Storing DNA (database)

[J]

I think today, the two cases in the news, have proved how valuable storing DNA on offenders, and people who haven't even been charged, is.

People were complaining about this Big Brother Society, yet today a rapist murderer and a serial killer have been locked up.. One in the eye for the Human Rights bods...

2 scumbags off the streets today - 1 for the remainder of his life, scum.

 

[Interpol Shrimper]

I think today, the two cases in the news, have proved how valuable storing DNA on offenders, and people who haven't even been charged, is.

People were complaining about this Big Brother Society, yet today a rapist and murderer and a serial killer have been locked up.. One in the eye for the Human Rights bods...

2 scumbags off the streets today - 1 for the remainder of his life, scum.

I personally can't believe the defence cases for both of these two.

Ipswich Prostitute murderer "yes, I admit I frequent hookers but it's total co-incidence that they all got bumped off in the order I sh@gged them, plus that fibre of my car that was in the hair of one of the victims is purely chance and must have comne from when she met with me!"

South London model "I didn't kill her, honest guv. I just saw her lying there in a pool of blood and thought, oh well here goes, I've always wanted to f*ck a corpse!"

As you say J, scumbags the pair of them.

In terms of Wright, surely the police need to grill him about the murder of the 16 y/o Norwich prostitute in 1992. At that time he was landlord of The Ferryboat Inn (which anyone who's been to Carrow Rd will know is right next to the ground & RLD)!

 

[J]

I personally can't believe the defence cases for both of these two.

Ipswich Prostitute murderer "yes, I admit I frequent hookers but it's total co-incidence that they all got bumped off in the order I sh@gged them, plus that fibre of my car that was in the hair of one of the victims is purely chance and must have comne from when she met with me!"

South London model "I didn't kill her, honest guv. I just saw her lying there in a pool of blood and thought, oh well here goes, I've always wanted to f*ck a corpse!"

As you say J, scumbags the pair of them.

In terms of Wright, surely the police need to grill him about the murder of the 16 y/o Norwich prostitute in 1992. At that time he was landlord of The Ferryboat Inn (which anyone who's been to Carrow Rd will know is right next to the ground & RLD)!

Yep, they said they will leave any evidence on file for a quite a while, as people will no doubt want to reinvesitigate some cold cases.

 

[MK Shrimper]

In terms of Wright, surely the police need to grill him about the murder of the 16 y/o Norwich prostitute in 1992. At that time he was landlord of The Ferryboat Inn (which anyone who's been to Carrow Rd will know is right next to the ground & RLD)!

And Suzy Lamplugh who he worked with at some point as well.

 

[Interpol Shrimper]

And Suzy Lamplugh who he worked with at some point as well.

Did he? :eek:
I hadn't heard about that one actually. Blimey!

 

[MK Shrimper]

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=30250&in_page_id=34

 

[Southminster_Shrimper]

And Suzy Lamplugh who he worked with at some point as well.

they have mentioned that on the radio this morning about looking into other "unsolved" cases where he might have been implicated. the suzy lamplugh one was specifically mentioned.

 

[Firestorm]

I think today, the two cases in the news, have proved how valuable storing DNA on offenders, and people who haven't even been charged, is.

People were complaining about this Big Brother Society, yet today a rapist murderer and a serial killer have been locked up.. One in the eye for the Human Rights bods...

2 scumbags off the streets today - 1 for the remainder of his life, scum.

Both men were caught on DNA evidence where the link was made to DNA already stored after previous convictions (one sexual offences the other theft)

DNA collection on innocent people is still a moot point

 

[number11]

Both men were caught on DNA evidence where the link was made to DNA already stored after previous convictions (one sexual offences the other theft)

DNA collection on innocent people is still a moot point

But I think this shows the worth of having DNA records stored on anyone. Otherwise it only becomes effective after someone has previously committed an offence. If these two hadnt the DNA link may not have been made / made so quickly.

