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Some questions on scouting.

harveyoe

Senior Lives Matter.
Joined
Nov 21, 2017
Messages
499
There has been a lot of recent talk about scouting and about beefing up our scouting network.

This has led me back to something which has bothered me on and off over the years. I have to confess to total ignorance of the scouting system and how it works.

Are scouts employees of the club?

Are they freelance, in which case how do they get paid?

Do they randomly just watch as many games as possible or are they asked/told to go and watch and report on a particular player.

As a fan I guess I have no need to know any of this, but I would be interested.

I'm hoping that there will be someone on here who knows exactly how it all works and can enlighten me.

For clarity, I'm talking about the sort of scouts who identify players rather than those who watch future opponents. I accept that some may do both.

For further clarity, I'm not talking about Boy Scouts, or these days I guess Girl Scouts. In fact I'm not even sure that girl scouts would be correct, perhaps scouts of the female persuasion. ( Scouts sans willys possibly). Anyway, I'm sure you will know what I mean.
 
I dont know how many informal scouts we have. or indeed our current full and complete structure, given recent events

However I understand that scouts can undertake a range of tasks from scouting players to scouting opposition.

One good place to start is the PFSA web site. The prof Football Association for scouting

The site is there to train scouts. You could become one

Here you can read about the 3 levels of training and all the various training elements, IUt offers good technical insight

Some clubs in this league use supporters to assist in the task !!
 
Thanks, I will go and have a look at the site.

I think I'm too old to consider starting a new career as a scout, it was more a case of just idle curiosity.
 
Is it not the case that all the big clubs have massive dossiers of decent players from about 5 years old and up? I would have thought it impossible to just pop to a random game and discover a gem that nowone knows about.
 
Is it not the case that all the big clubs have massive dossiers of decent players from about 5 years old and up? I would have thought it impossible to just pop to a random game and discover a gem that nowone knows about.
I suspect that you are correct. It wouldn't surprise me at all if big clubs kept such extensive dossiers.

When talking about hidden gems though, we have to realise our level. A player who could be a gem for us may be of no interest to the bigger cubs.
 
I've scouted for a league team in the past and was paid expenses but that was it. In the bigger clubs they will hire some full time and a head scout at a prem club can make some very tidy bunts
 
I've scouted for a league team in the past and was paid expenses but that was it. In the bigger clubs they will hire some full time and a head scout at a prem club can make some very tidy bunts
So at our sort of level, scouts would probably not be paid, other than expenses as you say.
In that case then the only people likely to do it would be fans of the club concerned. Would that be right, or am I missing something?
 
So at our sort of level, scouts would probably not be paid, other than expenses as you say.
In that case then the only people likely to do it would be fans of the club concerned. Would that be right, or am I missing something?
Fans have been used, clubs prefer the person to usually have a qualification through which ever leagues governing body or have experience of doing so in the past- even if that has been at a local level
 
So at our sort of level, scouts would probably not be paid, other than expenses as you say.
In that case then the only people likely to do it would be fans of the club concerned. Would that be right, or am I missing something?
I'm intrigued how much we're paying John Still's network of scouts he's bringing along or if they're mostly expenses only and just follow him due to loyalty and reputation:

"I don’t know what has gone on before, but I can bring in selected scouts that have worked for me for years that will come and work for Southend. Scouts that have found me some unbelievable players. I hope they will find the same for Kev.”
 
So at our sort of level, scouts would probably not be paid, other than expenses as you say.
In that case then the only people likely to do it would be fans of the club concerned. Would that be right, or am I missing something?

There are plenty of people who like to watch live football in their spare time. Scouting for a club may mean they get free admission and their petrol money paid for something they may well have gone to anyway.
 
As far as the younger age groups are concerned I felt Southend United were always a tad lazy. A few years back they would ask certain clubs to attend show-case tournaments/friendlies at their bases in Chelmsford or the Chase. It galled me when I saw so much talent in my local area (East London/Metropolitan Essex borders) get hoovered up by the likes of Norwich, Ipswich and Peterborough.
 
As far as the younger age groups are concerned I felt Southend United were always a tad lazy. A few years back they would ask certain clubs to attend show-case tournaments/friendlies at their bases in Chelmsford or the Chase. It galled me when I saw so much talent in my local area (East London/Metropolitan Essex borders) get hoovered up by the likes of Norwich, Ipswich and Peterborough.
In around 1994 I was off work waiting for an operation and ended up helping out at Greensward school with PE as I was friends with local legend Tony Maskell.

Obviously things have improved, I hope but at the time Maidstone were in contact with him but not Southend. I was asked to look after Year 9? for after school football. In the first game a lad from Greensward stood out as a young Ryan Leonard type. No obvious tricks but good reading, energy and a real happy kid. Needless to say when I mention him to Tony he said Southend were aware but don't seem interested.

