Transfer Embargo, Winding Up Petition & Staff Salary Issues

[rigsby]

Bottom line, he hasn't been able to get the finance in place for the last 20 years. You only have to look at the amount of stadium projects that have been completed elsewhere around the country in the same time period to know that the economic downturn/s cannot be solely to blame for this ridiculous and nigh on fatal delay.

The credit score of SUFC and group companies is through the floor.

Its Councils not owners of football club who decide what, when and how things will be built.

The supermarket scheme was already in place and continued right up until about 2014. Sainsbury's also did the same to Bristol R. Just like us half their town and council support someone else. Thats why we don't have a new stadium and neither do Bristol R

Our council also deliberately blocked the commercial option under BL. They are the ones who wanted it changed to houses. The downturn in 2009 is a myth that has grown amongst fans. Downturns don't effect Sainsbury's, they just never wanted a store at RH. Which is why they were extending the town centre store whilst pulling out of buying a crucial bit of land next to RH.....I think it was seven times they stalled so in the end it was sold to someone else.

 

[Stan33]

Even if we were to sell any of our players in January, am I right in assuming that any transfer fee would not be paid in full, at the time of any transfer. Therefore while we may receive a portion of the fee up front, it probably would not be enough to pay off a large chunk of tax owed. Is this a correct reasoning?

No me thinks that if u sell u set the rules ie money up front !

 

[BoyWonder2]

Even if we were to sell any of our players in January, am I right in assuming that any transfer fee would not be paid in full, at the time of any transfer. Therefore while we may receive a portion of the fee up front, it probably would not be enough to pay off a large chunk of tax owed. Is this a correct reasoning?

Nowadays, 95% of transfers involving a transfer fee, are paid over the duration of the players contract.

So for example, if we sold a player for £100k in January, and he signs a three year deal at his new Club, we’d negotiate a certain fee upfront, and the remaining to be paid in instalments at pre-agreed points (maybe January and Summer) over the duration of that contract. If that player moves onto a new Club during his three years, you would still have the pay the fee.

We have had that before when we have sold a player, we have received money from the buying club, whilst that player is no longer there, and we’ve also done it the other way round where we are paying for a player no longer with us.

 

[Whispering Bob]

Personally I don’t see why we don’t just get rid of the youth set up. Firstly we don’t have any top players coming through on a regular basis and secondly we don’t get any decent fees for any of these players. Sayers £50k is the last one I can remember and that was him going to a premier league team who pay players more than that per week who don’t even get on their bench. Who was before that and how many have we had in the last 10 years?

Finley Burns? Sold to Man City as a 13 year-old for 175k (which could rise to 250k).

 

[BoyWonder2]

Personally I don’t see why we don’t just get rid of the youth set up. Firstly we don’t have any top players coming through on a regular basis and secondly we don’t get any decent fees for any of these players. Sayers £50k is the last one I can remember and that was him going to a premier league team who pay players more than that per week who don’t even get on their bench. Who was before that and how many have we had in the last 10 years? I would suspect we haven’t made a profit on money pumped in to the youth team from youth team players sold over that same period. Not having to fund the youth team would reduce our overhead costs and make us more sustainable. Personally I feel we need to start looking down this route as a handful of teams seem to now be doing (if I’m correct Brentford are a team that are doing this currently).

There is so much wrong with this post.

Dan Bentley & Jack Payne are more recent examples of players who were established with us, and went on to make names for themselves. Nathan Bishop to Man United (on the bench on Sunday again), Jack Bridge has now come good for us, after a spell away.

I believe @Exiled Shrimper is the man who can help out with the details on the revenue our youth team has brought in through player sales.

 

[Shrimper]

Personally I don’t see why we don’t just get rid of the youth set up. Firstly we don’t have any top players coming through on a regular basis and secondly we don’t get any decent fees for any of these players. Sayers £50k is the last one I can remember and that was him going to a premier league team who pay players more than that per week who don’t even get on their bench. Who was before that and how many have we had in the last 10 years? I would suspect we haven’t made a profit on money pumped in to the youth team from youth team players sold over that same period. Not having to fund the youth team would reduce our overhead costs and make us more sustainable. Personally I feel we need to start looking down this route as a handful of teams seem to now be doing (if I’m correct Brentford are a team that are doing this currently).

Would be very poor

We've had a long list of players come through over the years. The overall net cost is negligble with sales;


Kelman, Sayers, Bentley, Bishop, Finley-Burns, Yearwood, Coker are all players we've sold for good reward.