Similar to ID cards, I cant understand arguments against such a database unless people ahve something to hide.

 

[GNH]

I completely misread the topic title and thought it said snorting DNA and was intrigued, but now i'm disappointed.

PS - J, you make a very valid point!

 

[Phippsy]

But I think this shows the worth of having DNA records stored on anyone. Otherwise it only becomes effective after someone has previously committed an offence. If these two hadnt the DNA link may not have been made / made so quickly.

Similar to ID cards, I cant understand arguments against such a database unless people ahve something to hide.

Totally agree with this statement 100% number 11, id cards an storage of dna will only be oppossed by those people with something to hide..I know i wouldn't mind having an id card or giving dna to be stored on file.

 

[Firestorm]

But I think this shows the worth of having DNA records stored on anyone. Otherwise it only becomes effective after someone has previously committed an offence. If these two hadnt the DNA link may not have been made / made so quickly.

Similar to ID cards, I cant understand arguments against such a database unless people ahve something to hide.

True,
But as DNA evidence is only really used in the more serious of cases (DNA extraction is quite expensive) and that statistically it is exceedingly rare for someone to commit a serious offence without having offended previously at all (such that DNA evidence would be the only way of identifying them) the impact on civil liberties etc would greatly outweigh the benefits (as well as the costimplications)

 

[osymandus]

But I think this shows the worth of having DNA records stored on anyone. Otherwise it only becomes effective after someone has previously committed an offence. If these two hadnt the DNA link may not have been made / made so quickly.

Similar to ID cards, I cant understand arguments against such a database unless people ahve something to hide.

Not a feasble argument. You dont need something to hide if you dont want id cards or DNA stored (if you havnt commited an offence). It simply means you have very little (and psychological profiling backs this up) prefernce to do so. Its for a case to prove your innocent , of which you are untill evidence can be brought to say otherwise.

Also pathologist and foresnic scientists aer so pised off at present with the way DNA profiling is being portayed as the amazing case breaker , its portayed as such.

Never trade liberty for secerurity

 

[Napster]

True,
But as DNA evidence is only really used in the more serious of cases (DNA extraction is quite expensive) and that statistically it is exceedingly rare for someone to commit a serious offence without having offended previously at all (such that DNA evidence would be the only way of identifying them) the impact on civil liberties etc would greatly outweigh the benefits (as well as the costimplications)

Pros to DNA on database

Errant parents found
More crimes solved
Medical epistemiological issues

Cons

Cost
Big Brother taking over
Thin end of the wedge

There already is an ID card, it's called a passport. The new ones are virtually unfakeable.

I don't believe the nothing to hide argument. Students of crime will know that people who are found guilty of the more serious of crimes have, 90% of the time, already committed less serious misdemeanours. It's like taking heroin, you don't go straight from cigs to H, you go via dope, charlie and so on.

When the government have all the information they want on us, our civil liberties are eroded, despite us fighting this very issue in WW2.

Come on guys - this is not about crime, and how DNA solved two crimes. This is about your movements being tracked. Right now, cookies are being stored on your PC as to what sites you visit, how often, and so on. Your oyster cards show the government what time you went where, and your bank can pinpoint where to the exact second you withdrew money.

Who wants to live in a world like this? Not me.

 

[Mrs P]

Agreed that we are rid of two wrong 'uns from our street and whatever has nailed them am in favour......

However, I read the story about Sally Ann Bowman and it said the guy had loads of previous for sex attacks etc etc - why the hell was he out on the streets??? I think re-iterates the shortfalls in our justice system sadly...

 

[C C Csiders]

And Suzy Lamplugh who he worked with at some point as well.

That made me sick today. The Daily Express and Mail both having "Did he kill Suzy Lamplugh too". Oh heaven forfend that he may have murdered somebody middle-class.

What about the 5 he murdered in Ipswich, and the 3 he may have done in Norwich? Oh, but they do not count because they are low-life prostitutes aren't they Mr Editor. It is the Editors and proprietors of those two papers that are the low-lives.

