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Supporters Group News Supporters Group Statement and Q&A meeting with Ron Martin and Tom Lawrence. 28/03/2023

Out of interest Why then do the accounts for one year alone ( 2017) show a charge of £850,000 for rents and Management costs. ( £425,000 ) and how do you attribute the value we received from that?

Paying anything to 'rent' RH is disgusting (ironically not as disgusting as the stadium itself)

It's like being burgled and having all your possessions stolen, your home trashed and then receiving an invoice from the criminal for travel expenses and the time taken to smash the place up.
 
That's the thing. I think most believed/assumed the tax issues were sorted (for now) and staff wages paid and up to date. This following the last statements from the club suggesting it was all sorted and "working capital" was available to meet liabilities.

However it's now evident things are not sorted, unfortunately and it's this I think that has ****ed most people off.
100%.

and on top of this, just this week he has put in tens of thousands….for what? Decembers wages?

I just don’t understand this - how much can Decembers wages be? Why doesn’t he just pay them and tell us he’s done that? What’s the issue? Why the continual delay?
 
i have recently spoken to a member of SUFC staff they told me they don`t know what`s happening next season they said after the last home they are hoping for some positive news . so i`ll be hanging on to my season ticket money for a while .
 
Out of interest Why then do the accounts for one year alone ( 2017) show a charge of £850,000 for rents and Management costs. ( £425,000 ) and how do you attribute the value we received from that?
I thought it was common knowledge that rent is "charged" but never collected. It's shown as a debt to Ron in the accounts, so that if the club goes into administration he is the number one creditor.
 
Bottom line 2023/24 season card monies should not be needed to cover staff wages from December 2022 or "historic" HMRC liabilities, or anything else unpaid from 2022. That's basic business liabilities that should be met as they are due.

A club of this size (or any size really) should not be failing to pay staff or tax liabilities on time. Once is bad enough, but this is happening regularly and has been for a while now.

That's on Ron, not the supporters.
But they're not. So then what?

Look, we all know what SHOULD be happening. But it hasn't been for years and personally, with the vast majority of football clubs failing to make a profit, I don't think it's purely Ron's fault that the club makes a loss. He's guilty of other stuff, but not that.

Basic economics - if you support a football club but never pay to see them play, then you can't moan if it goes under. And I get people saying they are paying more by paying for tickets as they go, but the club needs the money NOW. It's all about cashflow.

I think there are so many people on here adopting the view that because things haven't been done correctly, that's all Ron's fault (true) and so they are going to punish him by not buying season tickets.

However, that doesn't punish only Ron, it potentially kills the club. And those same people, who will not support the club financially in it's hour of need, will 100% blame Ron Martin for the situation (again, true) but at the same time will totally absolve themselves of any responsibility at all in the matter and will refuse to accept the fact that actually, if they had all purchased season tickets as they did last year, it may all have been alright.

But we'll never know, because it won't have happened.
 
Although the Trust do a good job and great fans give up their time freely I do think they made a huge mistake in lending Ron £40k. Surprise, surprise he hasn't paid it back on the due date. Anyone who does dealings with this dodgy businessman needs think far more carefully.
Time for the nuclear option....though very unpopular...for the trust to instruct solicitors for the recovery of the loan.
 
Don't think it will have surprised anyone he hasn't repaid it. it's what he does to everyone. His business demeanor will be a negative barrier to any prospective parties interested in doing a deal with him.
On a lighter note, if debt collectors enter and take goods in lieu of money, is it possible it can include Mooney and the incontinent Foxes!
 
Time for the nuclear option....though very unpopular...for the trust to instruct solicitors for the recovery of the loan.
I'm curious as to why you think his would be a good idea.

Yes, they would like that money back, and yes, so they should. But they need to try to keep a dialogue going at the moment if they can. Speaking through lawyers is expensive, and probably counter-productive.

I would really like to know what the National League thinks and / or is doing.
 
I would really like to know what the National League thinks and / or is doing.
Probably very little, bet they're waiting for a good excuse to expel us. Seems to be the NL way.

At least the EFL engages properly with clubs in difficulty.
 
That's very funny. :Smile:
Maybe not properly, probably a poor choice of words. At least the EFL can acknowledge a problem with a club when it arises.

The NL have done nothing other than just slap us with embargos without enquiring into the situation properly. Or at least as far as I know anyway.
 
Maybe not properly, probably a poor choice of words. At least the EFL can acknowledge a problem with a club when it arises.

The NL have done nothing other than just slap us with embargos without enquiring into the situation properly. Or at least as far as I know anyway.
You have made a good point there, I think. The EFL under Parry is a much more proactive organisation than it ever was under Harvey, who went to extraordinary lengths NOT to regulate.

My main gripe with the EFL these days is that they are too slow ; Derby, for example, whilst it was a very complex case, was allowed to drag on for so long that ultimately other clubs lost faith in the process.

He (Parry) was pretty interesting at House of Commons Select Committee on Tuesday.
 
I thought it was common knowledge that rent is "charged" but never collected. It's shown as a debt to Ron in the accounts, so that if the club goes into administration he is the number one creditor.
It is but that doesn’t stop the same people posting the same crap I’m afraid - for your own sanity you need to ignore it.
 
Out of interest Why then do the accounts for one year alone ( 2017) show a charge of £850,000 for rents and Management costs. ( £425,000 ) and how do you attribute the value we received from that?
I suppose the value is that we will probably never end up paying it, despite it sitting on the club accounts.