Bwomono, Gard, Phillips, Acquah, Seaden, Smith, Egbri, Kinali, Mitchell-Nelson, Clifford, Rush, Benton, Howard all players that have come through over the past few years

It would be more expensive in terms of the squad if we didn't have a Youth Academy

 

[Fairport]

Don't know if true or not but heard we owe the coach company £20k. Anyone confirm?

Probably true. Lots of local businesses are owed money by this owner. Who would want to do business with any of Ron Martins companies.

 

[undercovershrimper]

I know Ron knocked the stationery firm we use at work for at least 5k, Rich the owner stopped chasing after a year or so

 

[CMRandall92]

There is so much wrong with this post.

Dan Bentley & Jack Payne are more recent examples of players who were established with us, and went on to make names for themselves. Nathan Bishop to Man United (on the bench on Sunday again), Jack Bridge has now come good for us, after a spell away.

I believe @Exiled Shrimper is the man who can help out with the details on the revenue our youth team has brought in through player sales.

I too hate the idea of doing away with the Youth academy, the romanticist in me loves the idea of our own homegrown kicking on to make amazing careers for themselves... But you'd be amazed how much we've lost on having it up and running this past decade-longer. Business wise it is a no-brainer to scrap. But I really don't want that to be the case.

Would be very poor

We've had a long list of players come through over the years. The overall net cost is negligble with sales;


Kelman, Sayers, Bentley, Bishop, Finley-Burns, Yearwood, Coker are all players we've sold for good reward.

Bwomono, Gard, Phillips, Acquah, Seaden, Smith, Egbri, Kinali, Mitchell-Nelson, Clifford, Rush, Benton, Howard all players that have come through over the past few years

It would be more expensive in terms of the squad if we didn't have a Youth Academy

Elvis, Gard, Phillips, Acquah, Seaden, Smith, Egbri, Kinali, Mitchell-Nelson, Rush, Howard all horrible examples. Think how much we've (supposed) spent on them over the years as a club compared to their returns.

Final sentence is an interesting point and perhaps the only one that keeps it somewhat alive today.

 

[londonblue]

Personally I don’t see why we don’t just get rid of the youth set up. Firstly we don’t have any top players coming through on a regular basis and secondly we don’t get any decent fees for any of these players. Sayers £50k is the last one I can remember and that was him going to a premier league team who pay players more than that per week who don’t even get on their bench. Who was before that and how many have we had in the last 10 years? I would suspect we haven’t made a profit on money pumped in to the youth team from youth team players sold over that same period. Not having to fund the youth team would reduce our overhead costs and make us more sustainable. Personally I feel we need to start looking down this route as a handful of teams seem to now be doing (if I’m correct Brentford are a team that are doing this currently).

Isaac Haydn made us a over a million I'm led to believe.

 

[sufc4life21]

We may not have a choice other than to close the youth set up down, regardless to our views on the academy..... doesn't the efl funding stop this year anyway?

 

[Holy Joe]

Isn't this year the last year of any funding from the EFL for the academy?

 

[Shrimper]

I too hate the idea of doing away with the Youth academy, the romanticist in me loves the idea of our own homegrown kicking on to make amazing careers for themselves... But you'd be amazed how much we've lost on having it up and running this past decade-longer. Business wise it is a no-brainer to scrap. But I really don't want that to be the case.



Elvis, Gard, Phillips, Acquah, Seaden, Smith, Egbri, Kinali, Mitchell-Nelson, Rush, Howard all horrible examples. Think how much we've (supposed) spent on them over the years as a club compared to their returns.

Final sentence is an interesting point and perhaps the only one that keeps it somewhat alive today.

Point is, the first have been sold and paid for the rest. If we didn't have a youth academy we would not have those players and would have to sign from elsewhere which would cost more

 

[CanveyCastle]

Point is, the first have been sold and paid for the rest. If we didn't have a youth academy we would not have those players and would have to sign from elsewhere which would cost more

or we get everyone else's crap on free transfers.

 

[CMRandall92]

I know, but that's where you're very very wrong. Those sales don't touch the sides of the expense of running the Youth academy. Not even remotely close.

Point is, the first have been sold and paid for the rest. If we didn't have a youth academy we would not have those players and would have to sign from elsewhere which would cost more

 

[tommy tucker]

Personally I don’t see why we don’t just get rid of the youth set up. Firstly we don’t have any top players coming through on a regular basis and secondly we don’t get any decent fees for any of these players. Sayers £50k is the last one I can remember and that was him going to a premier league team who pay players more than that per week who don’t even get on their bench. Who was before that and how many have we had in the last 10 years? I would suspect we haven’t made a profit on money pumped in to the youth team from youth team players sold over that same period. Not having to fund the youth team would reduce our overhead costs and make us more sustainable. Personally I feel we need to start looking down this route as a handful of teams seem to now be doing (if I’m correct Brentford are a team that are doing this currently).