As an aside as he is Steve Wright do you think he spoke all over the start and finish of the judge's sentencing statement?

 

[number11]

Pros to DNA on database

Errant parents found
More crimes solved
Medical epistemiological issues

Cons

Cost
Big Brother taking over
Thin end of the wedge

There already is an ID card, it's called a passport. The new ones are virtually unfakeable.

I don't believe the nothing to hide argument. Students of crime will know that people who are found guilty of the more serious of crimes have, 90% of the time, already committed less serious misdemeanours. It's like taking heroin, you don't go straight from cigs to H, you go via dope, charlie and so on. OK, but there is a diference between committing and being caught. If the DNA helps catch the offenders after their minor offences surely that is better than doing it after their more serious crimes...

When the government have all the information they want on us, our civil liberties are eroded, despite us fighting this very issue in WW2.

Come on guys - this is not about crime, and how DNA solved two crimes. This is about your movements being tracked. Right now, cookies are being stored on your PC as to what sites you visit, how often, and so on. Your oyster cards show the government what time you went where, and your bank can pinpoint where to the exact second you withdrew money.

Who wants to live in a world like this? Not me.

I cant say living in a world like that bothers me overly. My mundane movements from my flat to the bagel shop, to the football to the pub to home wont interest the government greatly, and my cookies showing my (overly) frequent visits to Shrimperzone, Sportinglife and hard core porn shouldnt raise too many eye brows. I dont see how it affects my civil liberties unless they are actually trying to stop me doing something that is legal.

If it a) enabled them to track movements of criminals to either catch them (or even better Minority Report Style stopping them before crime is committed) or b) enabled them to track missing people by their network of CCTV, knowing where money withdrawn etc, then it really doesnt bother me. Thin end of the wedge...well I guess that depends if we trust our government / Monarchy / secret service and those we democratically elect. Im not a fan of the current government but dont think my habits will be of great interest to Mr Brown.

 

[McScriven]

Pros to DNA on database

Errant parents found
More crimes solved
Medical epistemiological issues

Cons

Cost
Big Brother taking over
Thin end of the wedge

Think you've answered you own question there. Your arguments against are pretty poor IMHO whereas those for seem to far outway the small inconvience of the majority of the population.

I'd like to know that if anything ever happened to anyone I cared about the best possible chance was given to those in power to catch the person responsible.

If this means the Government knows I scratched my left testicle when I woke up this morning then so be it.

 

[Napster]

I cant say living in a world like that bothers me overly. My mundane movements from my flat to the bagel shop, to the football to the pub to home wont interest the government greatly, and my cookies showing my (overly) frequent visits to Shrimperzone, Sportinglife and hard core porn shouldnt raise too many eye brows. I dont see how it affects my civil liberties unless they are actually trying to stop me doing something that is legal.

If it a) enabled them to track movements of criminals to either catch them (or even better Minority Report Style stopping them before crime is committed) or b) enabled them to track missing people by their network of CCTV, knowing where money withdrawn etc, then it really doesnt bother me. Thin end of the wedge...well I guess that depends if we trust our government / Monarchy / secret service and those we democratically elect. Im not a fan of the current government but dont think my habits will be of great interest to Mr Brown.

That's all fair and well. But what if, and recent evidence backs me up, the government loses some data? All kinds of nefarious people can use the information about us for their own good - passports in our name, benefits in our name...

 

[South Bank Hank]

If the stats prove that small crimes lead to larger crimes, then tackle the right issue by coming down hard on minor crimes and minor criminals.

There's plenty of rubbish needing tidying up in this world. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Stop petty criminals early. Stick them in bright pink crim-wear. Show them up in front of their mates and their community. Give them some community service work to do. And make sure they get on with it.

No one's going to see you as cool when you're clearing out a bog in a bright pink jump-suit!

Self-financing and effective.