Scottish Referendum

[TrueBlue]

My guess is the media, encouraged quietly by the Government will find something dirty about Salmond within the next two years and ruin him politically. IMO silence in Westminster could well be golden in this instance, any resistance on our part will only stir nationalistic pride North of the border.

Personally I don't want Scotland to leave the Union. They have bravely bleed for it on numerous occasions, are respected members and need not leave on the jingoistic ravings of a mad bigot.

They should stay loyal to the crown!!!

 

[Dick Bate's Protege]

They should stay loyal to the crown!!!

They can't all be from the Royal Borough of Rochford old boy.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Ah the broad brushstrokes of the stereotype.

I've got Scottish Friends, a Scottish mother in law, none of whom hate the English - in fact one of them is married to a much missed Zoner.

A comedy lacking in comedy revolving around 4 neurotic Scots who spend most of their time sipping whisky at Central Perk?

 

[Bazza the dog]

The only real worthwhile thing the jocks bring to the economy is Oil but with carbon credit and bio fuels coming into play and the price of oil being somewhat up and down I would'nt bank on that long term to build a strong economy.

I for one would be more than happy for the jocks and the welsh to leave the UK economy as well as Jamaica leaving the crown as all three bring pretty much **** all to the table except their sad childish greened eyed monster hate for the English (more so the first two) so let's see if Scotland the brave and the welsh dragon is good enough to go alone. To me they are the infected foot that needs chopping off, on a funnier note we cna withdraw the pound from those two and let them join the euro now that would be funny.....

Nrver liekd the taffs horrible ***** if you ask me, the jocks are ok jamaicans no comment.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

The important point is surely that the Scots have a clear mandate to hold a referendum after the SNP's absolute majority in the Scottish parliament,especially since this was a manifesto committment? However,I doubt if even the most astute party leader in British politics -Alex Salmon-will be able to get a yes vote in 2014.

 

[Neil_F]

I'm in favour of preseving the Union. Scottish independence will cause huge problems for both Scotland and continuity UK. If it happened then some of the issues off the top of my head:

• What currency would Scotland use? They'd probably have to leave Sterling as "UK" wouldn't be prepared to be stand behind Scottish debt denominated in Sterling. Otherwise they would have to have their own currency and central bank or join the Euro, but...
• Could Scotland join the EU? There was a piece this week about Spain probably blocking such a move (as they are for Kosovo) as it would encourage the Basque independence movement.
• If they couldn't join the EU then they'd be need to negotiate border and trade agreements.
• How would North Sea oil assets be split? Salmond reckons 90/10 but independent studies come out at about 75/25. It would be argued over for years.
• Salmond's budget numbers rely on two things: 90% of heroic oil revenues and not having to pay for defence. Neither seem likely to me.
• What happens to the nuclear subs currently on the Clyde - is there anywhere for them to be based in the rest of the UK?
• How would the national debt be split?
• What would happen to the government stake in RBS?
• Would continuity UK maintain its membership of the EU? What about the UN security council seat?

I'm sure there are thousands of over issues as well.

 

[Bazza the dog]

Exactly its just some old codger blowing wind without properly thinking of the long term future and consequences of gonig it alone. There is no way (unfortunately) the scottish will get a yes vote on this anyone with half a brain will vote no to got it alone. Hang on we are talking about Scotland here maybe they will vote Yes happy fukin days....

I'm in favour of preseving the Union. Scottish independence will cause huge problems for both Scotland and continuity UK. If it happened then some of the issues off the top of my head:

• What currency would Scotland use? They'd probably have to leave Sterling as "UK" wouldn't be prepared to be stand behind Scottish debt denominated in Sterling. Otherwise they would have to have their own currency and central bank or join the Euro, but...
• Could Scotland join the EU? There was a piece this week about Spain probably blocking such a move (as they are for Kosovo) as it would encourage the Basque independence movement.
• If they couldn't join the EU then they'd be need to negotiate border and trade agreements.
• How would North Sea oil assets be split? Salmond reckons 90/10 but independent studies come out at about 75/25. It would be argued over for years.
• Salmond's budget numbers rely on two things: 90% of heroic oil revenues and not having to pay for defence. Neither seem likely to me.
• What happens to the nuclear subs currently on the Clyde - is there anywhere for them to be based in the rest of the UK?
• How would the national debt be split?
• What would happen to the government stake in RBS?
• Would continuity UK maintain its membership of the EU? What about the UN security council seat?

