The troublesome third and fourth places...

[Matt the Shrimp]

So, folks, poll time: it's time for the collective wisdom of ShrimperZone to come to the rescue of the England selectors.

Who do we pick to fill the troublesome third and fourth spots in the England batting line up? The above six names have been bandied around... so, who do we pick? Or do you have a better suggestion?

I've gone with Key at 3 and Bopara at 4. Key has the sort of mental obduracy that we are going to need in spades if we've got any chance of turning things around at the Oval. Ravi has struggled at first man down, but I still believe he has the ability and the mental strength to cope at this level. We'll see, I guess.

Sadly, I think Headingley will prove a late epitaph to Bell's test career. He simply doesn't appear to have the grit required at this level - albeit that being pitched into the middle of an Ashes series is about as big a hospital pass as you might fear to get. And as for Ramprakash... well, it's only Surrey old boy Alec Stewart who seems to be clamouring for his reinstatement to the Test side. Maybe you think it should be Marcus "Banger" Trescothick - despite him having bared his demons so publicly in his recent autobiography. Or perhaps Trott's average this season (92, from memory) gives him an unanswerable case for inclusion - despite him being a Saffer who has never played a Test match before.

So, good people of SZ.com - what do you think? When answering the above poll, please pick only two answers.

Matt

 

[The Flying Scotsman]

Where's the Trescothick option?

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Where's the Trescothick option?

Good point - I'll add him.

Matt

 

[The Flying Scotsman]

What about the Bring back Beefy campaign?

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

What about the Bring back Beefy campaign?

Hmm... isn't he on an elephant somewhere, eating Shredded Wheat?

:p

No, we'll leave it at those 6. If you want anyone else, tick "other" and say who in the text.

 

[BILLERICAY BLUE]

I agree Matt, Key and Bopara for me. Bell's had his chance (and some), whereas I think Bopara is the most naturally gifted young batter we have. I'd like to see him given a run of 15-20 tests and judge him then.

I hope he gets a big score against Middlesex this week.

One other option maybe Hildreth at Somerset, although his average is inflated by playing on the road that is Taunton. Langer really rates him.....

 

[number11]

If all were available Id got for Tres and Ramps. No career on the line to worry about, their reputations (at varying ends of the test spectrum) wont be damaged irrespective of the results (and in Ramps case it could give him that piece of acclaim he has been missing from test cricket). Neither would be playing for a place on future tours or for future endorsements or IPL contracts etc, and both old and experienced enough to get on with the job.

However, Tres has retired and so I dont think he would answer the call even if he was asked. I'd therefore throw in Ramprakash for the reasons above, and then its a close call between Key and Bopara. I think Bopara striding out to the crease will be under more pressure than Key and therefore would go for Key at 3, Ramps at 4. Whilst telling RAvi he is guaranteed his spot on the tour to south africa. Collingwood just escaping due to his experience and being able to pull it out the bag when his test career is on the line.

 

[The Flying Scotsman]

The one player who must defintely be dropped is Bell. Think it says a lot that our bottom 5 have made almost as many runs as our top 5.

 

[canveyshrimper]

If Trescothick would make himself available for tests at home and abroad then he should be in the side with Strauss moving down to three where he has been successful for England in the past.

Opting for Ramprakash is laughable and smacks of the old England selection policy when such as Dexter, Close, Steele, Edrich, Cowdrey etc have been dragged out of quiet county cricket. The problem with Ramprakash is that his record is nowhere near as good as these, even Close.

Trescothick won't IMO make himself available therefore I would go for Key at three and Bopara at four. I'm more than aware that Ravi has had two shocking decisions in this series so far.

Therefore my team for the Oval would be.

Strauss
Cook
Key
Bopara
Collingwood
Prior
Flintoff
Broad
Swann
Anderson
Harmison

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

If Trescothick would make himself available for tests at home and abroad then he should be in the side with Strauss moving down to three where he has been successful for England in the past.

Opting for Ramprakash is laughable and smacks of the old England selection policy when such as Dexter, Close, Steele, Edrich, Cowdrey etc have been dragged out of quiet county cricket. The problem with Ramprakash is that his record is nowhere near as good as these, even Close.

Trescothick won't IMO make himself available therefore I would go for Key at three and Bopara at four. I'm more than aware that Ravi has had two shocking decisions in this series so far.

Therefore my team for the Oval would be.

Strauss
Cook
Key
Bopara
Collingwood
Prior
Flintoff
Broad
Swann
Anderson
Harmison

Agree with all of that; however, isn't that a bit harsh on Onions, who has done reasonably well this series? I'd say it was between him and Swann for the last place, depending on the surface.

Matt

 

[Grayson]

The obvious answer here would be to include members of Essex's highly successful top order, who are scoring bucket loads. Therefore get John Maunders in at 3 and Matt Walker or Jason Gallian at 4.