Lets not blindly assume its great benevolence though. Having it on the balance sheet helps him out. As already alluded to, makes him the main creditor in the event of administration. Plus having large debtors on the balance sheets of the creditors helps to keep them looking mildly like they're still a going concern. All paper debt, innit?
 
Great work by the supporters groups for making this happen. I do feel he's reacting to the fact the we're not prepared to pay for the season cards in advance. He's desperate for the £'s and probably relies on us paying this early to prop up the funds until the end of the season. Saying that, trying to make us feel bad for delaying these payments is typical Ron. Never his fault is it. Let's push the blame onto the peasants !

I think the most worrying part is that the new owners have to run with the 3 sided stadium, followed by the 4th side (am I reading that properly ?). What if it's a big organisation that wants to do a "proper" job. Start from fresh, with a new stadium design and built the whole thing in one go ?

Will I be renewing my season card ? Not yet !! I fully understand it damages the club's cashflow, but Ron still hasn't given me confidence that he can carry this through. We need a new owner immediately, and in order to do that I think he needs to start offering the more lucrative sides of the "opportunty", not just a debt ridden football club and shell of a stadium with very few revenue streams.
 
I thought it was common knowledge that rent is "charged" but never collected. It's shown as a debt to Ron in the accounts, so that if the club goes into administration he is the number one creditor.
And what about the £425, 000 Management charge on top of the rental charge, I trust you do not find that acceptable as well?
 
I suppose the value is that we will probably never end up paying it, despite it sitting on the club accounts.

Lets not blindly assume its great benevolence though. Having it on the balance sheet helps him out. As already alluded to, makes him the main creditor in the event of administration. Plus having large debtors on the balance sheets of the creditors helps to keep them looking mildly like they're still a going concern. All paper debt, innit?
We will never find out about the so called rental charge between £400-£500 annually .For what actually? Im sure we wont be sharing any in voices.
And then there is on top a £425,000 Management costs charge. £125,00 to DIRECTORS paid out, thats not a paper exercise and another £300,000 what for exactly?
Still good old Ron isnt really charging any of this is he , the wondrous benevolent soul that he is
 
Because:

A. The club is now putting the onus on the fans to rescue the club financially, which is tantamount to blackmail.

B. We have all been supporting the club with season card sales for the last few seasons and still find ourselves embargoed anyway.

C. Ron told us directly that the bridging loan would stabilise the club and yet people still aren't paid and we remain under an embargo. It's clear he got nowhere near the amount he actually wanted.

I won't buy a season card with him in charge. I have no faith at all that even with season cards selling well, we would not find ourselves infront of the court again facing winding up charges.

If a new owner comes in, I'll be at the front of the queue to buy a new increased price season card.
Brilliant post and beautifully summed up 🙏
 
Its always made sense that the season ticket money pays for the costs in the close season, and then daily tickets / corporate bookings for boxes etc then helps to pay for the costs on a monthly basis.

Even with my basic guestimate of the numbers in each category its not in the millions and only helps the club to cover costs for a couple of months (3-4 at most)

I've also assumed that everyone buys at the early bird price, so the figures could be more if people purchase after the early bird. I have probably been a little generous in the number sold in each category but not knowing past purchase history its hard to guestimate.

View attachment 25780

I know that in previous seasons Tom has alluded to the fact that the credit card companies have drip fed monies paid via credit card to them on a game by game basis (mostly during Covid, but I believe it happened in the 21/22 season and thus the request last year for the 22/23 season to make payment by bank transfer or cash.

I assume that the club have struck an agreement with their card merchant provider that allows them to access the monies as required, rather than the club being fed up to £14.78 per game by the merchant provider as and when the games are played.

Anyone in doubt can make a payment by credit card and your covered by Section 75.

Section 75 means that if you pay for something costing over £100 and less than £30,000 on credit, the lender's equally liable (along with the retailer) if something goes wrong. The law's clear on this – you get the protection for the whole cost of an item or service, even if you only pay for a part of it on credit. As long as the items costs over £100 or less than £30,000, you'll be covered for the full amount, even if you only pay 1p of it on your credit card.

Anyone buying a Young Person or above card would be fine and if the club did fold, you would be able to obtain a refund from the card provider if the club do not refund. Note that its on an item basis, not the total value of the payment. So a junior season ticket would not be covered as its under £100 (even though the total payment may have come to more if other season tickets where purchased)


I was holding off until the club came to the table and answered the questions put to them. Now they have engaged and had a meeting I'll be purchasing mine in the coming days.
Blimey Ron does it again. Not arguing with your points but have you taken in to account the number of times he has pulled similar stunts in the past and told everyone exactly what they want to hear?

He has made promises that never materialise and done the "I put millions of pounds of my own money in and will never let the club die" so many times 🤦

Good luck to you 👍 personally I have been lied to once too often and I don't believe a word that's been said, where's the evidence and guarantee (not promise because he has broken them too many times to remember)?

If he pays the hard working staff and clears the embargo I will consider buying a season ticket but have you actually done the maths? Even if everyone stumps up the early bird ticket it doesn't amount to half of what is still owed to HMRC so how he is ever going to pay the staff, keep us solvent and clear the embargo?

Well don't Ron you have spun it brilliantly and people are believing you yet again 👏👏👏
 
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