Some Club Staff Salaries Late/Embargo Chat - now resolved (for now)

[londonblue]

I counter that point too. Given it was revalued under "alternate use", what possibly could that alternate use of a football stadium have been we all wonder??? Oh yes, housing. Now tell me, what was worth more in 99/00, a football stadium largely built in the 1950's and 3/4 untouched since the 70's with repeated attempts to relocate, or a housing development slap bang in town.

I think the majority would assume such "alternate use" would have yielded a significantly higher valuation than whatever the stadium was valued at....

As I said Ron is no angel, but Vic was a shyster and had massively overvalued Roots Hall for his own reasons.

He also persuaded the supporters club to gift the stadium to the club, which he then mortgaged to the hilt. I assume therefore that the reason for the huge overvaluation was because, without it, the asset and liability on the balance sheet effectively netted off.

Ron's revaluation downwards was the right thing to do. I don't doubt that it benefitted him otherwise he wouldn't have bothered, but it was correct.

 

[JD]

Without sight of Ron’s offshore balance sheet(s) - Mezcal Investments - I think is the BVI company it all leads to……… the argument cannot be completely solved.

 

[E for B and Billy Best]

Apparently, there is money is appearing in bank accounts.

 

[Holy Joe]

Sorry, not following. He only has 12 active companies/directorships, the rest are dissolved. I've been through each of the 12 most recent balance sheets very quickly now and only the group accounts of "Martin Dawn PLC (01767042)" have any property as assets, which are "property investments" to the princely value of £56,000. The only assets across the whole myriad of any meaningful sums are all the intragroup loans and investments in each of the respective companies.

Which active company can you see that owns property and is mortgaged? Much obliged.

​

Apologies you're correct 12 active.

Martin Dawn Plc has this charge on the land at Benfleet




Martin Dawn plc also owns some companies that don't appear to have Ron as a director, eg Jetbury


There's also plenty of charges that have been discharged at his other companies, including reputable high st lenders such as Bk of Scotland - these were against assets that have presumably been sold or refinanced.

Just randomly looking at some of the account - Hillpad in 2003 had assets and actually mafde a profit!

 

[Ghost of C.F.]

fair play.

FWIW, for those interested in the "asset stripping" pantomime, here it is courtesy of CH:
View attachment 21123
It has that infamous £400,000 per annum sum in it that has hung round our neck ever since.

My goodness its a bargain . Rotherham United pay its chairman £1m per annum to rent the New York stadium . Message for Ron -Review rent immediately, you are being too generous to all the fans . (only joking )

 

[brigadista]

Apologies you're correct 12 active.

Martin Dawn Plc has this charge on the land at Benfleet
View attachment 21126



Martin Dawn plc also owns some companies that don't appear to have Ron as a director, eg Jetbury


There's also plenty of charges that have been discharged at his other companies, including reputable high st lenders such as Bk of Scotland - these were against assets that have presumably been sold or refinanced.

Just randomly looking at some of the account - Hillpad in 2003 had assets and actually mafde a profit!

Well blow me down! Haha

That charge though, when property in assets is value at £56k can’t amount to much?

Be interesting to see if there’s a link between the director there and our dearly beloved.

This still validates my point. He has next to no assets (declared publicly at least) and is borrowing from all and sundry. Ergo, he’s not putting his own money into the club!

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

My goodness its a bargain . Rotherham United pay its chairman £1m per annum to rent the New York stadium . Message for Ron -Review rent immediately, you are being too generous to all the fans . (only joking )

How to win friends and influence people. Masterclass right here folks.

 

[Holy Joe]

Well blow me down! Haha

That charge though, when property in assets is value at £56k can’t amount to much?

Be interesting to see if there’s a link between the director there and our dearly beloved.

This still validates my point. He has next to no assets (declared publicly at least) and is borrowing from all and sundry. Ergo, he’s not putting his own money into the club!

I think the financial assets in some of the companies are loans to other entities that contain the assets - I saw it mentioned in one set of accounts that there was a property in a subsidary - but that was a financial asset on the balance sheet in the parent accounts I was looking at.

Not sure but if property is held in a spv (which is common) then the visible asset is the loan to the spv the physical property is 'hidden'

 

[brigadista]

As I said Ron is no angel, but Vic was a shyster and had massively overvalued Roots Hall for his own reasons.