 

[canveyshrimper]

Agree with all of that; however, isn't that a bit harsh on Onions, who has done reasonably well this series? I'd say it was between him and Swann for the last place, depending on the surface.

Matt

It is a bit harsh on Onions, but I opted for Harmison as the Oval tends to offer more in bounce than most other English tracks apart from Old Trafford. The last spot is probably between Broad and Onions as I don't see England going into a test match without a spinner.

 

[Stats]

I'd roll out Key at 3 and Trott at 4, could do with injecting the side with two players who are in the runs and in a fresh mind set to face the Aussies.

Bell doesnt have it when it comes to facing the top sides or having to scrap so he's got to go.

Sadly for me Bopara as well, for now purely to give the guy a break. I believe he will come good for England but at number 5 or 6 where he can play his strokes.

Moving him down the order just for this test match would be a mistake I mean can you imagine whe he strides out to bat at either 4 or 5, the Aussie players remarking ''here comes the sheila who couldnt hack it at 3''. The Aussies well and truely have his number in this series.

Strauss
Cook
Key
Trott
Collingwood
Prior
Flintoff
Broad
Swann
Anderson
Sidebottom

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Sadly for me Bopara as well, for now purely to give the guy a break. I believe he will come good for England but at number 5 or 6 where he can play his strokes.

I think you may be right, Stats. Playing at 3 for Essex, Ravi scored 1 run in 7 balls before being snaffled by Tim Murtagh. Cook only made 4 before falling to the same bowler as well.

Right now, it does all rather have the feel of rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic. **** it... I vote Key & Ramps. Let's just give it a go - we'll probably lose anyway, but let's have a laugh while doing so.

:'(

Matt

 

[Clinton Baptiste]

Im an essex fan through and through but sorry Bopara is in wretched form. Bell and Collingwood's careers should be over but sadly Colly will hang around in the hope he does his one big knock per series (despite single figures in nearly all the other innings). Colly will stay as hes one of the old boys club. Think Key will come in at 3, and Trott in for Bell at 4. I'd be tempted to move Prior up to 5. Probably been our best batsman in the series. I think Cook needs to improve massively also.

 

[SUFC Forever]

Jesus - Key at 3 and Bopara at 4? We may as well give the ashes to Australia now.

Typical that this is an Essex forum - everywhere else all can see that Bopara is so far out of his depth in this series that it is embarressing. I hope to God that the selectors drop both Bell and Bopara and replace them with the best player in county cricket, Mark Ramprakash and now that Trescothick has been ruled out, I suppose Key, though rumour has it that Flower does not rate him for whatever reason.

Something has to be done and a middle order who contribute 16 runs from 6 completed knocks cannot be allowed to remain come what may.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

Looks like Tresco is open to a return....

http://www.skysports.com/cricket/ashes/story/0,26376,12340_5486113,00.html

I would drop Cook for Tresco for one game only and also bring in Key and Trott for Ravi and Bell. I know it might not be good for our Essex Boys' confidence but this is The Ashes for Christ's sake and we just have to win!!!!!

 

[canveyshrimper]

Jesus - Key at 3 and Bopara at 4? We may as well give the ashes to Australia now.

Typical that this is an Essex forum - everywhere else all can see that Bopara is so far out of his depth in this series that it is embarressing. I hope to God that the selectors drop both Bell and Bopara and replace them with the best player in county cricket, Mark Ramprakash and now that Trescothick has been ruled out, I suppose Key, though rumour has it that Flower does not rate him for whatever reason.

Something has to be done and a middle order who contribute 16 runs from 6 completed knocks cannot be allowed to remain come what may.

Mark Ramprakash may well be the best player in county cricket. However it's test cricket and an average of 27 in 52 tests is abysmal. It's a retrograde step calling on Ramprakash, I'd rather go for someone like Hildreth or Denly. Rob Key IMO will get the number 3 spot whether the selectors retain Bopara, Bell or even Collingwood for that matter remains to be seen.

 

[Shrimper]

Ramprakash would only be brought back for a romance role, he's not that good anymore. Bopara is poor, he's a good batsmen but he just get's ripped apart by the Aussies pace and shouldn't even feature. Ian Bell should also be dropped, he was only filling in for Flintoff. Drop Bell, Bopara and Cook and bring in Key, Trott and Flintoff.

 

[Stats]

Not even myself as a Surrey fan would like to see Ramprakash in for this match. Yes he has improved as a batsman since he moved to Surrey in the early 2000's but England have continued to overlook him. To be honest his last stint in International cricket wasnt that bad and he shouldnt of been disguarded so easily but he was and thats history.

As of now the England selectors have a pool of players in their minds and they should pick from that. I mean for instance we cant be having this conversation every time a test series is close. Players need to stand up and be counted and this is no exception.