Am i right in saying once the mones comeing in from the drop out of the leauge .Which i beleve is the end of this season .Then surely there will not be a need for the youth set up unless we get promoted .Then that will be differant .

 

[Shrimperjohn]

I think you are spot on. Right now if you owe a lot of money the future will be very challenging and some will be going to the wall. None of us have any idea how much or how little actual money Ron has but he might have a task ahead of him.

Since taking over the club Ron has clearly been motivated by a wish to develop the Club's assets in a way that delivers him a financial windfall. That is what property developers do, and, while those who love the club might not like it, the time to protest and take action was when he took over and not twenty years later.

Having said (and I now risk being labelled a plant and/or stooge) despite his financial ambitions I do not believe that Ron has ever been indifferent to the fate of the football club. He has done as well as he knows how but along the way lack of money has sometimes left him with few alternatives, most of them bad.

In football no one is guaranteed success, and, even financially stable clubs can endure years of poor results. Colchester seem to pay everyone on time but on the field now look not unlike us in our last two seasons in the Football League.

Apart from very few players and their agents few people become rich from football, or. from 'investing. in it. Even if Ron was put up the club for sale tomorrow debt free and with a three sided stadium I doubt if it would attract much interest. Some clubs will always attract buyers but Southend is not one of them, and, once its assets have been developed it seems unrealistic to me to believe any kind of well heeled 'investor' would be rushing to buy. Unless the next Zuckerburg/Soros/Gates is a Blues supporter we will continue to find life a struggle.

On top of his many failings Ron also seems to be unlucky. He almost got his dream over the line in 2009 but was undone by the GFC. Now it seems that the consequences of post covid, war in Ukraine and uncertainty regarded the reliability and cost of future energy supply have produced a financial climate which make the realisation of his dreams impossible. Four years ago finding a bridging loan or what ever else needs to be in place to pay HMRC would probably have been well within his means and abilities. Now it will be much harder, and, could even be impossible.

Can he do it and secure his great stadium dream? I am not sure he can. If he does it will be some achievement although I suspect that few will give him any credit for it.

This is a great post as it highlights the fact that in business timing is everything. Whilst I can’t condone how the club has been run it does appear that when the really big projects have been close to fruition the financial markets have totally moved against him. Financial crash 2008/ 2009, Covid and how the disastrous Liz Truss mini budget that has not only made the cost of borrowing more expensive but also made bridging finance more difficult to secure. If he hadn’t lined up the bridging finance 8 weeks ago he’ll find a vastly changed borrowing appetite now. You make your own luck I guess....

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Its Councils not owners of football club who decide what, when and how things will be built.

The supermarket scheme was already in place and continued right up until about 2014. Sainsbury's also did the same to Bristol R. Just like us half their town and council support someone else. Thats why we don't have a new stadium and neither do Bristol R

Our council also deliberately blocked the commercial option under BL. They are the ones who wanted it changed to houses. The downturn in 2009 is a myth that has grown amongst fans. Downturns don't effect Sainsbury's, they just never wanted a store at RH. Which is why they were extending the town centre store whilst pulling out of buying a crucial bit of land next to RH.....I think it was seven times they stalled so in the end it was sold to someone else.

Bristol Rovers have had historical problems about moving to a new stadium a long time before 2014 (as have we of course).Imagine that's why I saw them playing at Bath City's ground against us back in the 90's (one of Stan's first away games that).

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Personally I don’t see why we don’t just get rid of the youth set up. Firstly we don’t have any top players coming through on a regular basis and secondly we don’t get any decent fees for any of these players. Sayers £50k is the last one I can remember and that was him going to a premier league team who pay players more than that per week who don’t even get on their bench. Who was before that and how many have we had in the last 10 years? I would suspect we haven’t made a profit on money pumped in to the youth team from youth team players sold over that same period. Not having to fund the youth team would reduce our overhead costs and make us more sustainable. Personally I feel we need to start looking down this route as a handful of teams seem to now be doing (if I’m correct Brentford are a team that are doing this currently).

FFS two of the current starting XI came through the academy.

If it wasn’t for the money we’d made on Yearwood, Bentley, Payne, Ferdinand, Sayers, Kelman etc who were flogged to pay bills would we even still have a club?

That doesn’t even include those who were sold before they made the first team - Iorfa, Hayden, Murray-Jones, Burns, John etc

 

[Shrimper]

I know, but that's where you're very very wrong. Those sales don't touch the sides of the expense of running the Youth academy. Not even remotely close.

They certainly help though. We got £175k for Finley-Burns alone