He also persuaded the supporters club to gift the stadium to the club, which he then mortgaged to the hilt. I assume therefore that the reason for the huge overvaluation was because, without it, the asset and liability on the balance sheet effectively netted off.

Ron's revaluation downwards was the right thing to do. I don't doubt that it benefitted him otherwise he wouldn't have bothered, but it was correct.

Woah, in your balance sheet Vic was worse than Ron? One appears to have been guilty of mismanagement in attempting to get the club to the top division, the other has set out to make a killing of the club’s land from day one.

What year did the supporters club transfer the stadium, I’d like to look that up? It sounds like there was a precedent of a naive supporters group looking to help not hinder and blindly propping up an unfit chairman, well I never haha!

“Right thing to do”, based on the points I have made sounds charitable in the extreme. But hey ho, I think common etiquette is to accuse you of being him/related to him on this thread for a statement like that! ;)

 

[brigadista]

My goodness its a bargain . Rotherham United pay its chairman £1m per annum to rent the New York stadium . Message for Ron -Review rent immediately, you are being too generous to all the fans . (only joking )

Which I imagine is exactly what he’s thinking and rubbing his hands at. If you follow the current script, the present rent is exactly the same amount as annual upkeep (amazing that in 20 years maintenance costs haven’t increased and all that money hasn’t managed to fix a leaky roof in the west bar hey?). Yet a new stadium will be so modern it’s running costs will be less than the cost of a signed picture of Boris Johnson.
In reality of course, a better stadium is more valuable and would command a better rent.

If anything was good about those zoom’s it was when he fessed up and dropped a clanger that he’d own the new stadium. Another point many of us made for years but once again the beloved got the benefit of the doubt….

 

[brigadista]

I think the financial assets in some of the companies are loans to other entities that contain the assets - I saw it mentioned in one set of accounts that there was a property in a subsidary - but that was a financial asset on the balance sheet in the parent accounts I was looking at.

Not sure but if property is held in a spv (which is common) then the visible asset is the loan to the spv the physical property is 'hidden'

Yep, but if it’s a subsidiary, he’s the director and none of his companies have any property assets.
Granted about the SPV point, that might be covered by the entity ownerships/investments and would have to go through all those companies assets too. Crumbs, it’s a never ending myriad….I hope the SFO guys get paid decent over time rates….

 

[rigsby]

Woah, in your balance sheet Vic was worse than Ron? One appears to have been guilty of mismanagement in attempting to get the club to the top division, the other has set out to make a killing of the club’s land from day one.

What year did the supporters club transfer the stadium, I’d like to look that up? It sounds like there was a precedent of a naive supporters group looking to help not hinder and blindly propping up an unfit chairman, well I never haha!

“Right thing to do”, based on the points I have made sounds charitable in the extreme. But hey ho, I think common etiquette is to accuse you of being him/related to him on this thread for a statement like that! ;)

You should look it up and educate yourself. Rather than make snidey comments at those who already know.

Why your at it look the Sainsbury’s project. That was the original plan long before Ron took over.

A re valuation of RH was for a supermarket. Back then there never was going to be a single house on RH or FF.

So anyone who claims Ron was only interested in houses when he arrived is talking absolute nonsense

Sainsburys had first option on RH. Just like at Bristol R they deliberately delayed and delayed by not buying surrounding land not owned by Ron. This was to put off any rivals off building stores if Sainsbury’s were already in the process. There are articles in the Echo from around 2014/15 with Sainsburys still dragging g their feet over access to the roads around RH and parking etc.

The great thing is Sainsburys and councils know that many football fans are easily fooled and will always blame their owner. Just like they did with the Rubin’s, Anton Johnson and Uncle Vic

Bristle R took Sainsburys to court but lost their case and just like SUFC still don’t have a new stadium.

 

[londonblue]

Woah, in your balance sheet Vic was worse than Ron? One appears to have been guilty of mismanagement in attempting to get the club to the top division, the other has set out to make a killing of the club’s land from day one.

What year did the supporters club transfer the stadium, I’d like to look that up? It sounds like there was a precedent of a naive supporters group looking to help not hinder and blindly propping up an unfit chairman, well I never haha!

“Right thing to do”, based on the points I have made sounds charitable in the extreme. But hey ho, I think common etiquette is to accuse you of being him/related to him on this thread for a statement like that! ;)

Yes. I have a lot of knowledge of the things Vic got up to, and have articulated on here many times. I really can't be arsed (and don't really have the time) to list them all in one place.