In the second game a lad from the opposition, one of the Benfleet schools, was even better. Looked like a young Nigel Clough. Not great pace but his awareness and selection of passing was outstanding. He mostly like to play his forwards in with well weighted passes that were almost to good for the lads in front of him.

At the end i asked their PE teacher about him and by chance his dad was one of only about 2 parents at the game. I had a good chat with the dad and asked if it was ok if I contacted Southend.....He Said " Thanks but your to late, Norwich looked at him last week and he signed at the weekend "
 
In around 1994 I was off work waiting for an operation and ended up helping out at Greensward school with PE as I was friends with local legend Tony Maskell.

Obviously things have improved, I hope but at the time Maidstone were in contact with him but not Southend. I was asked to look after Year 9? for after school football. In the first game a lad from Greensward stood out as a young Ryan Leonard type. No obvious tricks but good reading, energy and a real happy kid. Needless to say when I mention him to Tony he said Southend were aware but don't seem interested.

In the second game a lad from the opposition, one of the Benfleet schools, was even better. Looked like a young Nigel Clough. Not great pace but his awareness and selection of passing was outstanding. He mostly like to play his forwards in with well weighted passes that were almost to good for the lads in front of him.

At the end i asked their PE teacher about him and by chance his dad was one of only about 2 parents at the game. I had a good chat with the dad and asked if it was ok if I contacted Southend.....He Said " Thanks but your to late, Norwich looked at him last week and he signed at the weekend "
In 1994 we were in Tier 2 by the way. Two anecdotal examples are not exactly proof of us missing out on superstars.

ps around this time we did actually recruit decent youth, such as Spencer Prior.
 
In around 1994 I was off work waiting for an operation and ended up helping out at Greensward school with PE as I was friends with local legend Tony Maskell.

Obviously things have improved, I hope but at the time Maidstone were in contact with him but not Southend. I was asked to look after Year 9? for after school football. In the first game a lad from Greensward stood out as a young Ryan Leonard type. No obvious tricks but good reading, energy and a real happy kid. Needless to say when I mention him to Tony he said Southend were aware but don't seem interested.

In the second game a lad from the opposition, one of the Benfleet schools, was even better. Looked like a young Nigel Clough. Not great pace but his awareness and selection of passing was outstanding. He mostly like to play his forwards in with well weighted passes that were almost to good for the lads in front of him.

At the end i asked their PE teacher about him and by chance his dad was one of only about 2 parents at the game. I had a good chat with the dad and asked if it was ok if I contacted Southend.....He Said " Thanks but your to late, Norwich looked at him last week and he signed at the weekend "
Who were the players? Did they go on to have a career in the game?
 
Not sure Individual examples prove a lot.
My son went to beauchamps in wickford. In his year two lads plaid for West Ham, one was their captain (u16’s).
Neither were caught by Southend , HOWEVER neither went on to have a career in football.
At the same time Southend academy have had a fair few lads from beauchamps in recent years come through the academy and go on to play for the first team.
Dan bentley
Harry phillips
Charlie sawyers
And I might be missing another

so based on that ridiculously small sample we are better at this than a premiership club.
 
Not sure Individual examples prove a lot.
My son went to beauchamps in wickford. In his year two lads plaid for West Ham, one was their captain (u16’s).
Neither were caught by Southend , HOWEVER neither went on to have a career in football.
At the same time Southend academy have had a fair few lads from beauchamps in recent years come through the academy and go on to play for the first team.
Dan bentley
Harry phillips
Charlie sawyers
And I might be missing another

so based on that ridiculously small sample we are better at this than a premiership club.
Kenny Coker

And the other Wickford secondary, Bromfords, had Kelman and I'm sure some others
 
I have just finished reading "The Nowhere Men", which was referred to by @south247 further up this thread. It is an interesting insight into the murky world of scouts, and we (S.U.F.C) get several mentions in the book .as do Gary Waddock and Dean Austin.

I still have more questions than answers, but at least I now have some idea of how football scouting works.

If anyone would like the book, please PM me an address and I'll post it on.
 
I have just finished reading "The Nowhere Men", which was referred to by @south247 further up this thread. It is an interesting insight into the murky world of scouts, and we (S.U.F.C) get several mentions in the book .as do Gary Waddock and Dean Austin.

I still have more questions than answers, but at least I now have some idea of how football scouting works.

If anyone would like the book, please PM me an address and I'll post it on.
Agree that this book is a great read. I did so about 3 or 4 years ago and commented upon it on Zone. Seem to recall the Fish and Chip shop near the ground got an honourable mention. I think the Brentford model, much beloved by Stan, gets detailed exposure. My copy currently resides with Lincoln Shrimp. Don't know how far he has delved into its delights.
 
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