triangles are better with the centre-halves passing into midfield. To use it playing 3-5-2 you have to have competent centre-halves who can carry the ball and wing-backs who can hurt the oppo in their half. I don't see Elvis and Ralph doing that, so they'd be better being normal full-backs and having an extra body in midfield.

Yes I’d agree with this. 5 at the back isn’t working for now, but clearly Sol has his reasons. Maybe Mantom coming back in midfield, he might try the more traditional 4-4-2 with Sam in there, plus Isaac and two out wide, to give more options moving forward. But clearly Sol doesn’t rate Demetriou.. that leaves Macca as our only naturally wide player, it’s useless putting Hutch or Goodship out there. So maybe it’s a personnel thing. We did give Oxford the best possible start and they have very savvy forward players. Starting young Taylor for me was an error. But again, Sol must’ve had his reasons. I like all fans want to see us not get battered every week but .... I don’t want route 1. I think if this lot tried it, we’d be equally scr*wed.

 

[AndyT]

I like the fact that he has a way of playing and wants to fit the team into that. I actually thought Taylor was fine in the main. He reacted well after his mistake and still wanted the ball. Shows a lot of character. He'll learn as he goes along. Plenty of more senior players gave the ball away.

He seemed to use Macca almost in that fetcher/carrier role. In the first half I thought he did OK and showed for the ball. We just seemed to constantly be a player light in midfield, hence my point. For their second goal, Kiernan is desperately looking for someone to play it into, but then has to turn and play it back to Dieng and into trouble.

A good example of what's needed is the fella from Accrington Stanley. Think he was the No.6, I'll look him up. He just bossed the midfield. Similarly a few years back, Ryan Woods for Shrewsbury.

 

[Westcliff DGS]

True, but he didn't have Hopper for long. It won't work with Cox but it should work with Hopper and Goodship, and Ndukwu on the wing. Provided of course that the backs and midfield can hoof it upfield accurately!

Not convinced about goodship, as for ndukwu how ca anyone judge hi, of the 3 mangers we have had this season none have played him

 

[southendkid]

Just watching West Brom beating Bristol City and City are insistent on playing out from the back and it’s cost them two goals. Madness. What on earth is this trend all about?

Bristol City are 7th in the league, which probably means that unlike us they do have the players to play from the back and those mistakes were a one off.

 

[AndyT]

A good example of what's needed is the fella from Accrington Stanley. Think he was the No.6, I'll look him up. He just bossed the midfield.

Sam Finley (No. 14, as it turned out)

 

[Leigh_Seasider]

T

I like the fact that he has a way of playing and wants to fit the team into that. I actually thought Taylor was fine in the main. He reacted well after his mistake and still wanted the ball. Shows a lot of character. He'll learn as he goes along. Plenty of more senior players gave the ball away.

He seemed to use Macca almost in that fetcher/carrier role. In the first half I thought he did OK and showed for the ball. We just seemed to constantly be a player light in midfield, hence my point. For their second goal, Kiernan is desperately looking for someone to play it into, but then has to turn and play it back to Dieng and into trouble.

A good example of what's needed is the fella from Accrington Stanley. Think he was the No.6, I'll look him up. He just bossed the midfield. Similarly a few years back, Ryan Woods for Shrewsbury.

Taylor did great, I just question the wisdom of throwing him in. And you’re right about lack of suitable players in midfield, no wonder he wants Mantom back. It’s an extra body in there, another outlet. Milligan isn’t really delivering and that’s not helping. We need to play it forward more .. but we need outlets and players wanting the ball, moving into space, giving options. I like Sol .. I hope he can turn it round.
Edited to add : we need to stop passing to the opposition.

 

[AndyT]

Point taken on Taylor. He is a WIP, obviously and it was a tough ask to put him there in a side lacking confidence at the back, but sometimes it's good to jump in at the deep end.

Like anything, it's how he reacts and he showed a fair amount of character, for me.

 

[Tombstone Blues]

Taylor’s problems had nothing to do with what he did with the ball. His naivety and inexperience showed most when we didnt have the ball.

 

[Stuart W]

What I would add is that it really works better for me playing 4-4-2 as the passing options and triangles are better with the centre-halves passing into midfield. To use it playing 3-5-2 you have to have competent centre-halves who can carry the ball and wing-backs who can hurt the oppo in their half. I don't see Elvis and Ralph doing that, so they'd be better being normal full-backs and having an extra body in midfield.

Although I agree in principle, I'm afraid your last sentence doesn't stand up. The only qualities I see in Elvis and Ralph are indeed when they are playing as wing-backs.
As traditional full-backs doing what full-backs are meant to do, unquestionably they are two of the worst we have had in my fifty two years of supporting Southend.

 

[AndyT]

I agree, but for the moment they appear to be our options.

 

[AndyT]

Taylor’s problems had nothing to do with what he did with the ball. His nativity and inexperience showed most when we didnt have the ball.

WIP, 19yo.

 

[Tombstone Blues]

WIP, 19yo.

Didn’t suggest anything else. But all comments in respect of him seem to be centered around the mistake for the goal and his general ability to pass it after that.

His biggest area of weakness and the one that will require most time to improve and the one that exposed him and the team most, was his actual defending.

 

[amsemp]

As Sol said in the AGM, we don’t have have the players to play route one. Sturrock had some success playing direct football but we had Barry Corr up front. Hopper isn’t big or strong enough to win headers and hold the ball up against towering centre backs, nor is Humphrys. Route one would mean the opposition centre backs heading it straight back into the middle where our completely inept midfield wouldn’t win it back, meaning our completely inept defence would then be completely exposed.

We also don’t have strikers with pace who can peel away from their marker and time a run for a one on one with the keeper. So there’s no point asking the midfield to release the ball earlier either, as a) I doubt many of them could play the killer ball and b) our strikers would get caught by the opposition defence.

That leaves the only viable option being what Sol is currently doing. Playing out from the back with patient build up, hoping to work the ball into the opposition box to create some chances for the strikers to finish. If we sign some playmakers, forwards with pace or height and strength in January then that may change. But for now I can’t see he’s got much other choice.

For what it’s worth, Hopper and Humphrys aren’t bad players. I rate them highly. But neither is a good strike partner for eachother. They both need to be playing alongside a striker with pace or height and strength. That’s not eachother and definitely not Cox. Would’ve preferred sending Cox out on loan and keeping Theo. He would’ve at least given us something different we don’t currently have.

 

[AndyT]

Good points @amsemp

My only tweak, as mentioned earlier, would be to go 4-4-2 and pass into midfield rather than across the back-line.

 

[OldBlueLady]

His nativity and inexperience showed most when we didnt have the ball.

I hope you're not accusing him of being an a-s-s!