 

[Medway Blue]

Apparently, there is money is appearing in bank accounts.

Think this is a typo. Do you mean "disappearing"?

 

[Ghost of C.F.]

Here are my notes on what happened at the sponsors meeting held on Wednesday 20th July . Today Agenda Item 1 - Late Pay at SUFC , Tomorrow Agenda Item 2 -Financial Issues/Budget Setting.

You should note that in general sponsors support principles of openness and transparency, wherever possible. at our football club.

Ownership-bashing is not considered to be part of our remit . We seek to avoid Embargo.

Item 1 - Late Pay at SUFC

1. Two individual SUFC employees had approached a sponsoring company . Complained that their salaries had not been paid on time . They said they were experiencing difficulty in paying their household bills and believed this reflected very badly on the image of the football club .
2. Sponsors also wish to uphold image and reputation of club and agreed to investigate .
Dialogue had taken place with complainants and relevant documents had been presented and authenticated .
3. Both complaints were considered valid and upheld.
4. Further evidence suggested the problem was more widespread amongst non-playing staff . Investigation hampered by praiseworthy loyalty of staff members to club .
5. Shrimperzone commended for bringing more cases into the public domain . Such problems need to first be identified if they are to be resolved .
6. Cash flow problems , heightened out of season , considered to be responsible . No
ill-intent by senior club management .
7. Overall Assessment - Unfair treatment of all non-playing staff that were effected . They cannot be expected to effectively loan part of their pay entitlement back to the club . An alternative form of short term finance should have been found . All staff ( players and non-players ) should feel valued and motivated to create a winning team capable of returning us to the Football League as soon as possible
8. Moving forward attention must be firmly focused on paying all monies outstanding.
This must take priority over signing new players up to the first team squad (note-only applies to players where club pays their wages )
9. Sponsors agreed a form of penalty which would be activated if the matter became a long-running issue . Reputational damage must be avoided .
10. A special sponsors meeting set for Friday ,19th August .to review this important matter .Decision will then be made on whether the agreed penalty should be enforced (likely to be so if July salaries to all non-playing staff have not been paid by 18th August)
Failure to register disapproval risks re-occurrence of the issue in summer 2023 .

 

[Napster]

9. Sponsors agreed a form of penalty which would be activated if the matter became a long-running issue .

So you'll withdraw sponsorship? Doesn't that just make the problem worse?

 

[C'mon you Shrimpers]

I've just read and reread the notes. There is nothing about speaking to the club when the employees made the complaints. I really find this strange. As I've previously said Tom Lawrence is very approachable. Makes me suspicious that the "sponsors" whoever they are did not want this problem resolved. I really do smell a rat and it's rather unpleasant.

 

[londonblue]

7. Overall Assessment - Unfair treatment of all non-playing staff that were effected . They cannot be expected to effectively loan part of their pay entitlement back to the club . An alternative form of short term finance should have been found . All staff ( players and non-players ) should feel valued and motivated to create a winning team capable of returning us to the Football League as soon as possible

Presumably when you agreed to sponsor the club, and they told you how much you have to pay, you turned round and said it wasn't nearly enough and offered more because you knew the financial situation the club is in?

 

[Ghost of C.F.]

Presumably when you agreed to sponsor the club, and they told you how much you have to pay, you turned round and said it wasn't nearly enough and offered more because you knew the financial situation the club is in?

Its no good just trying to push the financial burden away from the club and on to us . The whole situation leading up to the problem could and should have been sorted out much better . We discussed shortcomings and my post tomorrow will set out what they are and where we need improvement at the club , We need to be a bit more like Grimsby Town with everyone being appreciated for all the hard work they put in . Its not just the players that count - the backroom staff are of equal importance.

 

[brigg blue]

Its no good just trying to push the financial burden away from the club and on to us . The whole situation leading up to the problem could and should have been sorted out much better . We discussed shortcomings and my post tomorrow will set out what they are and where we need improvement at the club , We need to be a bit more like Grimsby Town with everyone being appreciated for all the hard work they put in . Its not just the players that count - the backroom staff are of equal importance.

Was this meeting with the club?

Or was it a bunch of local businessmen criticising how someone else is running their business?

Have you thought of arranging a consortium to make Ron an offer?