I'm sure there are thousands of over issues as well.

 

[C'mon you Shrimpers]

the trouble with Salmond's rhetoric is that it's all based on emotion hence the SNP desire to have the vote in 2014 the 700th anniversary of Bannockburn (the only time they beat those effing english *******s). When the detail is discussed as Neil has said, how much of the national debt will they take, what currency, what defence it all gets murky. Oil and a reasonable though a bit discredited now banking system is all they've really got. Add a number of big cities reliant on the public sector and they would be really in trouble which would be a shame as I do like the Scots. I'm married to one and my grandchildren have 2 Scottish grandmothers.
Salmond first spoke of Scotland being like Ireland, the Celtic tiger. Ooops. Then Iceland oops and now Norway which is doing really well.
Bottom line is the Nats hate the English. They have a twisted view of Scottish history, that excludes the boom times in Scotland were when they joined with England and became an industrial power house for the Empire in Victorian times. So they dream of a Gaelic past (Irish invaders BTW). Nationalism is usually crap when it's examined closely.
I always chuckle when I think that a Scots Quair the Scots novel of the 20th century was written mainly in Welwyn Garden City.

 

[Rayleigh Weir]

I gather the jocks want to hold the referendum in the same year as the 700th anniversary of the battle of Bannockburn so they can become even more nationalistic and anti-english than usual so therefore helping the independence vote along.

Not sure why they get so excited about beating a French speaking Welshman whilst led by the original plastic jock (another French speaker) who until before the battle had done all his fighting for the English...

 

[Aberdeen Shrimper]

Senga or Shirley?

Shirley!!!!

 

[Thorpe Groyney]

Much as I would like to see a truly independent Scotland, co-existing peacefully with their neighbours, it simply isn't going to happen.

There may be an overall majority of Holyrood, but the SNP got in on the backing of just 23% of the electorate.

All the latest polls suggest that around a third of Scots want independence whereas over half are against it and prefer to stay in the Union. This has also been the way for years, probably decades.

Salmond knows, too, that the SNP got in simply because Labour were thoroughly discredited. In the years where the SNP were a minority government, they kept their heads down, didn't make many (or any) policy decisions that could in any way be controversial, and let the media do the rest.

Salmond knows that his only chance for referendum success would be on our immediately after the Bannockburn anniversary and the Commonwealth Games in Glasgow. Trying to let 16 and 17 year olds vote is widely seen as a cynical ploy, too, as playing the Braveheart card will appeal more to that age bracket.

There's too many Scots, though, that rightly don't trust Salmond and his cronies any more than they could throw them. Whether it's 2014 or not, independence will not be voted for. I, too, wouldn't be in favour of this crowd of opportunist shysters, either, with them having said earlier this week that anyone who doesn't vote SNP are anti-Scottish.

When it does happen, though, it may well be a reinvigorating phase for Scotland, as at least they will be rid of the dreadful, tired, inherited thinking and bickering that's synonymous with English politics, amongst both politicians and voters.

 

[C'mon you Shrimpers]

Much as I would like to see a truly independent Scotland, co-existing peacefully with their neighbours, it simply isn't going to happen.

I'm intriqued Groyney. Why would you like to see this?

 

[steveo]

There's too many Scots, though, .

Good point, well made.

 

[Thorpe Groyney]

I'm intriqued Groyney. Why would you like to see this?

Part to do with blood lines, part to do with Scotland historically being a sovereign nation, with it's separate monarchy, culture, etc, which was joined together with England for political expedience for the benefit of a few without the consent of the many.

I believe Scotland could, just about, go it as an independent nation without impacting on the English economy. The problems that currently lie within is that:

(i) There's too much anti-English sentiment to make co-existence peaceful or particularly comfortable - especially for English people living in Scotland.

(ii) The current SNP leadership is good on spin, clever with words, but are the most opportunistic, selfish, and bigoted set of people that have political power in the UK, worse even than some parties based in Ulster, and the nation would go tits up within 10 years if they had their grubby little hands on absolute power in Scotland. They certainly don't represent the SNP I have previously backed.